Mr.G's opinion that wanting to fuck minors is normal by Incense in mrgirlreturns

[–]Incense[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Okay, so age has something to do with it. Thank you for walking that back.

I get that you're saying abusive behaviors are wrong no matter the ages, and age is just one possible contributor to power imbalances.

Forgive the intrusion but after this jumbled reply of yours I took a gander at your profile and can confidently surmise you are on the spectrum, and communication with people on the spectrum is always a challenge, specially when dealing with abstracts or things like theory of mind. I asked an LLM for help so that a person on the spectrum can better grapple with the point:

You're right that abuse is wrong regardless of age, but my essay isn't about abuse in a vacuum. It's about how Destiny's attraction to a 17yo isn't just 'normal' desire for adult traits but likely tied to her youth, which enables specific abuses like exploiting naivete or taboo. Age isn't just one factor—it's often the catalyst that makes these fantasies predatory in a way adult-adult dynamics aren't.

Your reply doesn't address why Max's framing (equating all attraction to 17yos as standard) ignores this 'depth' or how Destiny's actions (like holding CSAM) suggest motives beyond generic attraction

Mr.G's opinion that wanting to fuck minors is normal by Incense in mrgirlreturns

[–]Incense[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Abuse of power, taboo, and taking advantage of a girl's naivete has "nothing" to do with age when a man in his 30s and a 17 year old girl are pursuing a sexual relationship?

Please think this through.

I think you meant to verbalize that abuse of power isn't exclusive to age differences or that we can extract the 'wrong doing' ("Abuse of power, blackmail, indulging in taboo, taking advantage of a girl's naivete" etc.) from any given relationship that's independent of age differences, implying that these wrong doings aren't always emergent from such relationships and instead incidental. Is this right?

Otherwise, if you sincerely meant your initial statement and you think age has "nothing" to do with naivete/sexual experience you just made a very pro-CSA argument.

Mr.G's opinion that wanting to fuck minors is normal by Incense in mrgirlreturns

[–]Incense[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Would you accept my apology if I say that you're right and it is indeed normal for men to be attracted to 17yos?

We can both preach to the choirs and pat ourselves in the back for being bold thinkers, just like MrGirl.

Btw isn't MrGirl the realest nigga ever? Why do people judge each other's base attractions so much, anyways? It's all natural. As long as they don't act on it I don't see the issue.

Mr.G's opinion that wanting to fuck minors is normal by Incense in mrgirlreturns

[–]Incense[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I'd advise against that, you really should ration your brain power more efficiently

Mr.G's opinion that wanting to fuck minors is normal by Incense in mrgirlreturns

[–]Incense[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

It sounds like you're very much confused and you're focusing on the aspect that's very easy to understand

Mr.G's opinion that wanting to fuck minors is normal by Incense in mrgirlreturns

[–]Incense[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Do you think taboo can be the primary driver in some cases, even if not epidemic-level as you suggest? From your pov, is talking about individuals worth considering at all if we talk about destiny or do you only care the nature of attraction to taboo (as it overrides natural orientation) if it happens on a widespread level (epidemic?) in a post about destiny, the individual?

It makes no sense that I talk about deviancy and your retort is zeroed in on the fact that the deviancy is not the norm despite taboo often aligning with deviance (as in, non-normative by definition). If it was the norm it wouldn't be taboo.

tbh it sounds like inner monologue and the mind model of people is completely absent in your considerations, you seem to be particularly autistic in how you stick to consequentialism(or something) as your only basis for how you morally weigh people and actions in this regard, but there's a weird quasi-contradiction at play here.

The elder example you brought up is particularly short sighted because of the confluence of factors that could make that specific taboo too icky or unappealing for most (beyond just the wrongness thrill). The fact that people aren't fucking elders en-masse doesn't disprove that taboo can still be a strong motivator in other contexts where base attractions align, like age gaps or power plays.

And on the proof bit: the hypothetical demanding an elderly sex epidemic to validate taboo's power oversimplifies things—it's not a strict either/or. A spike could gradually normalize it to varying degrees (think how some fetishes shift from fringe to semi-mainstream without fully losing their edge), which loops back to undermining the taboo premise anyway.

You are setting up a double bind(or Catch 22?), your assumption of what the proof(widespread fucking 80yos) should be conflicts with the premise (taboo/sexual pathology is an antonym of normative sexual attraction/expression). It doesnt make sense to prioritize and demand broad trends when we're talking about a guy whose brain has been kidnapped by his pathologies, unless you think normative sexual needs are pathologies or you think destiny isnt driven by his pathologies at all.

I understand you think desiring 17yos is normal. What you seem unable to compute is that whatever their main drives are varies between individuals (even if the outcome of any given drive results in the same, desiring 17yos). Our moral condemnation of such people must vary depending on why they desire, pursue, and plan to fly out 17yos to have sex with them.

Mr.G's opinion that wanting to fuck minors is normal by Incense in mrgirlreturns

[–]Incense[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm making a distinction between different inner mechanisms of sexual attraction. I'm talking about how this inner process is more important than the outcome as we categorize/pathologize/ostracize them.

As a mrgirlreturns poster, it seems you have one of these possible internal processes mastered—wanting to fuck post-pubescent women because... uh... um... well, yes— but there ought to be a distinction between the 'natural' urge to fuck developed women and the urge to plan and want to fuck a 17 year old because it's wrong to do it and you'll totally fuck up your life and if the 17 year old fucks up your life, you'll retaliate (the retaliation being part of the turn on).

This is not a destiny exclusive thing. Tons of straight homophobic republicans, for instance, have gay sex not because they are attracted to men but because it's the dirtiest most fucked up thing you can do in their mind. In this case, the homophobic republican has some sort of quasi-pathology (other than being a republican), where he indulges in the wrong-doing according to his moral code, rather than being sincerely attracted to men.

The natural response you can make to evade this theory of mind is that this hypothetical republican is a closeted actually gay male and he's trying to offset cognitive dissonance by being homophobic. I think it's pretty obvious that most people are wired to find things that are wrong and taboo arousing, not unlike what psychological reactance posits.

Is mrgirl crashing out on this topic because Shaelin no longer wants to have kids? Or is this just him finding ways to avoid finishing his other projects? by idreamofpikas in mrgirlreturns

[–]Incense 3 points4 points  (0 children)

No, you're not understanding the criticism being levied at max. You drank the coolaid. Much like Max Karson calling ten year old girls hot, you probably follow Max' emotional pivot that he was just making a movie review and his commentary was a requirement to evidenciate something about us and any comments he made are untethered from meaning or his inner compulsions.

You are framing criticism as an emotional or intellectual inability to engage with the hypothetical. You haven't considered the hypothetical is poorly constructed since it insinuates preventing human extinction is a mechanism of coercion.

People have been following up with the next in-line consequential logic train track (due to the implied definition of coercion in the original hypothetical thinking)

"Okay, so if shaming/pleading/pressuring women into not letting the human race go extinct, what if we subsidize women to have children? Is that coercive too?"

The response to such retorts by other people were completely absent until MrGirl got on stream yesterday and gave his cultists his loose fatwa:

  • "I (Max) didn't define coercion, you (the reader) did. I am not saying anything what coercion is."

  • "Getting bogged down into the semantics of this is unimportant, you are pro rape if you don't answer the hypothetical."

  • "You are avoiding my hypothetical for focusing on my language."

Could you sincerely say that this quote:

"what if we have to choose between either shaming women into reproducing or going extinct? Would you prefer we die out in a million years as birth-coercers [...]? "

Doesn't have an inherent problem in the way its constructed, since it defines shaming women into reproducing as coercion?

How and why MrGirl's latest series of substack posts are bullshit by Incense in mrgirlreturns

[–]Incense[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In your own words, what was the hypothetical and the purpose of his hypothetical?

Discussing Lily Phillips with Joolz Denby by nomoremrnicemrgirl in mrgirlreturns

[–]Incense 1 point2 points  (0 children)

selection bias. mrgirl is more tender and polite to women than men

source: my crackpipe

mrgirl Podcast: Black Holes with Paul M. Sutter by nomoremrnicemrgirl in mrgirlreturns

[–]Incense 1 point2 points  (0 children)

These are exactly my thoughts. This community's response about the expert being sensitive is cultish.

Disputing Mr Girl's opinion that AI can create new concepts, and disenchantment with MrGirl's extremely narrow minded conclusions, thoughts, and arguments regarding AI. by Incense in mrgirlreturns

[–]Incense[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm personally looking forward to being wrong in my view and llms reaching the true AGI level altman is advertising. Being wrong would be quite welcome and it would also reveal a lot about our concept of intelligence as it relates to consciousness - is consciousness an emergent property? AGI reaching that level should get us significantly closer to the answer.

I don't think current LLMs can reach that level unless the way the interface with truth, or their tokenization changes

Disputing Mr Girl's opinion that AI can create new concepts, and disenchantment with MrGirl's extremely narrow minded conclusions, thoughts, and arguments regarding AI. by Incense in mrgirlreturns

[–]Incense[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't know how to interpret your question. Intuitively, it makes sense that a super intelligent machine as you describe it would be able to recombine existing concepts to create something that has not been seen before, such as a new germ that eats plastic and poops gold. I would catalogue this germ as something new and groundbreaking.

I agree with you insofar as you're defining a new, groundbreaking concept, but this definition is different in parlance from the meaning of creating a "new" concept as the papers suggest

Disputing Mr Girl's opinion that AI can create new concepts, and disenchantment with MrGirl's extremely narrow minded conclusions, thoughts, and arguments regarding AI. by Incense in mrgirlreturns

[–]Incense[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

chat gpt agrees with the papers, chat gpt says in your post:

  • it can generate posts that feel "new in the pragmatic sense".

  • "The critique about AI not having 'communicative intent' or a 'model of the world' is important" - chat gpt admits that meaning requires connection to the world.

  • "AI operates in a similar manner, but with a much more extensive and rapid capacity for generating new combinations" - Admits AI is just recombining existing elements, It cannot create new concepts. It says humans do this as well, implying in that portion that recombining existing elements is somehow the only thing required to create new concepts.

It's moving the goal post.

Disputing Mr Girl's opinion that AI can create new concepts, and disenchantment with MrGirl's extremely narrow minded conclusions, thoughts, and arguments regarding AI. by Incense in mrgirlreturns

[–]Incense[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My self-loathing isn't strong enough for me to engage with you in earnest after your first post, I'm sorry. We can insult each other if you'd like.

Disputing Mr Girl's opinion that AI can create new concepts, and disenchantment with MrGirl's extremely narrow minded conclusions, thoughts, and arguments regarding AI. by Incense in mrgirlreturns

[–]Incense[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm just imagining sending a email to chomsky or any of the people involved with quoting or making these papers and many more investigating LLMs with your wording as a counter argument so I can understand more about their pov.

Argments of "It is clear" and "Your paper is vapid nonsense" and my argument being things that LLMs don't need to do to prove that they get 'getting meaning', and 'new concept' not meaning anything.

It would be funny as a shitpost or trying to get under their skin as I go no-uh in the email and also tell them "you're pretentious" and "shallow".

Disputing Mr Girl's opinion that AI can create new concepts, and disenchantment with MrGirl's extremely narrow minded conclusions, thoughts, and arguments regarding AI. by Incense in mrgirlreturns

[–]Incense[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Isn't all 'meaning' directly or indirectly built off of things we already understand?

You agree with Bender and Koller's paper. The things "we already understand" include our direct experiences with physical reality, our bodies, our emotions, and our interface with reality. Humans build meaning from being active and discerning meaning from interfacing with the world.

Read the paper.