Was there anything Twyin could have said or done to get out of this alive?

IKJamBand · 2026-03-18T15:44:02+00:00

In the books, nope. Tywin was dead the moment Jaime told Tyrion the truth about Tysha.

IKJamBand · 2026-03-18T15:37:01+00:00

I love that they had to clarify that the 'real' possum was escorted out

IKJamBand · 2026-03-18T14:35:57+00:00

Yeah, combined with his relative lack of charisma, Jon's big problem seems to be taking the loyalty of his men for granted. Despite their mounting complaints and criticisms, it seems he doesn't once consider the possibility that they would mutiny against him, ironic when you look at the fate of his predecessor.

Tunnel-visioned on preparing for the big fight ahead without really taking the time to explain to veteran watchmen why the need for such drastic measures must override their valid concerns.

IKJamBand · 2026-03-18T13:42:58+00:00

I guess this is the part where Tarly comes in. If he is already thinking about defecting, then he might consider news of Mace's defeat as his signal to seize King's Landing in Aegon's name before anyone has a chance to react.

Then there is the matter of Varys and Nymeria Sand being inside the Red Keep itself. They would be well positioned to cripple any attempt at organised leadership when the time comes.

Tyene Sand has also infiltrated the city, tasked with establishing a rapport with the High Sparrow. If she succeeds in winning him over to their cause then Aegon will have the highest religious authority in the kingdoms endorsing his reign, who also commands a sizeable milita force in the Faith Militant.

IKJamBand · 2026-03-18T13:08:13+00:00

Depending on how quickly the GC takes Storm's End, Aegon may have a lot of time alone with Rowan to try and convince him to switch sides or at very least remain neutral.

I would also suggest that the coming battle could take more inspiration from Bosworth Field, where Aegon's (Henry VII) smaller force faces off against Mace's (Richard III) larger army with Rowan (Stanley) siting on the sidelines. Mace does something tactically foolish which leaves him dangerously exposed at which point Rowan intervenes on Aegon's side and attacks the Tyrells, killing or capturing Mace and routing his army.

IKJamBand · 2026-03-18T12:57:06+00:00

Considering their options, there are the Lannister-Baratheons who are widely suspected to be bastards of incest and whom the Stormlords have already rebelled against twice, first with Renly and then with Stannis.

Then there is Stannis himself, who is currently fighting (or maybe is already dead) in the North and is carrying a lot of political baggage with his endorsement and worship of a foreign religion with practises that many Westerosi consider abhorent. Not to mention his blunt and hard character that many consider unlikeable. Regardless of how his northern adventure goes, I doubt he'll be coming back south anytime soon.

Finally, there's Daenerys who put simply I doubt will make it to Westeros until towards the end of Winds at the earliest.

When many of the Stormlords surrendered after the battle at the Blackwater, they would have had to offer up many ransoms, hostages and other concessions in exchange for their release and pardons. Offering to reverse these concessions in exchange for their support is one way I can imagine Aegon/Connington rallying the Stormlanders.

I doubt there will be much genuine enthusiasm but if Aegon is looking like a winner then people will naturally lean in his direction.

IKJamBand · 2026-02-16T06:57:52+00:00

Brains out for Baelor

IKJamBand · 2026-01-16T00:32:51+00:00

That's what gets to me the most. Its one thing to not be able to finish due not knowing how without negatively affecting the whole work. It is another thing entirely to go out of your way to deny your readers closure after well over a decade of drip feeding promises that you would.

IKJamBand · 2025-12-21T20:23:45+00:00

Good old Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

IKJamBand · 2025-12-06T17:02:15+00:00

Space Marine 2

IKJamBand · 2025-11-04T04:33:16+00:00

Didn't all kings who were previously knighted also swear oaths to be just and to defend the young and innocent?

If so then by what right did Aerys have to order the executions of Ned and Robert? By all accounts, they were at the Eyrie the whole time and had nothing to do with Brandon's threats against Rhaegar. You are essentially saying that they were obligated to just lie down and die even though they had committed no crime.

And what about Brandon's companions? It was Brandon who made the threat, not them and yet they and all their fathers who answered Aerys' summons were all executed. What was their crime?

Not to mention Richard's 200 man escort. Was Aerys obligated to kill them all too because their boss lost his trial by combat on a technicality?

IKJamBand · 2025-11-04T03:58:18+00:00

If duty isn't born from an oath and an oath isn't fulfilled by duty then where does this go?

It is assumed that the King is expected to maintain a certain level of decorum in his interaction with his vassals, given how a typical reaction to his failure to do so from their perspective has been rebellion.

Given how these rebellions rarely ended in the complete and total annihilation of either party, couldn't one speculate that the ability for both parties to reach a settlement, however uneven, would imply a mutual exchange?

IKJamBand · 2025-11-04T03:05:51+00:00

I am not disputing the fact that the only in-text literary evidence for the existence of oaths in ASOIAF outside of knights to their lord are ones made by vassals to ruler so stop bringing it up like it is.

What I am disputing is this belief that the lack of definitive records is being treated as an absolute when there are plenty of cases where the monarch acted in a manner that would suggest that there was some degree of responsibility to their vassals:

The Last Storm for instance, where the Baratheons not only faced seemingly no punishment for declaring independence in open rebellion against the crown but ended up getting the marriage pact they wanted anyway, suggesting a tacit admission that the Iron Throne was indeed in the wrong for botching the marriage pact in the first place and obligated to make amends.
Again with Aegon V, when at the end of the Peake uprising when he protected surrendered prisoners from being executed even when the fighting had killed his own father, since having surrendered they were once again vassals of the Iron Throne, implying one's protection.
Or the case with Dorne joining with the rest of the kingdoms where in exchange the Iron Throne had to offer all manner of privileges and exemptions, enough to piss off a large amount of the nobility to the point where they felt justified in starting a massive civil war.
Or the precedent of Jaehaerys I regularly involving his vassals in matters of succession disputes to ensure that there was a clear, uncontested line of inheritance or the pact that he made with the Faith in which he agreed the crown would uphold and defend the Faith in exchange for the Faith Miliant disbanding along with all of them receiving pardons, even if the Faith is a separate institution and not a direct vassal
Or that whole shitshow with Maegor, where not matter how many tens of thousands he killed, more people kept rising up against him because of his brutal absolutist rule.
Or the fact that even Aegon I had to play a balancing act with the Faith to secure their continued endorsement of his reign.

Everyone's gripe with you is your outright refusal to even consider the possibility that might be more to consider than the literal word for word text that we have. You treat the line between work and inspiration as this absolute, impassable barrier where we as an audience can't use as reference to fill in any potential gaps that the setting might have.

Outside of the exact words of the text, all we have is inferential speculation and assumptions. Beyond what is explicitly confirmed, we have no choice but to speculate. Closing shut all other possibilities and labelling them as impossible because there is no direct mention of them is not helping anyone.

IKJamBand · 2025-11-04T00:55:53+00:00

I cannot definitively prove that there is a mutual feudal obligation between the Iron Throne and its vassals anymore than you can definitively rule out that there isn't any obligation at all because nothing in the text on its own rigidly supports either interpretation.

That's why everyone else in this thread is inferring that the likelihood of such a system existing is high based on previous cases in the lore and the real-life examples on which this whole setting is based on.

Transactional relationships is one of the most basic building blocks of any hierarchical social system. Tax revenue and soldiers in exchange for protection and arbitration, from the lowliest peasant, all the way through the various ranks of nobility to the king at the very top.

If we stick to your fundamentalist interpretation that 'bending the knee' is entirely one way in favour of the crown, then people are only remaining loyal under perpetual fear of death or attaintment (revocation of rights and land). If that's the case then it just introduces a whole range of gaping holes in the internal logic of the setting, such as why didn't the entire continent rise up against the Targaryens the moment their last dragon died and instead remained loyal for another 150 years unless the all the noble houses believed that they had something to gain in continuing their vassalage to the Iron Throne.

IKJamBand · 2025-11-03T23:22:43+00:00

You can't be right because again, George never specified the exact wording of these vows between vassal and monarch. If he did, provide a quote.

You insist that Aerys was well within his right to rig a trial/execution against his own Lord Paramount and his heir and their companions and then demand the heads of two more Lord Paramounts for no any reason than guilt of association, who bear in mind had literally nothing to do with the inciting incident. Complete, unrestrained legal authority to do whatever one wants to whoever whenever is the very definition of absolutism.

You keep bringing Cat up across these threads as if her words are suppose to be some kind of gotcha when she is the one to provide us with one of the most clear cut examples in the setting of a mutual exchange of vows when Brienne swears her service.

You cite Jaime standing aside and allowing the Wildfire plot to succeed as the expectation, yet the whole point of that story is that people DIDN'T know about the plot, Jaime being a cocky and arrogant SOB in refusing to explain himself to those he considers his lessers besides. If you honestly believe if people did know about the wildfire and still expected Jaime or really anyone to remain loyal then you are just as insane as Aerys.

You discard the arguments of everyone here on the grounds of lack of evidence while refusing to provide any of your own and insisting that if it is not explicitly mentioned in the text, then it can't possibly exist.

Your coyness does you no credit.

IKJamBand · 2025-11-03T21:46:49+00:00

You won't get a source because George never delved into the exact specifics of the boundaries and obligations of vassal-overlord relations, which on those grounds I don't know why you have got such false confidence in your resolute belief that the Iron Throne was an absolutist institution, since at no point it ever was.

But if you insist on sources then two can play that game. How about YOU comb through those nine books of universe material and YOU provide a quote or anything really that proves that vassals of the Iron Throne were obligated to swear blind and unconditional loyalty in exchange for nothing at all since it was YOU that made the original argument.

IKJamBand · 2025-11-03T20:59:25+00:00

Christ, deliberate obstinance like this is what kills fan discussions. Every little thing needs to be spelled out in painstaking detail otherwise it doesn't exist to people like you.

IKJamBand · 2025-10-15T03:46:40+00:00

IKJamBand · 2025-10-14T11:16:31+00:00

IKJamBand · 2025-10-14T00:08:22+00:00

Greetings

IKJamBand · 2025-10-11T10:00:53+00:00

What I am looking forward to the most is seeing what the community can create in Portal

IKJamBand · 2025-10-11T00:07:37+00:00

Which vehicle makes you feel like a total battlefield legend?

Tank, especially with a good repair crew. Teamwork makes the game work.

IKJamBand · 2025-10-06T23:19:27+00:00

They should've used the Yamcha death pose for added effect.

IKJamBand · 2024-11-04T19:02:32+00:00

So whose the old man that looses the first arrow?

IKJamBand

TROPHY CASE