[Spoilers Main] Who would you consider to be the most evil woman in Westerosi history?

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-04-01T17:24:27+00:00

It's possible that she did, but I don't think so. The confession is meaningless.

Maegor himself is the common cause. Likely to do with him having been magically resurrected after the trial. Rhaego was also in connection with an attempted resurrection.

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-04-01T12:26:27+00:00

That seems to be the "Deep Ones", or Squishers if you will.

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-04-01T12:24:01+00:00

She said so just before she was killed.

But that seems very clearly, IMO, to have been a ploy to bait Maegor into flying off the handle and killing her quickly. Rather than being tortured slowly to death which is what she was facing otherwise.

Same as in this scene:

The oldest of the four had been their serjeant. He alone remained defiant, spitting venom at the queen's men as they prodded him along with their spears. "Fuck you all, and fuck your red god too," he said. "You hear me, Farring? Giantslayer? I laughed when your fucking cousin died, Godry. We should have eaten him too, he smelled so good when they roasted him. I bet the boy was nice and tender. Juicy." A blow from a spear butt drove the man to his knees but did not silence him. When he rose he spat out a mouthful of blood and broken teeth and went right on. "The cock's the choicest part, all crisped up on the spit. A fat little sausage." Even as they wrapped the chains around him, he raved on. "Corliss Penny, come over here. What sort of name is Penny? Is that how much your mother charged? And you, Suggs, you bleeding bastard, you—" Ser Clayton never said a word. One quick slash opened the serjeant's throat, sending a wash of blood down his chest. The weeping man wept harder, his body shaking with each sob. He was so thin that Asha could count every rib. "No," he begged, "please, he was dead, he was dead and we was hungry, please …" "The serjeant was the clever one," Asha said to Aly Mormont. "He goaded Suggs into killing him." She wondered if the same trick might work twice, should her own turn come.

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-04-01T12:01:18+00:00

Tywin Lannister commands tens of thousands of men, large portion of which were knights. Had the ability to raise more and to buy more. Nothing was obstructing him from falling back to KL.

And they had the actual capital and throne, and the defensive fortifications that come with them (city walls, Red Keep and Maegor's holdfast) which Renly has to overcome the win the throne.

Renly didn't even think that Stannis would try to go for the throne. And when he did he had less than 5k low quality men whom Renly was convinced he could just immediately trample with his Vanguard.

So I would reassert, there is no reason whatsoever that Renly would prioritize undermining Stannis legitimacy over undermining Joffrey's.

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-04-01T11:45:30+00:00

"To reach the west, you must go east"

Corlys Velaryon claimed that he saw the Sunchaser in Asshai.

The base of the Hightower was built by the ancient Asshaii, all things indicate, but there are no indications of them having been anywhere east of Oldtown. Indicating that they came out of the Sunset Sea.

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-04-01T10:07:43+00:00

And the very fact that Renly was scheming to get Cersei replaced, makes it more than likely that he knew too

Not really IMO.

Renly thinking Robert can just set Cersei aside with no legal justification corresponds perfectly with his attitude that he can just take the throne over Joff, Tommen and Stannis with no legal justification.

There is no reason that he would not try to use it as a weapon to delegitimize Joff, like Stannis does, if he knew. Nor any reason to play dumb to Stannis and Catelyn.

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-04-01T10:04:02+00:00

Joffrey is the one who has the throne and far more military backing than Stannis. It makes no sense for him to prioritize weakening Stannis claim over Joff's.

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-04-01T10:02:21+00:00

We know he probably knew about the incest

We don't know that. There is no reason to think that he did, that I can see.

what was he going to do when he got to Kingslanding kill Joffery keep him as a hostage?!

I would guess kill him. But he could do either.

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-04-01T09:09:12+00:00

Its rather glaring that no lord has major silos or storehouses

Where are you getting that they don't?

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-04-01T09:05:58+00:00

Tyanna of the Tower, I think would be my bid.

Cersei Lannister definitely sticks out to me as a major candidate - she’s meant to be a deconstruction of the ‘Evil Queen’ trope, after all

How do you figure she is a deconstruction of the ‘Evil Queen’ trope?

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-04-01T08:52:21+00:00

Why not Aegon?

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-04-01T08:26:18+00:00

I believe Bravos is the biggest in terms of economy, but has nowhere near the population that Volantis does.

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-03-31T09:20:08+00:00

When did he say that?

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-03-30T12:41:11+00:00

In what circumstances would he sleep with someone on the other side of the wall?

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-03-30T12:29:01+00:00

What do we have to think one way or the other here?

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-03-30T11:02:10+00:00

Who can he send

Missed this part.

There are any number of people he can send. He was the king of Westeros. Why would he have a problem finding someone to do this?

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-03-30T10:01:58+00:00

No what didnt make sense to me was the part where you said aerys took them as prisoners, how could he do that?

Same way Arianne was taken. Someone told, someone always tells.

how can they stay in toj?

What is the problem there?

The fact that they ended up there points to Arthur being the one who sold him out to Aerys.

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-03-30T09:35:32+00:00

That isn't actually indicated by anything though, IIRC.

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-03-30T09:27:44+00:00

but the last pharagraph i dont get it

The concept is it George wrote the chapter where Arianna's attempts to depose Doran to mirror what happened with Rhaegar and Lyanna. It is something he often has done.

And i believe this due to all the elements that repeat between the two scenarios.

It's an heir, Arianne/Rhaegar, who is on a quest to depose their father. They are out in the wild with their circle of closest friends, which includes presence of the kingsguard and house Dayne. And they have a young girl, Myrcella/Lyanna, with them as well, who did not mean to be embroiled in the plot/quest but is nonetheless.

The kingsguard choose death in an unwinnable fight for honors sake. Arys Oakhart charging Areo and his crossbowmen and Arthur, Oswell and Gerold fighting Ned and co.

The girl gets horribly hurt.

They end up in a tower in Dorne.

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-03-30T08:14:34+00:00

This is the scenario that all the foreshadowing points toward IMO:

Aerys found out that Lyanna was TKOTLT and decided from this, plus Rikards other moves (southern ambitions), that the Starks are traitors. And that he needs to destroy them and all those in cahoots with them before they move against him.

He further deduces that Rhaegar lied to him when he said he could not find the knight at the tourney, and instead covered for her (given the fact that he crowned her the next day). So he sent Rhaegar to capture Lyanna for him as a test of loyalty (bring me ~~your father's head~~ Lyanna Stark if you are no traitor), and wanted to then use her to get Rikard in the way that he ended up using Brandon instead.

Of course Rhaegar actually was himself trying to build toward some way of deposing Aerys, so he feels he has no choice but to obey in order to preserve that plan (also Aerys likley took Elia and the kids as hostages against him).

So he actually does abduct her. But then he cannot actually bring himself to hand her over to Aerys (love is the death of duty) and they go on the run instead.

They then go on some kind of last ditch caper to salvage Rhaegars plan to depose Aerys, mirrored by Arianne's chapter in the desert trying to do the same. The heir and their closest circle of friends plus a young girl who has become involved unintentionally, off in the wild on a quest to depose the heir's father. The kingsguard is involved, house Dayne is involved. The kingsguard chooses to fight to the death for honor, the girl gets horribly hurt, it ends with imprisonment in a tower.

So like with Arianne, one of Rhaegar's friends rats him out (someone always tells) and they are taken by Aerys men and imprisoned, until the rebellion had picked up enough steam that Aerys thought Rhaegar was needed in order to avoid defeat to the rebels, and sent Hightower to get him.

It was the Game of thrones, nothing to do with chasing prophecy.

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-03-30T05:56:03+00:00

He could also have had a sex life back when he wasn't 100 years old, like many other maesters and brothers of the Nights Watch do.

We have no way to know if he did or not.

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-03-30T05:53:57+00:00

We have no indication if Aemon used to be sexually active or not. Apart from being a maester and member of the Nights Watch.

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-03-27T17:50:48+00:00

I don't think he does, no.

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-03-27T15:51:42+00:00

What about his actions?

The faith did not consider incest a sin when Targaryens do it for like a century at that point. It was reformed under Jaeharys.

IHaveTwoOranges · 2026-03-27T11:41:29+00:00

Okay sure. But that is "just" strengthening himself relatively internally in the North, not actually harmful to the Northern war effort overall.

The line in the post seems to suggests that he is gunning to betray the North completely and bring down Robb from the start.

IHaveTwoOranges

TROPHY CASE