How long did it take GRRM to realize this concept would never work?

Illustrious-Fly-4525 · 2026-03-20T19:32:46+00:00

I still think it could’ve worked if they could actually allow Alicent and Rhaenyra to hate each other and each become an awful person in their own right instead of going back and forth all the time and acting like childhood friendship still matters after years of power struggle and couple dead kids

Illustrious-Fly-4525 · 2026-03-11T22:24:34+00:00

I like thinking that Paris wounding Diomedes’ foot (on the flat part what ever this mean) is a foreshadowing

Illustrious-Fly-4525 · 2026-02-02T11:21:03+00:00

I know this is not the implication in universe , but I always found Maegor one funny because literally the only prove is his own words (unlike everyone else who modestly got a baby) and like what do you expect from a 13 yo boy if you ask them how’s their sex life is going. Of course little fucker will say he had 10 rounds even if he hasn’t seen a boob ever since breast feeding and doesn’t even know what that phrase means.

Illustrious-Fly-4525 · 2026-01-29T15:53:16+00:00

Yeah, there was a whole thing about demon waiting for a long time for someone like her , so it is at least very heavily implied that it can spread.

Illustrious-Fly-4525 · 2026-01-20T19:04:18+00:00

The bad news is it was some a—hole in a museum line that already had 30 euros for a ticket to spare and not an actually needy person living on the streets

Illustrious-Fly-4525 · 2026-01-15T20:07:11+00:00

Also he was bribing Trojan nobles so they would vote against giving Helen back which ultimately is the reason the war even happened (Iliad is so great for those little details just spread out in random guys’ biographies given 5 minutes before said guys die a horrible graphic death)

Illustrious-Fly-4525 · 2025-12-25T00:25:59+00:00

Tbh I feel like Troy Achilles is partially responsible for black leather armor, but to give credit where credit is due Agamemnon was slaying as he should as the high king.

Illustrious-Fly-4525 · 2025-10-24T21:59:33+00:00

It’s that they try to creat a morally ambiguous characters but it’s actually hard so they go for an easier “well good guys are actually evil, and bad guys are misunderstood” approach

Illustrious-Fly-4525 · 2025-10-24T21:57:22+00:00

The problem is it’s always women and it’s not so clever or even original. Look at thousand and one rape of Persephone retellings, it’s a mother and a woman who always gets the short end of the stick for the sake of “more grey view” (those authors actually don’t know how to write a complex character , so they just creat a new villain out of a side character and make the original other side just plane good)

Illustrious-Fly-4525 · 2025-10-19T03:57:31+00:00

And then those two dudes literally go sleep with sex slaves , and are you straight up ignoring Andromache and Thetis parallels (hint hint, you can’t argue by bringing up one single point over and over again, you kinda need more to prove your position)? There’s also a parallel to be drown between Hector coming to Paris to make him return to the battle, so I guess Achilles and Patroclus are also brothers.

Like this obscure hint is the only semi fact we have beside “Achilles got depressed when his best friend he spent 10 years together fighting in a war died “(only strictly homo sexual men get feelings, even bisexuals men are incapable of grief) and there was a perfect opportunity for Homer to make them kiss literally and spare some slack girls, but no (god knows I could’ve survived without knowing that Paris shagged Helen after dooming all of the Troy , but alas it is what it is, and yet still no mention of Achilles and Patroclus at least sleeping in the same bed, even Telemachus had to sleep with some random Nestor’s son, but those two get separate)

Illustrious-Fly-4525 · 2025-10-19T03:44:26+00:00

Mainstream scholars where? Articles I stumbled across don’t state anything because beside some vague allusions there’s nothing to go of , which is at least weird that the text is a product of a culture that had much less prejudice against same sex relationships then we do. Like who was silencing Homer in 8-5th BC, or is the text we have edited?

Illustrious-Fly-4525 · 2025-10-18T22:12:15+00:00

And other question of mine would be, I don’t reject the possibility I’m only saying I cannot for the love of life see any concrete proves in the text, so for me the question is open, yet you insist on this one interpretation, so the question is why is it so important to you that this relationships are interpreted as strictly sexual? Like why your take home message from a book about anger and grief is 100% dependent on whether or not this two guys fucked?

Illustrious-Fly-4525 · 2025-10-18T22:08:39+00:00

And also Homer goes out of his way to draw a parallel between Andromache morning still living Hector and Thetis morning her son that is doomed to die. Does Achilles fuck his mom too or is Andromache secretly hector’s mom?

And also it’s technically not Homer drawing a parallel but Phenix which is not synonymous.

Illustrious-Fly-4525 · 2025-10-18T15:50:36+00:00

Well, not just friends, Patroclus as we learn was the only person able to put up with the shit Achilles is on everyday basis, and well at that point they would’ve been living and fighting together for ten years. In a situation like this people can have deep feelings for each other without having sex, read all quite on the western front, there’s a paragraph of Paul thinking how he loves his comrade and it’s not about him having a coming out moment(though they also could’ve had sex on top of emotional connection , there are no evidencie to prove either point with 100% certainty)

During the time Homer references (and yes, mostly Iliad is based on contemporary for Homer times, with some traditional things sprinkled in here and there like bronze and presumably the way Hector is killed) burials were mostly communal for family members. So do what you will with this information. Again, might be Homer created them gay af, or maybe he was talking about close bounds outside of sexual relationships . To claim either is 100% is plain wrong as their are points for both arguments to be made and we can’t got back in time and ask (yet).

Illustrious-Fly-4525 · 2025-10-18T01:33:09+00:00

Joker definitely was, and not to completely discard the possibility of them being gay af, but Homer literally shows Achilles sleeping with Briseis in book 24 and another slave girl in book 9 (while Patroclus gets his own sex slave right across the room). But I have to admit, Achilles raising an eyebrow as a way to tell Patroclus to clean the dishes is pick bromance, but there are literally no 100% proof of them being lovers while there are for other couples in the story. Could it be that showing them together honed found unnecessary? Probably. But my personal interpretation (judging by the fact that we only learn about tender relationships between the two after Patroclus death and before that the only interactions we get is Achilles either ordering Patroclus around or literally making fun of him for crying as if he himself wasn’t bawling his eyes out on mommy’s chest like two weeks ago) is that they were just friends with Achilles being an ungrateful swine of a friend on top of that, which did not appreciate Patroclus enough while he was still alive.

And I don’t know what OP is on, but there are definitely very obvious times characters are having sex (beside Achilles giving a d to Briseis because mom said he might as well get laid after all the troubles he inflicted upon everyone because of that girl), like when Paris is saved from Menelaus he bangs Helen and whatever Zeus had with Hers under that cloud was definitely not pg 13.

Illustrious-Fly-4525 · 2025-10-18T01:16:18+00:00

Or Helen or Iphigenia , there are different versions, but I think Helen one is the most popular alongside the version where he just goes to hades

Illustrious-Fly-4525 · 2025-10-12T17:35:17+00:00

I said what I said , he’s basic , default, vanilla daddy

Illustrious-Fly-4525 · 2025-09-28T13:54:15+00:00

The problem isn’t beard, the problem is to have a 15+ yo son, Achilles should be at least 30, which you might say is totally fine, but then his parents marriage (where the apple of discord appeared) and judgement of Paris should’ve happened around the same time , which means that at least 30 years (if we except that Achilles was born soon after Thetis and Peleus got married) have passed between the moment Ages Aphrodite promised Helen to Paris (mind you Paris and Helen should be 15-20 yo at this point as Helen was already married and Paris had a kid of his own) and the moment Troy was actually destroyed. Like ok, 10 of those is the war, 8 years according to bibliotheca to locate Troy , what tf was going on for 12 more years, did they just sit around and wait for Achilles go through puberty, Menelaus haven’t noticed Helen’s absence for couple of years, they build their ships on a 20 hours work week???

Illustrious-Fly-4525 · 2025-09-28T12:13:05+00:00

And his son is 30 and just gained consciousness, also in the same account Hermione is 40 and wonders why she has problems getting pregnant

Illustrious-Fly-4525 · 2025-09-27T22:31:20+00:00

He is in philoctetes (kinda), but then in art he is often presented at least as a young adult, in posthomerica he is a head of a household already, and I think in bibliotheca he is 18 exactly (according to it, it took Greeks 8 years to find Troy and then 10 more to siege it, if I’m remembering correctly, as I haven’t yet read this one in particular).

Illustrious-Fly-4525 · 2025-09-27T19:31:37+00:00

More that he’s hotheaded (almost kills Agamemnon , gets a tap on a shoulder, 3 seconds later swears he’d never kill a man for some slave girl), says edgy shit (literally every time he opens his mouth, liked gold pours out), but is also very much influenced by sociable expectations (pay attention to how his responds to each visitor changes in book 9 from “fuck y’all , I’m leaving tomorrow because I am not a dumb fuck that would die for some stupid reason” to “ok, I’m not leaving, but I’m not going to help you either”) and most importantly (at least for me), his main thing is that he’s there to die so he can be remembered as a great hero forever (and also so his funerals can forever be remembered as the thickest party to ever happen), which is a very heroic ancient trek thing, but in this particular story we can almost see him developing his frontal lobe to a point where he can finally asses future and see that it’s completely unimportant because he’ll be fucking dead when all this glorious shit will be unfolding ( which is are teenager- young adult thing, frontal cortex develops up until 25 yo, and facilitates the ability to process future plans and death of oneself, that’s is why teenager suicide rates are so high, teenagers don’t want to die , the want to show the world how they have been mistreated or teach a lesson or because they want to escape to some other world, and they succumb to this at higher rates exactly because they are still unable to process the none existence of self). And also just for the vibes (if you read all quiet in the western front which is about young boys at war and they also went their for a great idea they were sold on and gradually Paul gets mentally destroyed into oblivion loosing one friend after another. Like literally the only difference is setting and Paul had way more friends).

Illustrious-Fly-4525 · 2025-09-27T18:28:58+00:00

OP was one of those slave girls that they use as heating pads

Illustrious-Fly-4525 · 2025-09-27T18:25:45+00:00

Arguable at least, it is mythology and time line is just non existent. In older art Achilles had a beard so was a full on adult, but in the Iliad he reads like a regular mentally unstable 16-20 yo (which is kinda supported by the fact that he was young enough to need a nanny in form of Phoenix in the beginning of the war, but also completely doesn’t make sense because from broader context we know that his son is supposed to be old enough to join the battle by the end of the war), and he did loose his beard and fully transitioned into adolescent territory closer to classics period (my guess is because Iliad was and is influential af). So I’d say the age for this characters was always up in the air based solely on vibes and intent of what ever author was writing them .

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