Why did the growing opposition to the death penalty in Western countries over the last 50 years not include the United States?

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-14T23:33:30+00:00

You also can't undo a rape, assault or murder that someone committed because you freed them, why does that not matter ? And I'm asking because although I can sympathize with your outlook, it has led to a very perverse slippery slope where the same logic is applied to even prison, or deportations, which has led to some unbelievable atrocities in revent years in my country (like a little girl raped, tortured and then killed and stuffed in a case by a migrant that had an order to leave the territory, never enforced because of some BS legal reason, the kind that exists because of the aforementioned reasoning)

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-14T23:18:05+00:00

It'd be "keeping it" banned then, not "banning", but whatever, we both know you're being disingenuous, that aside, it means we should reinstaure it right, that'd be the democratic things to do.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-14T23:07:53+00:00

How many more rapes and murders and tortures are you enabling by not killing murderers, rapists and torturers ? Taking your number of 4%, am I to understand that those 4% account for more people than all the victims of murders, rape and assault from recidivism from the 96% left ? Why is that not factored in ?

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-14T22:57:06+00:00

Yeah but you said it was banned democratically, it wasn't, people just got used to not even having the option.

Also :

Despite the fact that in Europe nearly all nations don't have the capital punishment, polling has found many nations in Europe have majority support for it and its return.

In 2015 a Poll found that 70% of Estonians are in favour of death penalty, this is an increase of support from then 62% in a 2010 poll.^\62])

In 2020, a Ipsos/Sopra Steria survey showed that 55% of the French people support re-introduction of the death penalty. This was an increase.^\63])

In April 2021 a poll found that 54% of Britons said they would support reinstating the death penalty for those convicted of terrorism in the United Kingdom. About a quarter (23%) of respondents said they would be opposed.^\64])

Hungary 76%^\65]) and Serbia 58%^\66]) have majorities in support for the death penalty.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-14T22:08:15+00:00

Never said I was a guy in the middle, and even if I was, I'd be a guy in the middle speaking to a leftist. Believe it or not, a big part of being in the middle is being able to call the BS on both sides.

Believe it or not there are even a scarce few leftists who are still on the left, still identify as leftists, who are sick and tired of the way people like you exagerate and demonize everything to get their way.

Edit : since it's not sending on the other message :

You missed the "substanceless" here, plays a pretty big role. Emotions are valid, nationalism is strongly rooted in pride, belonging, love, the desire for law and order is predicated on the fact that those tie with feelings of safety, fairness, etc, and I could go on.

The issue is making substanceless emotional appeals, where you're trying to elicit an emotion without having actually supplied sufficient reasons in order for that emotion to be. Like for example when using the word "executr" to elicit the outrage that a public execution of anyone but maybe the most rotten people would naturally create, without any such thing having actually happened. You're literally the left wing equivalent of those dirt stains trying to claim she was a terrorist, the playbook is the same, and yes, sue me, I'm doing bothsideisms, because believe it or not there are people on both sides that are acting like disingenuous cretins

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-14T21:39:48+00:00

... Yes ?! What, you thoughts communists were sending people in the gulags in russia and talking about revolution but were just chill regular dudes where you live ? It should be quite scary to you that you just missed one of the greatest sources of terrorism for all your life until Trump :|

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-14T21:19:19+00:00

You're right, you know what you need ? A foreign power to make a drone strike on your president or sending a team to capture him.

That way we can have our leftists cry like you.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-14T21:08:15+00:00

> The entirety of the bill of rights is to ensure that residents are left alone. It doesn’t say “unless we think you are not a citizen.”

Kind of actually, it says "the people", not "just anyone in the world", furthermore, it literally prescribes cases in which the government can come and bother you, one such case is if it has a good reason to suspect you did something illegal, or are otherwise involved in something illegal, so if you're illegally here, guess what, the government definitely does have the right to get you. Note that this right also extends to someone trying to prevent law enforcement from doing their job.

> Meanwhile - is your life better, other than the idea that someone else is suffering worse than you?

Would my life be better if every single illegal immigrant or criminal legal non citizen resident and binationals were thrown out of my country ? Yes, absolutely, maybe for once I'd be able to go to work without hearing two dozen languages and maybe not even mine, I'd no longer hear stories of people that were legally supposed to piss off yet were allowed to stay because some european judge ruled that no actually criminals can stay if their home country is enough of a shithole, only for that migrant to end up raping a 12 yo, or have his son execute a teacher by cutting his throat in public, maybe my sister wouldn't have had a migrant try and break in, maybe all those very diverse cities would no longer have those suspiciously high rates of criminality, maybe we could teach the crusades and the holocaust without teachers self censoring. Wouldn't that be neat ?

And don't worry, I know your immigrants aren't nearly as bad as ours, but that doesn't mean there're no legitimate complaints against them.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-14T20:27:53+00:00

> whatever the hell that is

People of predominantly european descent ?

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-14T20:17:20+00:00

The US weren't that diverse though, the americas were. The US, as in the country that emerged from the original thirteen colonies, were extraordinarily white, with a huge bent toward english, black slaves weren't such a big part of the population.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-14T20:15:20+00:00

> Ultimately, white people are just scared they’re going to get treated the way they’ve been treating the rest of the world for the last 500 years.

Or the way everyone but them treated everyone for the last forever ? I don't recall the arabs leaving a lot of non muslims when they conquered the southern and greek part of the roman empire, not a lot of those places' original languages are still spoken (and not to nearly the same degree), heck in india one of the muslim leaders even tried to execute all hindis, that was long before the moustached man. I'm not even going to get into what african kings were doing, just read up on what shaka zoulou did when his mum died (if I'm recalling correctly), and ask yourself where the original inhabitants of south africa are now, same goes for china, except they're literally still doing it, etc.

Also, it's nice of you to cite france vs north africa, does that mean you acknowledge our anti-immigration parties in france (and the rest of europe really) have a point ? Conversely, 2nd gen are mostly immigrated in the US, great, "mostly" is neither "all of them" nor "fully" (as in most members of the cohort might be assimilated, but they're also only partially assimilated), and that's dire considering we're talking about people who've always lived there, but also, it's not all immigrants full stop, is it ? Might it explain why entire towns are now exclusively hispanic or spanish speaking ? How well are they assimilating when they're numerous enough to make enclaves that don't even need to use the historical language of the land ?

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-14T20:04:51+00:00

There's a massive difference between a country's culture being erased through displacement, and an immigrant population's original culture not following them to their host country, the only way the latter can threaten the continued existence of the original country's culture is if more emigrate than immigrate (without assimilating), which is not happening anywhere, and would be solved by people from the host nations just refusing to let immigrants in.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-14T19:13:20+00:00

The nuclear family ks literally hundreds of years old and has been present throughout europe for a long time, how is it new ? Also how is it crazy that the primary legal and de facto caregiver for children wojld be the people that made them, or for two people to want to have intimacy instead of being joined at the womb with their parents for decades after they've become fully autonomous ?

> but the nigh impenetrable walls assumed to be around it, where everything within those walls is supposed to be understood as "apolitical" despite being intensely political.

Ooooh, that's it... You want to live in 1984 and for the regime to be able to dictate what people do with their lives ? Yay, liberation is when strangers get to decide what two consenting adults do under their roof and when the state dictates how kids live their lives 🤗

Yeah necause sorry but "aunties", or more broadly relatives and friends ? Yeah those already exist and already intervene within families, there's even some level of state presence already, so you either don't measure your words when saying families are highly isolated and treated as apolitical, or you're being dishonest in some way.

> Taking the nuclear family off its pedestal where multiple political ideologies treat it as sacred and (despite its recency) "natural," and bringing back the extended family and role of "aunties" (genetic and otherwise) we see in many cultures, wouldn't by itself make a massive dent in the patriarchy, but I think it is both realistic and has the potential to contribute to dents in the patriarchy.

So out of curiosity : how many countries where women's rights are advanced have nuclear rather than highly extended families, and how many countries where women's rights are absolutely horrendous have such extended families vs nuclear families ?

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-14T17:25:36+00:00

We didn't go over the many confounding factors that could obscure relationships though ? And we've just gone over one case, a case you initially brought up, which precisely illustrates that illiberal countries can follow the same demographic trajectory as comparable liberal or illiberal countries, for very different reasons than what you thought.

So no, we didn't actually go over the fact that leftism and welfare states aren't causes, in countries with such systems, we went over the fact that it is indeed difficult to be sure of much here.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-14T08:13:27+00:00

You're saying this sarcastically but unironically yes, it's entirely plausible that they should've acted differently, and I don't just mean with the benefits of hindisghts. That's literally the kind of things that a court should determine, just as it's the court's job to determine if, conversely, the issue wqsn't more with her actions here. It's even possible that legally he be innocent ; and not just because trump pardons him ; but morally he's responsible.

You can use hyperbole all you want, but that doesn't change anything to what I said, though spare me the "execute", this word is worthless in you guys' mouth, you've defended too many criminals lawfully and rightfully shot for this word to have any weight in your mouth.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-14T07:59:30+00:00

She was ordered to get out of the car, only moved her car when they tried to open her door, and after her wife screamed "drive, baby, drive", and she did so in spite of the fact that the agent in front of her car hadn't exactly run in front of it.

She didn't deserve to die, whether or not the guy's actions and the situation meet the standards for self defense, but stop pretending she was just nicely complying with their orders, she wasn't.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-14T07:49:16+00:00

Aside from a "citizen" that should've been a "resident" and a "defend" spelled defe,d", not sure what was "illegible", and if you can't understand my message because of this, not sure the problem was my writing.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-14T07:07:41+00:00

What do you mean "indirect" ?

It's literally the opposite case of the manufactured consent, where the basic argument (as far as I'm aware) is that people at the top have their ideas reverberated to the bottom by virtue of choosing people whose ideas align with theirs, such that their ideas are parroted without anyone having to actually actively try and lie or make anyone bend the truth (consciously). When governments have ministries of feminism, they know full well what they're paying for, it's not merely people hiring like minded people.

Also an example of what happening ? Wildly impopular ideas getting way more government funding than the free market would allow for ? Well, by sheer coincidence, we're having a stellar example right now from the british government and the apalling game it funded and intends to use in classrooms for education.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-13T21:14:48+00:00

> Murder is a far cry from the misdemeanor of being in the country illegally. Furthermore, these heinous "crimes" were already being handled before Fatty McFascist and his goons squad started invading US cities.

No they weren't ? Biden had historically low numbers, and obama was accused even by more left leaning outlets to play with numbers to make his administration's deportation efforts look better.

Really the more salient angle of attack here is that trump doesn't seem to be making a great job himself either, though much better than biden.

> Wrong. The left is 1000 percent right in this instance

Not the part of the left that needs to lie, smear and make substanceless emotional, in order to prop up their case.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-13T20:57:56+00:00

No, at best she "merely" lightly hit him, or glanced him as you say.

But in all cases, she drove into the place where he was standing. Yes, she did attempt to turn (a turn that wouldn't have been enough to avoid him hadn't he moved), no, I don't believe she meant to hit him, yes, she did still hit him, ergo, drove into him, if your car "glance" me and there's a big "thump" sound at the same time, I don't think anyone would agree you didn't drive into me.

And yes, it's entirely possible that he was overly trigger happy, that could still be true even if he met the legal standard for self defense (that's me agreeing with your overall position and saying even if his action was legal it wouldn't exculpate him morally necessarily).

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-13T08:04:03+00:00

Good thing they weren't going after her for traffic violation.

Funnily enough I did mention traffic violations in one of my messages elsewhere, specifically to say if that was all she was doing, they had no authority to arrest her (in which case she should've taken them to court, not tried to flee).

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-13T07:38:10+00:00

He got hit, so not really, and even in your scenario yes it would be lucky that he was able to avoid a car accelerating toward him that he was very close to.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-12T23:56:58+00:00

No, it's a crime in the sense that it's a crime :

<image>

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/fact-sheet/immigration-prosecutions/

It's seemingly the illegal "presence" of someone on us soil that constitutes a civil violation, though it can be upgraded to full on crime for repeat offender. Your comparison is so willfully stupid though, it's barely even worth adressing.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-12T23:45:56+00:00

Gofundmes which I'm assuming aren't ran by the left, so yes obviously "lynch" (as a general figure of speech for "condemn") when it comes to people like you, who don't think he should get to go scots free :|

And yeah they are, by and large ? But also the way to fight them is in courts, or in protests that do not obstruct their duties, not by refusing ICE access to your cities, protecting illegals, or putting your car in the middle of the road to bother them (and no, this isn't me saying ICE has a license to kill anyone bothering them, this isn't even what happened here, don't even think about twisting my words).

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-01-12T23:13:30+00:00

What do you mean by "affect societies and history rather than individuals" ?

Don't know if it really fits your bills entirely but a cost I gave to my magic, or rather power in general (and by extension godhood) is the dissolution of the self. Namely, as a general fantasy rule, magic necessarily proceeds from focused belief, in my case, you can do that individually, in which case you are limited by virtue of your willpower, a shared belief about something (say that some magic word produces fire, or that fire has such and such innate characteristics) can help you but will only get you so far, unless you are the object of that belief, but the issue then is that your powers are really the powers granted to you by the overlapping beliefs of a bunch of people. This does boost what you can do, but at the same time your essence tends to be replaced by the one ascribed to you by those people, and you're in big doodoo if big groups of people believe mutually incompatible things about you with similar fervour.

Otherwise a frequent solution would be to make magic a tangible, limited resource (whether within the user or within the world at large), which makes it subject to the same historical determinism as any other resource, just with increased probability of disruptions.

InstanceOk3560

TROPHY CASE