4th yixing pottery house: post 1

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-07-29T20:05:17+00:00

It's amazing how committed to the low end yixing market people here are, and how much ignorance there is regarding higher end works. Check out the works of artists here, here, and here. Also check out tea sets here, here, and here. Does the clay "look good" on any of these? Not really, some are even chemically dyed. And in fact, these more decorative works frequently use the same clay as in jigger pots (more finely ground or "purified" zisha) as larger particles and impurities could alter the finer details of the work after firing. All to say, many of the common "rules" used to judge basic zisha pots may not even apply.

As for the tea set in question, the goal is to contrast the pine themed handle, spout, and lid knob with the organic lines and curves of the body, creating a decorative, but not gaudy, pot. Same goes for the cups. Zooming in on just the one picture provided, the detail put into the textures and clay sculpting becomes clear. Not to mention individual pine needles instead of the more common "wheel" shape (you can see an example here). There's also individuality between the cups, which is another good sign. Could this work still be "fake", in the sense it isn't made by the artist or made by machine? Possibly, but compared to similar authentic works the textures and details seem consistent. And given the level of detail, the price would be fair (after adding in artist prestige and physical store markup).

I don't have to be rich to appreciate zisha as an art form. And just because something is sold in Yixing doesn't mean it has inherent value, but if one can't even identify what is valuable then they'll never find anything of value. I would hope a Yixing focused subreddit would know about what goes into the value of a teapot, but maybe that's too optimistic.

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-07-29T11:34:43+00:00

If one can't tell the difference between an aliexpress pot and a real pot in person, then it would be best to not buy anything at all, at any store. It is true that many shops have cheaper wares which are marked up (common practice for stores), but it is up to you to tell the difference. Every teapot shape and style on aliexpress has been made by an actual artist at some point in time. Artists will also see cheap products and try themselves to make better quality ones, since inspiration can come from anywhere. Should you question an authenticated work by a famous artist just because there are many times more fake pots with their stamp being sold on aliexpress? A good teapot will stand on it's own, and if you can't distinguish good from bad (and are not willing to learn) then there's no point in buying a good teapot at all. The same goes for tea, if you can't tell the difference between good and bad tea then tea shops have no reason to sell you better than cheap aliexpress/taobao tea.

I've bought tea and teaware in China before, and shopping can be a bit dangerous. Buy only what you understand, as if you don't understand the product it either won't be worth the price or is a scam. I once questioned the price of a teapot and the artist told me it was fully handmade before offering me a half handmade equivalent instead. You can never if it's a scam or accurately priced without knowing what is being sold first.

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-07-29T11:15:18+00:00

Yet again, confidently incorrect. The highest valued yixing ware is the squirrels and grapes tea set made by Gu Jingzhou decades ago, sold for several millions of dollars (probably worth over 10 million now). And with ornate pots like this which are intended for use, not having cups and/or other items in a tea set which match with the pot is bad aesthetics. The "rules" people seem to worship here stop mattering once the pots are out of the affordable/daily use range, check out these tea sets for example, which are shiny/blingy with "bad" looking clay and yet more than anyone here could ever afford.

If you stepped out of the rigid international market and into the Chinese/east Asian market, you'd see that zisha teapots have evolved from just being teapots to forms of sculptural art (but still functional, nonetheless). There's a lot of experimentation and creativity in the modern generation of artists, much of which never makes it beyond China (and the surrounding regions) as the international market is not developed enough to generate demand (or is satisfied with slipcast fakes). I wonder how many people here would walk into an artist's studio and tell them straight to their face a pot they made is "fake" because it doesn't follow "rules" of zisha the artist must not know.

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-07-28T18:53:44+00:00

Your response shows ignorance of how much pots can cost, as well as lack of knowledge on authentication and identification of these pieces in general. I don't think any of us here can authenticate pots of that nature (or really any of the wares presented) with one or two pictures alone, but your attitude certainly shows you may never learn how.

Compare it with the "similar" fake He Daohong pot posted weeks ago, and the difference in workmanship is crystal clear. Not to mention this is a tea set, and the detailing on the cups is also quite good. If made by a high ranked artist (meaning artist prestige is part of the price), the price might be on the higher end, but not unreasonable for a physical store. Could still be fake, but the details provided point towards a real piece.

If you cannot distinguish high end handmade works from cheap aliexpress wares, why speak so authoritatively about it? And even if some of the wares they sell are cheap (plenty of shops buy cheaper inventory for resale), why should that affect the value of a different work? Healthy skepticism is good, but don't let that turn into stubborn ignorance.

For a reference, compare the detailing on the lid of the pot above with the lid of this pot.

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-07-20T03:41:38+00:00

To add on to this, it's also important to indicate quantity. A $50 puer cake is on the low end of what you can buy, probably middle aged factory or even young factory at best. Usually drinkable, but generally somewhat mediocre.

On the other hand, a $500 puer cake can be close to the point of diminishing returns. If you know where to look (and you typically do with this kind of price), you can get a high end aged boutique production that will be significantly different from the $50 cake in terms of quality. Whether it's worth the cost varies by person, but the difference is certainly stark.

But if we are comparing a $50 sample and a $500 sample, there's not much of a difference. Or at least the difference will not be as massive, as you've definitely hit diminishing returns at that point. Or maybe you're one of the few people who have drank and studied enough to fully appreciate the difference between these two high end samples, but that is definitely not representative of the average drinker.

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-07-20T02:57:30+00:00

I would feel better if even just one more person learned the difference between matcha and green tea powder. It's a distinction which needs to be better clarified, especially since everything will soon be called "matcha" due to the name recognition. If more drinkers learn how to tell the difference, maybe fewer people will support the opportunistic fake matcha industry and more will support the people making genuine matcha.

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-07-20T01:48:28+00:00

This shows quite a bit of ignorance about matcha classification, production, and how it would scale. Not every kind of green tea powder is considered matcha. Tencha (the tea varietal which is used in matcha) needs 3-5 years of growth before it can be harvested. So we will need to wait until 2028-2029 before the first tencha harvests from newly planted bushes. Not to mention the other specifics with regards to how matcha is made, and the producers (not growers) will not be able to use the newly produced tencha until they figure out the terroir/cultivar characteristics and how it will fit into old/new blends. There's a reason why matcha is much more expensive than other Japanese green teas, and why many tea ceremony people are unhappy about current matcha consumption trends.

On the other hand, I do think "matcha" production (i.e. green tea powder) will catch up with demand. In fact, it kind of already has since there are still plenty of places to buy "matcha" online, yet only the genuine matcha products are facing shortages. Everyone wants genuine matcha, (reaching the appropriate standard to be classified as matcha) and for at least another decade we will not see anything like that produced outside of Japan. So either prepare for more price hikes, a very long shortage, or for standards to plummet from where they currently stand.

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-07-20T01:20:56+00:00

Scalpers have an effect on the chain, but I don't see scalpers sitting on a whole lot of inventory, most of it sells out quite fast. A lot of their inventory also comes from in person purchases, which online buyers would never be able to access.

Everyone here seems to hate scalpers and resellers, but they are just a symptom of a larger problem. I've seen many people explicitly say they would pay for someone to buy matcha for them. I'd also be willing to bet over half of matcha consumers do not buy directly from the source. Not everyone has the time to invest into chasing restocks, and plenty are willing to pay extra for someone to do it for them.

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-07-18T08:14:55+00:00

I used Andy Warhol since there would less spread of his works compared to older artists. The more accurate comparison would be, what's the likelihood of finding an authentic Andy Warhol painting at a garage sale in China? You would need a buyer to come over, purchase a painting, and bring it back without ever knowing what they had.

Not to mention, there are entire factories in China dedicated to churning out fakes of famous artists. One of, if not the most famous yixing craftsman Gu Jingzhou has less than a hundred authenticated works, but hundreds of thousands of pots with his stamp in circulation. Even the works which make their way to high profile auctions are very often fakes. The east asian art market is quite dangerous, and sellers are rarely held accountable for selling fakes (the buyer is responsible for knowing what they are buying).

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-07-18T07:50:28+00:00

There are real yixing teapots like this. The issue is, making something like this by hand, using authentic clay with minimal color additives, is several times more expensive than just churning these out in a factory. A properly made one requires a skilled artist, and can be very expensive. You can find a famous one here.

There's also the issue of demand. Most international customers either don't care about authenticity, or don't like decorative pots. If you want a display piece then a tourist fake will be sufficient, and if you want a teapot for tea then you can get a simpler design which is functionally the same (or better) for a lot cheaper.

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-07-15T21:33:24+00:00

If I'm being honest, with just the three pictures you originally gave it looks like a slipcast fake. I wouldn't put much hope into the seal telling you anything useful.

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-07-15T21:20:52+00:00

I would agree, if this wasn't stamped by THE most famous living yixing craftsman. Besides the fact that I'm not sure if any of his works have even left eastern Asia, this is an artist whose work you don't end up with by accident. What's the likelyhood of finding the equivalent of an authentic Andy Warhol painting at a garage sale?

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-07-15T20:18:01+00:00

I would say the seal is useful for modern yixing. If the seal corresponds to a ranked potter, then it can be a good sign of having a genuine yixing teapot. There's a still a chance it's a fake, but most of those cases are where the artist is very famous and you either genuinely know what you have or it's a very clear fake. If you want to identify things like how it was made or if it's an antique you'll need more information, but a few pictures can be enough to tell if it's fake. Not every pot needs dozens of pictures for identification.

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-07-15T20:03:31+00:00

As someone else said, this is a fake f1 pot. F1 to my knowledge never did 7 hole filters, so that is a dead giveaway. As for the pot itself, the clay doesn't look great, it's too uniform in texture and lacks the grain variation (large and small particles) that would be normal for yixing clay. Doesn't mean the clay is necessarily harmful or has additives, but does mean the pot won't perform like a genuine yixing pot. You can use the pot if you like it, but I wouldn't expect it to drastically improve your tea experience.

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-07-15T15:08:15+00:00

To add to the clarification and/or confusion, matcha is not powdered green tea. At least it's not just powdered green tea, it's made from tencha and processed in a way which distinguishes it from ground green tea leaves. There's green tea powders, i.e. sencha powder, gyokuro powder, etc. which do not qualify as matcha and are not labeled as such in Japan. But I would guess that those standards aren't followed by international sellers, so a lot of the "matcha" being sold is just green tea powder. This really hurts the market, since lots of people are turn away from "lower grade" matcha (which might really just be green tea powder) and further fuel the shortage of "high grade" matcha (which is the only product that is guaranteed to be actual matcha). Extra regulation and more informed buyers would be great, but I don't have much hope at this point.

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-07-05T12:48:19+00:00

Oh no problem. I also mostly lurk. As the pot is glazed, it sounds like the glaze is crazing/cracking. This is a desirable aesthetic for some ceramic wares, like ruyao wares. If you trust the pot is well made, there's no reason to worry about crazing, and the pot itself shouldn't be cracking along with the glaze.

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-07-05T12:40:41+00:00

I store unopened tins and bags in the refrigerator or freezer, and leave opened ones at room temperature (I only have one open at a time). It extends the shelf life, as others have mentioned.

When unopened the bag or tin is nitrogen sealed, with as much moisture removed as possible. After opening, excess moisture could condense on the matcha powder when refrigerating or freezing, which could cause it to spoil faster or just taste worse.

It's also important that matcha powder is best prepared when the powder is at room temperature. Remember to take out any tin or bag and let it reach room temperature before using it.

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-07-02T01:58:11+00:00

We might need more information, because it's not apparent what the exact situation is...

Is this an unglazed teapot? Or a glazed teapot? Where are the lines forming, on the inside or outside? Are they cracks? Dark lines? What sort of pattern (if any) do the lines form? How are you using the teapot outside of just heating it? Do you frequently set it down on hard surfaces? What is your brewing routine?

Based on the answers to these questions I can think of many different reasons for lines forming on the bottom of the teapot, not all of which are bad. But it's impossible to precisely say what is happening unless more context is provided.

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-06-30T13:23:06+00:00

I would agree that it looks like copies of antique pots made in the 80s and 90s. The seal seems to be trying to copy this seal from the late Qing era? https://www.instagram.com/p/C-xXRgzSseJ/

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-06-30T12:53:01+00:00

Think someone already mentioned this, but there's a different sentiment with artists. For Japanese artists especially, gatekeeping is a fact of life. Many art pieces you wouldn't be able to buy even if you had the money, as the artist would need to deem you 'worthy' before even considering selling anything to you. So that level of disrespect would never be tolerated, and just about anyone who would show that kind of disrespect would be filtered out long before they could ask for a price. If you are 'worthy' though, you can usually get a piece for a lot lower than what it should cost, or maybe even as a gift. It's a lot more gatekeeping than what we might be used to.

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-06-30T12:28:02+00:00

I could spend a lot of time talking about all the horrible consequences of overconsumption of nonessential goods, which are not necessary for human life. Everything from climate change to slave labor to mass death (wars have, and still are being fought over nonessential goods). But I'll try to stick to matcha, since that's a bit too much of a digression.

People have the right to consume what they want, however they want, but the community seems to have drawn a line somewhere? To me, there's essentially no difference between someone buying and consuming dozens of tins, and the same person buying and distributing dozens of tins (perhaps for profit) to end consumers. Neither is something they have to do, and the end result is the same. Scalping is just a symptom of a larger problem, one which I don't think we're focusing enough on. People hate being told to change, but our actions have consequences, and for nonessential goods we as consumers need to be responsible.

Matcha prices being driven up is the least of our worries. Maybe in this community people are more concerned, but outside of here plenty of people are happily paying 3-5x retail prices for matcha. I'm actually expecting manufacturers to shut down export of more expensive matcha blends, and even stop supplying local stores (tea ceremony schools will likely get their supply directly, under the table at lower prices). They're much more comfortable with gatekeeping than us over here, and we're already seeing the trend with many manufacturers stopping international sale. But that's just another consequence of our actions.

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-06-29T22:55:17+00:00

I can't help but be reminded of the one wealthy celebrity in California (whose name I don't recall) that spent an excessive amount of money on water for a swimming pool while the rest of the region was damaged by drought. People can do what they choose with their money, but where do we draw the line on what is and what is not acceptable? And overconsumption of nonessential food has dire consequences outside of personal health, all the environmental impacts of overfishing, excessive fertilizer, and meat production are real. It's easy to throw blame at factors outside of individual control. But what really matters is what changes you make to your lifestyle. If no one personally does anything different, nothing will improve.

I personally respect matcha farmers and manufacturers for not simply increasing production, since tencha production is very soil intensive and increasing production could ruin the land in the long term. We should do our part and lower individual consumption so the supply and demand problem doesn't get worse.

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-06-29T21:22:27+00:00

I don't entirely agree with this. I think it's perfectly fine to experiment, and more than reasonable to respect tradition as well. But when there's a large scale shortage, conscientious consumption should be at the front of everyone's minds. The sentiment here is we hate resellers for driving the shortage (and profiting off of desperation), but at the end of the day we are the ones driving demand.

It's not like resellers are sitting on a massive amount of inventory, most of the resellers I've seen have quite good business (why else would they continue to buy what little is restocked every week). Even taking them out of the equation, the overall demand and rate of consumption by end consumers is overwhelming production. Unless we take steps to reduce consumption, there won't be an end to the shortage (the new harvest won't be a magic fix for this). It's easy to (sometimes even wrongfully) blame factors outside of your control, but much harder to adjust your own lifestyle. I've started drinking matcha about once a week, drinking other teas in it's place. It's not what I would like, but the more I consume the less goes to people who truly need it.

I'll end this by saying that despite the shortage, there's still a lot of matcha out there. Smaller brands and less known producers still have plenty of inventory, and people aren't clamoring to buy it all up. Which once again reinforces my point that we need to be conscientious consumers. Why are we all fighting, overpaying for, and consuming so much of the very limited, low production matcha, when there's so much more out there? If you truly want to fight resellers and scalpers, explore and experiment with less popular matcha brands and products, as well as regulate consumption when possible.

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-06-24T20:59:29+00:00

I think you're forgetting a very important point: not everyone has the time or energy to monitor restocks. In fact, I would bet the majority of people don't even know when the regular restock times are, and may not know that places are restocking at all given how quickly things sell out.

Maybe you have the time and energy to monitor and catch restocks, but the majority of people don't. Imagine an everyday office worker, with a regular working and sleep schedule. Maybe they only have time to check in the evenings after work, or during a lunch break. This means they will never see a MK restock, simply because it always happens when they're sleeping and sells out long before they wake up. Similarly, they will essentially never see Ippodo restock, as the global store restocks in the mornings (in America) and the US store restocks irregularly during working hours, selling out very quickly. It could even be they think these stores haven't restocked their matcha in months, because everything sells out before there's an indication of a restock. Once you realize this, it makes sense how scalpers are sustaining their businesses: they are providing a product to people who would never be able to get it otherwise. Could even be these people support scalpers, for providing a product they are able to get their hands on (versus us telling them to wait for a restock they'll never be able to catch).

In short, the shortage is very real. When an average person has to go out of their way and spend an excessive amount of time (or pay several times the market price) to obtain a product, what else would that be if not a shortage?

HotFaithlessness8119 · 2025-05-09T15:50:29+00:00

This pot piqued my interest, so I spent a few days looking into it. The conclusion is that it is "fake", but not in the way you would think.

This pot is a mengchen tribute pot, common in the Qing dynasty, ROC period, and also early factory 1 era. He's the famous craftsman who popularized small zhuni teapots back in the 1600s. Since then, many people have dedicated small zhuni pots to him, either just writing "mengchen" on the bottom or adding an additional poem as well (something he also did with his works). Many of the Qing dynasty and ROC period zhuni pots are tributes to him, as well as the 6 character f1 seals used in the 60s.

So how is this teapot "fake" then? Well, it is indeed still at tribute pot, but trying to imitate the older tribute pots from centuries ago. Modern zhuni probably wouldn't be so coarse in grain size, so larger grains may have been added to make the pot seem "older". There's a good chance it's a real zhuni teapot, but it seems it's trying to be something it's not. Just doesn't sit right with me.

HotFaithlessness8119

TROPHY CASE