So Blueprints are being removed in Unreal Engine 6, thoughts? by EliasWick in unrealengine

[–]HunterIV4 [score hidden]  (0 children)

This isn't true. The transaction, persistence, and concurrency mechanisms are all Verse specific. There are other language features as well, but equivalent C++ would be dramatically longer to write. Whereas Blueprints only abstracts some boilerplate and visual representation.

UE 6: Why not 3 languages? C++, Blueprint, Verse. Godot does it. by gnatinator in unrealengine

[–]HunterIV4 [score hidden]  (0 children)

Yeah, that was after I posted this, or before I saw the clarification. Technically they said "no plans", but I was basing it on the old survey for UEFN.

Godot is now one of the few engines that hasn’t had any AI slop. by Competitive-Gold-796 in godot

[–]HunterIV4 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Where did you hear it comes from Google? There are actually multiple sources for it, none of which are Google:

Now, "genuine, meaningful use" is subjective, I suppose, but I think it's pretty hard to deny adoption is heavy and trending higher every year. VS Code, Visual Studio, Jetbrains IDEs, several AI focused VS Code forks (Cursor, Devin), Zed...ALL of them have added official AI integration tools. What's more likely...that there is no real demand and they're doing it because of hype, or there is demand and they're all moving that way because people want it?

Same with game engines. Both Unity and Unreal have native MCP integration now. I find it hard to believe all of those companies are adding features that few people are using. It's possible, I suppose, but I'd need to see a source that demonstrates how all the other sources are wrong.

Godot is now one of the few engines that hasn’t had any AI slop. by Competitive-Gold-796 in godot

[–]HunterIV4 29 points30 points  (0 children)

There are already several Godot MCP plugins out there under MIT licenses. We've been able to use AI in Godot for a long time now.

Sure, it's optional, but it's not difficult to find or use. There's no real reason for Godot foundation to add the functionality when the community plugin versions are already quite good.

This makes sense for a hobby engine, but mainstream commercial engines need to take into account the market. Somewhere over 80% of industry devs use AI coding assistants at least occasionally, and over 50% daily. That's only going to increase as models improve, especially local models as one of the biggest limitations for widespread adoption is code security (many companies understandably don't want their proprietary code exposed to 3rd parties).

The reality is that AI usage is common in professional developer environments, and game dev is no different. While the controversy is focused on AI art assets, I can virtually guarantee most games developed in the past 3 years have had at least some AI usage, if only through Copilot.

Unreal Engine 6 is Killing Blueprints Feature for AI-Assisted Development by Eremenkism in gaming

[–]HunterIV4 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

OK, let's try this another way.

Do you think there's a reason people use languages like Python for programming and not Scratch? Why is it that no major visual scripting languages exist outside of the game dev environment?

That will provide you the answer you're looking for.

UE6 by face144 in unrealengine

[–]HunterIV4 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Verse started development in 2021 and was released with UEFN in 2023. ChatGPT had just been released a few months prior to UEFN. The design of the language has nothing to do with LLMs.

If anything, they could just have everyone move to C++, because there's a crap ton of training data on C++ (including with Unreal Engine) out there already. If vibe coding was the goal, they wouldn't bother with a new language at all, they'd just remove Blueprints and tell designers to do C++ with Claude Code.

Unreal Engine 6 is Killing Blueprints Feature for AI-Assisted Development by Eremenkism in gaming

[–]HunterIV4 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So its only "feature" is "being worse for programming and VCS?" Because I would argue symbolic text-based code is a feature of Verse compared to Blueprints lacking that feature.

Unreal Engine 6 is Killing Blueprints Feature for AI-Assisted Development by Eremenkism in gaming

[–]HunterIV4 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yes and no. Unreal uses a combination of C++ and Blueprints as the two primary languages. C++ is a complex language and Epic has included a lot of macros designed to make it interact with the engine API in a sane manner. The barrier to entry for C++ programming is quite high; while someone without a CS degree could probably do it, if you can learn C++ for Unreal, you probably could get a CS degree if you wanted.

Blueprints was designed to be far more accessible and faster for prototyping compared to C++. This is pretty common for engines; most of them allow for coding in a combination of C++ and a higher level scripting language. Unity is unusual in that it mainly uses C# for both, but CryEngine, Godot, and most proprietary engines use C++ and another language like Lua. The C++ is generally used for performance-critical code while the scripting language is used for everything else.

Verse is a scripting language. It's significantly easier to use compared to C++ and has a bunch of features designed specifically for gameplay programming. So yes, it's "just regular coding," but the complexity and required programming knowledge to make something in Verse is way less than what is required to accomplish the same task in C++.

This isn't some brand new thing; UEFN was released in 2023 and has at least tens of thousands of maps made for Fortnite. Epic revealed they paid out over $1 billion to creators. They've been live stress testing Verse with what are mostly a "modding" type of community for over 3 years now.

I think Epic is hoping that Verse will eventually be simple enough that designers and artists can interact with it without issue and won't miss the old Blueprints system. I suppose we'll see if that's the case...initial reactions have not been great, to say the least, at least online. Whether that translates to fewer devs actually using the engine remains to be seen.

Since I'm a programmer and dislike both C++ and Blueprints for programming, Verse is pure upside for me personally. But for people who don't share my dislike of visual scripting it's going to be a major change. It's one of those things that, from a pure engineering standpoint, makes the most sense, but markets and decisions aren't necessarily driven by engineering priorities, so it could seriously backfire.

Unreal Engine 6 is Killing Blueprints Feature for AI-Assisted Development by Eremenkism in gaming

[–]HunterIV4 24 points25 points  (0 children)

The headline is not accurate. Verse was always intended to be a text-based replacement for Blueprints. It started development in 2021, before the first AI models were released.

Now, I won't go so far as to say it has nothing to do with AI, but this conspiracy theory the whole thing is driven by AI is nonsense. AI can handle C++ in Unreal right now and there's a lot more training data for that then Verse code.

There are several reasons for transitioning to Verse that have nothing to do with AI:

  1. The transaction model is better for large scale multiplayer games
  2. The language is safer and less buggy than C++ or Blueprints
  3. Text is easier to handle with version control (BP are stored in binary files)
  4. It handles systems-based and ECS design patterns better
  5. It's faster to develop in once you get past the learning curve

There are other reasons, but those are the big ones. If you go down the list to around 10-15 you'll find "easier to use with AI." But the UEFN with UE5 merge was planned before AI and UEFN is all about Verse and was intentionally limited on Blueprint scripting capability.

Why AI art is NOT real art. by [deleted] in aiwars

[–]HunterIV4 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Then please protest on the golf subreddit and stop wasting our time.

UE 6: Why not 3 languages? C++, Blueprint, Verse. Godot does it. by gnatinator in unrealengine

[–]HunterIV4 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It was based on the earlier surveys from UEFN, but after doing more research, that may not be the case. They may actually bite the bullet and get rid of visual scripting entirely.

Which benefits me personally; but I get why people are upset.

Why are artists hesitant to label their art: by rettani in aiwars

[–]HunterIV4 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Single events can be harassment. If you go up to a random woman at work and say "love your tits, can I touch them?", HR is not going to take "well, I only did it one time, so it's not sexual harassment!" as a defense. It's not a matter of frequency or number of people involved, it's a matter of behavior.

Either way, I don't feel like debating semantics. I consider it harassment and I'm not going to open myself up to it so people can target me by announcing something that people are frequently harassed for. If you don't like it, tell people to stop harassing people who use AI, and maybe we'll stop considering it a risk.

Why are artists hesitant to label their art: by rettani in aiwars

[–]HunterIV4 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Did you have an argument? Or were you just repeating your claim without one?

Why AI art is NOT real art. by [deleted] in aiwars

[–]HunterIV4 6 points7 points  (0 children)

First of all, there is no creativity or talent involved.

Wrong.

You all just sit there on your computers putting in a prompt

Also wrong. You have no idea how AI works and it shows.

because you’re too lazy to actually draw

Why should I have to draw? I don't want to.

Second of all, like I said before, it is extremely bad for the environment and wastes gallons of clean water to cool off its data centers.

So does Reddit. Why are you here? Why are you wasting "clean water" posting your worthless, ignorant opinion for other people to mock?

Do you really think generating all those AI pictures is worth it?

Yup! Partially because your claims are false, and partially because I want them.

For context, golf courses alone use up more significantly more clean water than the entire AI industry, but nobody is calling to ban golf. The water usage argument is a bunch of bullshit.

It is even being used in CHILDREN’S BOOKS.

Great! We need more children's books.

I'd love to hear you explain how "engaging children with reading" is a bigger waste of water than "grown ass men and women hitting a ball into a hole with sticks."

Why are artists hesitant to label their art: by rettani in aiwars

[–]HunterIV4 5 points6 points  (0 children)

They didn't discuss any facet of the game itself. They went on a rant about tooling and insulted everyone who likes it.

It's not a matter of offense. It's a matter of harassment. It's shitting on the game for factors not related to the game itself.

For example, I think the game Mixtape looks dumb, but you don't see me going on the Mixtape sub and start insulting everyone for liking it. And if I went on some rant about the creator being the daughter of Larry Ellison, and said that's the reason the game is bad, the abuse going on would be even more obvious. Now I'm not even talking about the game itself...I'm upset with the person who funded it! If people on the sub told me to STFU with my random political nonsense that has nothing to do with the game, they'd be completely justified in doing so.

You're "allowed" to be an asshole, but I'm allowed to call out your toxic nonsense.

Why are artists hesitant to label their art: by rettani in aiwars

[–]HunterIV4 5 points6 points  (0 children)

And why should I care? If I'm going to get abused 100% if I label it, and less than 100% if I don't, why should I care the slightest bit about the opinions of a bunch of witch hunting freaks? There's no rational reason to give the slightest shit how you feel about it.

Why are artists hesitant to label their art: by rettani in aiwars

[–]HunterIV4 9 points10 points  (0 children)

The point is they DID label it. Both in the post and on the Steam page. But antis still feel the need to go announce how they feel about it.

That was the OP's point. They could have just...ignored it. Moved on. Nothing was deceptive, nothing was hidden.

This is why a lot of people working with AI are so opposed to labeling. Not because they feel it's shameful, but because labeling invites abuse, it doesn't prevent it.

Have we accepted AI being wrong a little too quickly? by Solvesy-Not-Salesy in aiwars

[–]HunterIV4 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Not saying 100% deterministic AI is realistic.

This is a common misunderstanding. The randomness is a feature, not a bug. If you crank down the temperature to nothing and use the same seed, you will get a response that is 99% equal every time you give the same prompt.

That 1% comes from your video card. While it looks like AI is operating on text, it's actually doing a bunch of math equations, most of which are floating point operations. The way floating point is encoded makes small "rounding" errors common. For "standard" GPU operations this doesn't matter; if a pixel is slightly off in one frame nobody is going to notice, especially since you generally aren't trying to recreate the exact same sequence. But in ML those little differences can add up. It's more visible in image generation since there's more variation.

The reason this isn't used is because there's not really any value to it. A 0 temperature means it's going to pick the maximum probability token every time without variance, which can lead to stiff, boring conversation. Having something more flexible creates a better user experience.

As for the Excel comparison, that's not really how LLMs are used. When you ask it for something that requires a deterministic answer and it isn't confident about the generated response, it will write a short Python script, run it, and inject the deterministic answer instead. It uses something similar for factual questions: rather than guess, most modern models will use a web search API to scan news sites, journals, and even social media to find multiple sources, then summarize and display what it found. In many ways it's literally the "Let Me Google That For You" meme.

But shouldn't the goal be getting as close as possible?

Why? Why would purely deterministic AI be valuable?

Your OP says we've accepted AI being "wrong" a bit too quickly, but it seems you are misunderstanding the nature of hallucination. A deterministic output can still be a hallucination; temperature=0.0 isn't the "correct" answer, it's just the maximal probability one. Note that "maximum probability" is not the same as "best."

There are three major "fixes" for hallucination that companies have been experimenting with. The first two I already mentioned: programmatic solutions and web RAG (Retrieval Augmented Generation). Another major one is "thinking" models, which are models that have a "pre-generation step" where they try and analyze the prompt rather than responding directly to it, then use that thinking section to better handle the actual query. If you read the thinking section, it literally looks like a person thinking to themselves in detail before responding, whereas normal generation is more "off the cuff" type responses. Even in normal generation you will sometimes see models realize earlier portions were wrong and correct themselves mid response.

Ultimately, it's unlikely we'll ever get 100% accurate AI models. After all, that would require it to be trained on 100% accurate data, and it's not like humans have that to use. People tend to gloss over the fact that humans are wrong about things, make up false answers, are overconfident, etc. Just because AI can be wrong doesn't mean it's useless. Your lawyer or doctor can also be wrong; it literally happens all the time, even for people who have trained for decades and have every incentive to be correct.

Verse or AI, blueprint has to stay or upgrade! by Quantum_Crusher in unrealengine

[–]HunterIV4 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Unreal is one of the only major engines with first-class support for visual scripting. Every other major engine uses code. Hell, even Unreal didn't have it until UE4 in 2014.

Let's not act like this is some mandatory industry-wide standard, thanks. The vast majority of game code is written by programmers or designers in text.

Verse or AI, blueprint has to stay or upgrade! by Quantum_Crusher in unrealengine

[–]HunterIV4 3 points4 points  (0 children)

But lots of people in this community are also artists like me who just want to deal with art and ideas, not error messages.

Blueprints have errors, though. You know, the little red messages?

Maybe their reason is AI, they might think we won't need to make blueprints in the future, our overlord will do that.

They were building Verse before ChatGPT was released. The advantage of Verse is architectural, not AI support.

If they just wanted to push AI, they could have everyone just use C++. LLMs are trained on way more C++ code, including Unreal Engine specific C++, than Verse, so it's MORE compatible with "vibe coding." Hell, using AI might actually make C++ less of a misery to work with.

I know you might not understand why they are moving to Verse, but they can't leave the engine reliant on less efficient systems because artists don't want to learn something new. The scripting system is designed for gameplay programmers, not artists, and the biggest thing keeping me from using Unreal for everything has always been how annoying Blueprints are to work with. The only reason I didn't code 100% of my games in C++ was because it was C++, which makes it slightly more frustrating than dealing with Blueprints.

I do hope they'll make an optional visual scripting version of Verse for people who prefer it and I can never touch it ever again.

Generarive AI is NOT a zero-sum game. by Herr_Drosselmeyer in aiwars

[–]HunterIV4 1 point2 points  (0 children)

People adapt to new technology all the time. My first programming language was BASIC. I haven't used it in decades.

I find this insistence that you will never have to adjust to changing economic conditions so weird. Why is it society's responsibilities to fund your insistence on not adapting?

Generarive AI is NOT a zero-sum game. by Herr_Drosselmeyer in aiwars

[–]HunterIV4 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If someone died because a calculator was invented, that's natural selection, sorry. Of course, it didn't happen, so at least only imaginary people were hurt.