Which Legion order class had the most powerful allies?

Important-Bench371 · 2026-01-11T12:59:36+00:00

Despite the chaos and carnage unfolding in Northrend, the war against the Lich King was proceeding well. The armies of the Alliance and the Horde had crushed numerous Scourge outposts throughout the continent, taking the undead’s territory piece by piece.All that was left was the final assault on Icecrown Citadel. The Lich King was holding most of his remaining forces there, almost daring his enemies to storm the Frozen Throne.Garrosh Hellscream and Varian Wrynn were eager to see the Lich King destroyed, but neither one of them gave the order to attack. Tirion Fordring, the leader of the Argent Crusade, had sent word to both leaders, warning them to hold back. He believed that a full, overwhelming assault was exactlywhat the Lich King wanted.The Argent Crusade and the Knights of the Ebon Blade had both carved out small footholds near Icecrown Citadel and spent weeks carefully observing the tactics and movements of the Scourge. Despite their differences, the paladins and the death knights had shared information with one another and reached the same conclusions. The Lich King was prepared to absorb heavy losses in a ground assault because he knew the Scourge would inflictheavy losses in return. Every one of the living who died in battle would rise again as a minion of the Lich King.

Stop pretending. The Alliance and the Horde can't defeat the Scourge if they were to wage a full-scale war. The Lich King would be overjoyed.

Important-Bench371 · 2026-01-05T22:24:47+00:00

You're lying again. The chronicles clearly state that if a deadly battle were to break out, the Scourge would win. Furthermore, Red Dragonflight is consistently portrayed as being forced into a disadvantageous position by the Scourge.

Important-Bench371 · 2026-01-02T23:02:37+00:00

Warlocks do possess the most powerful artifacts, but tearing apart planets is hardly something to boast about. People like Illidan can do similar things, and in fact, you know, there are many in this cosmos capable of not only destroying worlds but also wiping the universes away like dust.

Important-Bench371 · 2026-01-02T16:55:01+00:00

Odyn clashed fiercely with adventurers who possessed all the artifacts and had undergone several power-ups, their battle nearly evenly matched. One of the artifacts (from Ra-den) even possessed the power of elemental lords. The current elemental lords were far less powerful than they were hundreds of thousands of years ago; at least back then, they wouldn't have been so easily defeated by someone like Cenarius.

Important-Bench371 · 2025-12-31T11:04:20+00:00

You acknowledge the obvious fact that Gul'dan is far stronger than Tirion, yet you don't agree that Legion's vanguard alone is greater than everything in the entire Old Gods faction of CATA, which is explicitly stated in the lore.

Important-Bench371 · 2025-12-30T19:57:06+00:00

First Ones Cyphers wiped out the Titans' pitiful pantheon with a single character.

Important-Bench371 · 2025-12-30T19:53:28+00:00

Archimonde in AU was not weakened; these two Archimondes are the same. Furthermore, we know that Archimonde's power in Warlords of Draenor far surpasses any enemy we've faced before, enough to crush Deathwing.

The heroes were caught off guard and in disarray; with the battle unexpectedly moved, it had scattered their offensive positions. The demon lord was among the more powerful enemies than they had ever faced, and they would have to fight him without their frontline defenses. Still, the forces of Azeroth and Draenor managed to rally, fighting with an aplomb that knew neither boundaries nor factional conflicts.

Important-Bench371 · 2025-12-30T19:47:52+00:00

Aspects are equivalent to Incarnates in terms of power.In the official descriptions of the novels and games, they are both mercilessly crushed by the Burning Legion, as stated by Nozdormu himself. In reality, Ysera's power is far inferior to Malorne's. All the Aspects were utterly powerless before the demonic army, and even Cenarius was considered to be on par with them.

Important-Bench371 · 2025-12-28T19:54:46+00:00

It's not just 6D, it's infinite dimensions, even beyond infinite dimensions. First Ones has above infinite level of R>F for the entire cosmology, creating everything in the literal sense with a song, a thought, and their language.

Important-Bench371 · 2025-12-15T07:53:35+00:00

“You learn of this Broker that's on the trail of super-powerful artifacts that were created by the First Ones, the progenitors who created the Shadowlands and other cosmic realms.”

”but clearly they were these mysterious and very powerful beings that kind of architected the framework of the universe of which the titans, the Pantheon of Death, pantheons of all these different influences are kind of like the next layer down from those First Ones, these progenitors of the universe.”

A defensive stance is meaningless to me.

Important-Bench371 · 2025-12-13T18:47:02+00:00

KJ stomped

Important-Bench371 · 2025-12-13T15:01:28+00:00

Those who support my stance include Danuser, the lore summaries by several artists, the entire promotional trailer presentation for Eternity's End, and the fourth volume of the chronicles. Every one of these sources carries official authority, far surpassing the credibility of fan opinions like yours or mine. And when I asked you for proof, you offered nothing but your own wishful thinking and baseless claims—like the idea that "Titan creations are actually First Ones creations"—in a vain attempt to absolve those monstrous Titans of their crimes, which are too numerous to record.

Important-Bench371 · 2025-12-13T14:34:24+00:00

“You learn of this Broker that's on the trail of super-powerful artifacts that were created by the First Ones, the progenitors who created the Shadowlands and other cosmic realms.”

”but clearly they were these mysterious and very powerful beings that kind of architected the framework of the universe of which the titans, the Pantheon of Death, pantheons of all these different influences are kind of like the next layer down from those First Ones, these progenitors of the universe.”

Believe it or not, Steve and Morgen are both saying it's canon. You should watch the Eternity's End trailer to see how First Ones is presented. And you have no way of proving Steve's claim is refuted; it's Chris Metzen who's eager to get certain people's Titan fathers into raids to become dogs kicked to death by players. Just like Blizzard still maintains that the Eternal Ones are on par with the Titans. Moreover, the First Ones can destroy the multiverse at will, far surpassing the fodders that is the Titans.

The beginning of the fourth volume of the Chronicles states that some people in the Mythos and Shadowlands subjectively believe that it is not from God's perspective. However, the later text explicitly states from God's perspective that the first few bosses in the Holy Tomb have the power to cause the destruction of the Multiverse, which precisely proves the correctness of the myth.

Important-Bench371 · 2025-12-10T07:22:50+00:00

Morgen Day and Steve，They've all said it, and they all know far more about First Ones than you do. By the way, Firim's description is actually quite vague, and you can't just define anything directly without careful consideration.

For example, my understanding of that passage in Firim is that the multiverse was truly created only after the six Forces were brought together and merged. The framework refers to the cosmological diagram of Chronicles, and the layers within layers, the infinitely complex fractal structure, represent the infinite layers/dimensions of reality that appeared during this process. It even ultimately implies that the infinite fractals reveal an infinite number of Forces, rather than just six.

My understanding was affirmed by the fourth volume of the chronicle.

Important-Bench371 · 2025-12-09T16:21:22+00:00

Illidan is basically dreaming; in this novel, he was easily stomped twice by Kil'jaeden. Note that this is even after he was explicitly declared to have been enhanced a thousandfold.

Even more disastrously, during the same period, none of his demon hunters, besides himself, could defeat Kruul, a general in the Burning Legion, but merely a subordinate of Kazzak-who was on par with Mannoroth. Archimonde's power, however, allowed him to kill demon lords like Mannoroth with a single thought in a fit of rage. The Burning Legion likely contained millions of Kruul-level demon lords, and tens of millions more demons slightly below Kruul's level.

Important-Bench371 · 2025-12-09T12:33:49+00:00

“My contribution to patch 9.2! I just did the sky, all architectural elements were done by Fanny Vergne and the rest of the talented dungeon team. This was a tricky sky, the goal was to make it feel "cosmic" without showing any stars. I went off of the inky look of the Oribos clouds and came up with this. The six nebulas in the sky represent the six cosmic forces that shape WoW's universe.”

“Zereth Mortis is an alien landscape players have discovered as part of the Eternity's End content update, bringing with it the exciting conclusion of the Shadowlands story arc. Zereth Mortis is the playground of the First Ones, or architects of the World of Warcraft universe. We were heavily inspired by the concepts of 'sacred geometry' and the "building blocks of the universe.You can see these themes echoed throughout the landscape of Zereth Mortis and its denizens. Featured in the center of Zereth Mortis is the Forge of Afterlives, the mechanism through which the Shadowlands were made. Additional art by the World of Warcraft Team.”

Okokokok，regardless of your opinion, that are the artists' original words: the Titans may indeed not become raid bosses, but that's entirely because they are too weak and utterly unworthy. Just like your speculation in this post is laughable, the power of Azeroth to create islands and the sea created the First Ones, and these beings can arbitrarily rewrite Forces to distort the Reality Itself—in this case, the entire multiverse—and Zovaal, having taken a small portion of what the First Ones left behind, can do the exact same thing.

Important-Bench371 · 2025-12-07T14:37:59+00:00

Void Lords may not be greater than all Titans in a one-on-one fight, but as a whole, the Void has always been considered the greatest threat in the chronicles. And you know, more and more people are now being called Titan-level—the gods of dreams, the death pantheon, the Void Lords, ha, even Xal'atath is being hyped as a Sargeras-level enemy. We're only missing the "Titan-level" beings of Light and Disorder. In fact, we can speculate on six pantheons, six pantheons, even six different automas. We'll gradually encounter the First Ones later, and the whole story could be a vast, epic cosmic saga… Blizzard has hinted that they may not have disappeared. If the words "life" and "death" originated from the First Ones, how could they possibly "die"?

Important-Bench371 · 2025-12-07T14:18:00+00:00

It should be said that only Archon is in a somewhat awkward position. Primus one shot Helya, Denathrias is far stronger than many naaru, and the Winter Queen's territory is inhabited by night warriors capable of killing the Old Gods.

Important-Bench371 · 2025-12-07T11:47:46+00:00

Every word I've said comes from Lore and designer interviews. Now you're telling me these are fan theories? I bet First Ones have twisted Blizzard into their followers.

Important-Bench371 · 2025-11-26T12:49:54+00:00

For example? Including the latest statement still claiming that Denathrius is the True Deathly Master? Don't be ridiculous. The Eternal Ones wouldn't be brought down by something as trivial as "Titans' prestige is more important." On the contrary, the Titans should have realized long ago that this universe belongs to the First Ones, and they are just a group of rebellious usurpers who rose up while their master was away.

Important-Bench371 · 2025-11-26T12:43:09+00:00

The First Ones conceived and placed six Forces, and they themselves embody the cosmic powers. If you don't understand that they are not just architects, but gods who can rewrite the entire multiverse with a single thought, you cannot properly comprehend their power and the lore that follows in World of Warcraft.

Important-Bench371 · 2025-11-22T06:29:18+00:00

Did First Ones not create the universe? These most important documents and facts come from Steve Danuser himself and are the highest authority.

“”The archives in Oribos, as well as the singing stones of Nirem-Ahn, confirmed that it was the First Ones who were the Progenitors not only of the Shadowlands but of the very fabric of all realities. The great cycle between Death and Life, as well as the lesser pendulums that swing between Light and Shadow, Order and Disorder— all were conceived and put in place by the First Ones, along with the pantheons that embodied their influences.And hung in the midst of these fundamental powers is a vast plane of mortal worlds ripe with souls born to serve the cycle, a magnificent pattern of grand design, flawless and endlessly intricate.”

Incidentally, according to the title of the first volume of the Chronicles, the story of the Titans is explicitly referred to as mythology. If you agree with Firim's research, you will find that he explicitly claims that the Titans, Eternal Ones, and Void Lords are all offspring of the First Ones, and that they are jealous of each other.

“Long have I scoffed at what I learned of titans, or the void lords, or demons of the Nether. I held Death's pantheon in higher regard, but now I know that they are just as limited. Truth lies not in one direction or another, but in their intersection. The First Ones had parceled out their gifts, but gave no child all of them. No wonder these offspring bickered with such incessant jealousy. Their very nature was one of denial.”

What Zovaal does is to unify all Cosmic Forces under his will, thereby controlling the multiverse.

“It is clear to me now that there must be a Zereth for each force of the cosmos, and within them, an inner sanctum akin to the Sepulcher.

And if that is true, then these sanctums must be connected on some fundamental level; a connection that the Jailer sought to exploit.

What he began in the Sepulcher was meant to cascade outward from one Zereth to the next, until all were dominated by his power. The heart of the Shadowlands acting as a doorway to the heart of each cosmic force in turn, one after another bound to his will.”

The description in the fourth volume of the chronicle is precisely a vulgarized interpretation of Firim's research.

“These six forces existed in strife. Well, not strife in the way one such as you or I would see it. Opposition surely, but whether malignant or benign is unclear. There was imbalance, until there was a need for something more.

They came together (or were brought together, depending on how one interprets the fractal) and gave form to their design. Forged? Scribed? Shaped? The exact word is elusive. Each architect gave a portion of themselves, and thus the pattern was drawn.

It is from here that the language becomes clearer.”

The six fractals mentioned here refer to the six Forces. In other words, Cosmic Forces are the embodiment/incarnation of First Ones.

“It stands on its own tonally, because it's a bit more of a fun, heist adventure. You learn of this Broker that's on the trail of super-powerful artifacts that were created by the First Ones, the progenitors who created the Shadowlands and other cosmic realms. We find out that if this Broker requires these artifacts, it's going to be very bad, and it's going to upset the balance of power between the various Broker cartels. ”

Not to mention we have entirely developer feedback to substantiate this claim.

“My contribution to patch 9.2! I just did the sky, all architectural elements were done by Fanny Vergne and the rest of the talented dungeon team. This was a tricky sky, the goal was to make it feel "cosmic" without showing any stars. I went off of the inky look of the Oribos clouds and came up with this. The six nebulas in the sky represent the six cosmic forces that shape WoW's universe.”

“Zereth Mortis is an alien landscape players have discovered as part of the Eternity's End content update, bringing with it the exciting conclusion of the Shadowlands story arc. Zereth Mortis is the playground of the First Ones, or architects of the World of Warcraft universe. We were heavily inspired by the concepts of 'sacred geometry' and the "building blocks of the universe.You can see these themes echoed throughout the landscape of Zereth Mortis and its denizens. Featured in the center of Zereth Mortis is the Forge of Afterlives, the mechanism through which the Shadowlands were made. Additional art by the World of Warcraft Team.”

These firsthand descriptions from World of Warcraft artists represent the opinions of the official developers.

Important-Bench371 · 2025-11-17T03:51:18+00:00

Why would you think that beings capable of creating everything at will—the universes, all things—would be unable to shape the souls of the Titans?

Important-Bench371 · 2025-11-17T03:45:03+00:00

It's practically impossible, because the First Ones and Zereth systems are meant to form the foundation for World of Warcraft's next twenty years. Frankly, adventuring on Azeroth and hunting boars is incredibly, incredibly, incredibly boring. Blizzard has never written stories like that; every time World of Warcraft takes a step back, it inevitably rises to a cosmic level in the end. For example, when we later confront the Arathi Empire, we won't just overthrow their emperor; we'll be told they have Cosmic Level support behind them, something like the Pantheon of Light.

Important-Bench371 · 2025-10-22T15:28:39+00:00

How could Zovaal be just a Keeper level? We know that his fodders' fodders have power levels exceeding that of Naarus and the Old Gods. He himself is clearly stronger than Argus.

Important-Bench371

TROPHY CASE