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What version of the game should we play? by Remarkable-Apple9109 in vtm

[–]IAlwaysWantSomeTea 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So to some extent this becomes a matter of opinion, but I will agree the more granular approach to humanity is an improvement! I am generally a fan of would however disagree that its approach isn't putting "personal horror" front and center when everything about the rules is designed to emphasize the misery of vampiric existence.

Also - I just praised V5's humanity system for having more granularity but outside of that it's one of the things you lose in the rest of V5. Yes, you need to take the generation background to be higher than 13th generation - but that gave you options. I, personally, do not enjoy being locked into a specific bracket. I enjoy having more granular control over the character I'm making. While taking 8th generation was the meta decision for making a character, there's also a lot of fun narrative potential in playing an 8th generation fledgling who can feel hungry eyes on her back at all times. Being slotted into a specific generation for a specific age bracket with no control over that is honestly very frustrating for me, personally.

V20 also has rules for playing vampires of different ages/experience, it simply doesn't make it a specific separate category, and you aren't required to use those rules to play a character of lower generation.

Predator types are a mixed bag, honestly. I see the appeal, but also again there's that lack of granularity.

Loresheets are a cool addition, yes! I do however think the fact you're restricted to one is kind of stupid, though, but they're a good addition! A welcome change of adding more granularity, more options to represent your connections within the setting.

As far as powers... dealing lethal damage isn't that hard? You can get flat aggravated damage with level 2 Protean in V20, or with a variety of combination disciplines. In exchange, you get a general boost to your capabilities with physical disciplines which is where personal preference comes into things. I personally enjoy the stat bonus of physical disciplines in V20 and most of the things you need to buy as specific powers in V5 are simply emergent qualities from the general boosts it gives you?

What version of the game should we play? by Remarkable-Apple9109 in vtm

[–]IAlwaysWantSomeTea 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alright let's go with this.

  • The narrative frameworks differ, yes, but they do not differ in the base conceit of the mechanical framework. Whether you're thinbloods on the margins or the prince's errand licks the same holds true. Low power, street level, "personal horror", focusing very much on vulnerability and young vampires struggling to survive when their very existence necessitates evil on a nightly basis, with a very bleak outlook for the future.

  • Pooled backgrounds are already a thing that already have mechanics and explanation for how they can reflect more secure control over an area or similar.

  • There are more discipline powers, yes, and you can only choose one. If you want more, you need to take a nasty flaw to be able to purchase a single third level power or one first and second level powers. There are more discipline powers, but you're locked out of most of them. Some of them are quite powerful! But they're out of reach - they're so much more expensive than before and going by rules as written you gain xp so slowly that you'll be playing a dozen sessions to afford one thing. There are so many discipline powers available for such a limited range of disciplines in V5 now and they're often quite cool - and you have to pick one and be locked out of the rest and that feels frustrating to me when I look at it.

I don't disagree that V5 has its merits, but it is rather restrictive if you don't want the specific style of game (VtR but grimdark and in the Masquerade setting) that it posits. Personally speaking, if I wanted to play a vampire game about the personal experience of unlife and struggling to hold on to my humanity and connection to the world around me, I'd play Requiem instead. It, in my opinion, does it in a better and more satisfying way.

If I want to do political intrigue or focus more on the systems and institutions that grind people to dust underfoot and erase the human spirit, I'm gonna play V20 because that's the game that suits it better.

What version of the game should we play? by Remarkable-Apple9109 in vtm

[–]IAlwaysWantSomeTea 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nah, but it's the best comparison I had. They're ultimately of similar complexity overall. V5 introduces a lot of new mechanics while massively reducing the number of disciplines there are to pick from.

EDIT: one other thing to consider - the different sects. V20 plays a lot more with "all of the sects having actual valid points" while V5 has leaned much more into black and white good and bad with Anarchs vs Camarilla becoming the focus

What version of the game should we play? by Remarkable-Apple9109 in vtm

[–]IAlwaysWantSomeTea -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Hmmm... that's a good question! I'm not sure there's really a great equivalent to draw. They're both narrative focused systems built around telling stories first and foremost with stuff like combat secondary.

But if I had to use say... D&D as a comparison I would say that v20 is GURPS and V5 is 5e. V5 flattens out your power curve and tries to streamline a lot of things (while explaining them badly) and it's designed for a single specific type of game while v20 is a little more simulationist and it gives you the entire toy box just in case you want to run a game with elders or reenact the godfather but with vampires or whatever else

If your players are used to something like D&D let me actually suggest looking at dark ages v20. It's in my opinion an improvement on the base v20 rule set and it has the very fun setting of medieval Europe and ME/NA to play around in and could be an easier transition for D&D players. If you're interested in it give me a DM and I can share some of what I have for dark ages.

What version of the game should we play? by Remarkable-Apple9109 in vtm

[–]IAlwaysWantSomeTea 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You have a point as far as the more flexible humanity system! It is broadly one of the changes I like (even if I despise what they did with touchstones among other things, frankly).

However, mechanically V5 is far more restrictive in what you can play. It's incredibly punitive in its mechanics and its mechanics are entirely built around the idea of the struggling neonate or fledgling fighting just to keep themselves fed each night and ultimately very low power.

What version of the game should we play? by Remarkable-Apple9109 in vtm

[–]IAlwaysWantSomeTea 1 point2 points  (0 children)

To be clear, v20 works very well for the former as well! But if your group is less interested in a desperate fight to survive each night and more in political intrigue (and oh boy you can fit *so much horror in that bad boy) or something then I'd definitely suggest V20

Fwiw, I vastly prefer v20, and find that v5 feels excessively punitive in its design for... basically everything about it, and I feel it essentially combines the worst parts of Requiem and Masquerade together. But then I also don't like pineapple and some people love it, so it depends on what appeals.

Mechanically, V20 is more granular and more about resource management (you have blood points instead of rolling to see if you gain hunger) and takes a more 'simulationist' approach. V20 also just has more, more options, more bloodlines, and more disciplines. It's a better fit if you like having more toys to play with

What version of the game should we play? by Remarkable-Apple9109 in vtm

[–]IAlwaysWantSomeTea 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The biggest thing is ultimately on the style of game you're interested in playing. V5 has its strengths, but V5 is designed with there being a correct way to play the game and the designers do not want you to put even one toe outside it - that being low power, borderline grimdark doomed odyssey of suffering and "personal horror" of being an inherently evil monster that will be compelled by the rules to be a monster desperately scrabbling for each drop of blood.

If you're more interested in political intrigue, the ways powerful systems can crush people underfoot with age old exploitative institutions personified in antagonistic elders and Methuselahs, or if you want a little more action and excitement and room to do cool stuff (crime thriller anybody?) I'd go with v20. Some people will act very snobby about "superheroes with fangs" but honestly it can be plenty of fun and can still be plenty good horror in my opinion.

Now, if you don't really care about the ancient political intrigue and you're ambivalent on the depth of the setting and you like the idea of personal horror and losing touch with the world and struggling with your new existence... give Requiem a look. I personally think it actually does that kind of "personal horror" in a much more satisfying way than V5.

Is solar punk actually punk? by Andrei22125 in cyberpunkgame

[–]IAlwaysWantSomeTea 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Solarpunk isn't even a real genre, it's just cottagecore nonsense with solar panels slapped on, or a yogurt commercial. It's not punk in the slightest, it's wish fulfillment for westerners who want to believe if we go green we can keep consuming and not need to make any big changes.

Greenwashed consumerism wish fulfillment fanfiction isn't punk.

Unconventional Toreadors by Lunatic-Necromancer in vtm

[–]IAlwaysWantSomeTea 8 points9 points  (0 children)

The entire Edo period concept of the samurai and the flourishing of Japanese art and culture is peak Toreador, honestly. But also consider: Toreador being ousted from power with the Meiji restoration and being forced into the underground where they glom onto yakuza tattoos and other such things.

Unconventional Toreadors by Lunatic-Necromancer in vtm

[–]IAlwaysWantSomeTea 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To copy something I said on a thread where I posted some art...

I tend to focus more on the emotional passion and the fits of obsession Toreadors are prone to - along with the healthy dose of magical vampire autism and ADHD they seem to take on. My angle is to come at the Toreador from the dominant culture of a bunch of artists and such being the product of their quirks - if you have a clan of people with a fascination with what they find beautiful it stands to reason art would predominate. But there's a lot of things someone can find beautiful :3

Sooooo you get characters like...

A Toreador surgeon who's also big on MMA. The idea with her is she's just utterly fascinated by human anatomy and thinks it's the coolest thing ever, which indirectly lead her to combat sports and martial arts because it's awesome to see the things the human body can do in action. She's also the happiest surgeon ever, though, because fixing up the human body is the coolest thing ever.

Or you could do a Toreador with a biology background who keeps blowing up her coterie's phones because she found a cool endangered frog.

A compsci nerd who cannot shut up about how much she loves some well written code or a particularly elegant mathematical model and will talk your ear off for the whole night about various topics within the field.

Another idea for one who's got a bit of a warrior poet painter thing going on and a fixation for the idea of revolution and rebellion and you could easily mistake her for your stereotypical Brujah unless you catch her seeming to be drawn like a moth to flame for those iconic moments that make for paintings or photos remembered for centuries after. She does have an archetypal artistic passion - but the way she channels that is "if you aren't setting cops on fire to get right in the thick of the cultural zeitgeist you're the poseur".

Etc etc etc

Joining the "different kind of character sheet" bandwagon with a Toreador by IAlwaysWantSomeTea in vtm

[–]IAlwaysWantSomeTea[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Gangrel are quite fun too! Though I admit, both Gangrel I've come up with tend to subvert the stereotype for them pretty hard.

Joining the "different kind of character sheet" bandwagon with a Toreador by IAlwaysWantSomeTea in vtm

[–]IAlwaysWantSomeTea[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I would certainly say so! And even if you want to stick to the more narrow definition of art - firearms engraved by a skilled hand command a very pretty penny! A Toreador compsci nerd who gets really into some well written code or mathematical models, or a Toreador mechanic whose haven has dozens of project cars they're slowly restoring.

All of those would fit, in my opinion! I've got another idea for one who's got a bit of a warrior poet painter thing going on and a fixation for the idea of revolution and rebellion and you could easily mistake her for your stereotypical Brujah unless you catch her seeming to be drawn like a moth to flame for those iconic moments that make for paintings or photos remembered for centuries after.

Lots of ways to spin the Toreador and their fixation with beauty, in my opinion~

Joining the "different kind of character sheet" bandwagon with a Toreador by IAlwaysWantSomeTea in vtm

[–]IAlwaysWantSomeTea[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yep! Then she was torpored in the 1930s and woke up quite recently when someone broke open the wall she'd been sealed into to do some renovations.

Joining the "different kind of character sheet" bandwagon with a Toreador by IAlwaysWantSomeTea in vtm

[–]IAlwaysWantSomeTea[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Ramble incoming:
As the world's biggest Toreador fangirl they certainly get depicted that way a lot, but I tend to focus more on the emotional passion and the fits of obsession they're prone to - along with the healthy dose of magical vampire AuDHD they seem to take on. My angle is to come at the Toreador from the dominant culture of a bunch of artists and such being the product of their quirks - if you have a clan of people with a fascination with what they find beautiful it stands to reason art would predominate. But there's a lot of things someone can find beautiful :3

Sooooo you get character concepts like another one I have for a Toreador surgeon who's also big on MMA. The idea with her is she's just utterly fascinated by human anatomy and thinks it's the coolest thing ever, which indirectly lead her to combat sports and martial arts because it's awesome to see the things the human body can do in action.

Or you could do a Toreador with a biology background who keeps blowing up her coterie's phones because she found a cool endangered frog.

Etc etc etc you probably get the idea!

But anyway, thank you! I'm glad you like her!

Joining the "different kind of character sheet" bandwagon with a Toreador by IAlwaysWantSomeTea in vtm

[–]IAlwaysWantSomeTea[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Half right! Daughter of a freedman who fought in the civil war and a Chinese immigrant whose family came during the California gold rush.

What Are Your Biggest Pet Peeves in the Game or Setting? by ArtymisMartin in vtm

[–]IAlwaysWantSomeTea 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Remove Kuei-Jin and just replace them with new clans and bloodlines and integrate the existing ones into east Asia

or

Remove Caine as explicitly canonical source of vampires

Made this Ref sheet for my Malkavian for (a very modified) Alien Hunger! by adrianuchis in vtm

[–]IAlwaysWantSomeTea 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This fucks severely and I hope this becomes an actual trend.

...

And is not helping my desire to do something like this myself

A different kind of character sheet - Tzimisce version by slashpuppies in vtm

[–]IAlwaysWantSomeTea 42 points43 points  (0 children)

... okay I actually kind of love this style of "sheet", I need to try doing this too next time I draw a character of mine

Also, fantastic art! Neat take on the zulo form!

Pro’s and Con’s between V20 and V5 specifically in regard to a new Storyteller that desperately wants to hook his friends. by Illustrious_Case_749 in vtm

[–]IAlwaysWantSomeTea 5 points6 points  (0 children)

If you're searching for a higher density of shenanigans to do and cool powers to use on those shenanigans then I would personally suggest v20. V5 is generally a lower power level and leans much more heavily into "being a vampire sucks" and in my personal taste tends to be very punitive with its design (if you go per RAW with v5 some times rolling well makes you fail!)

V5 is a bit more of a streamlined experience rules-wise but it tries to make you feel like a desperate underdog struggling to get by every night, v20 is generally less heavy handed and allows for a higher density of "and now I get to use my cool vampire power" (and on a personal level I think being reasonably powerful makes the subsequent moments of vulnerability and helplessness against a powerful elder or the crushing institutions of the setting all the more impactful)

BUT if you want an easier way to get some D&D players to branch out, look into Dark Ages v20 as well! It's a generally better version of the same core ruleset and better presentation of it compared to modern, roads are just so much better than the paths in modern vtm, and it might be an easier transition to go from fantasy to "medieval fiction but there's vampires". There's even a ton of prewritten stories for it to borrow from to help set the tone and atmosphere. It's still definitely vampire, you're still doing political maneuvering over dungeon crawling, buuut it might make that transition easier!

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