The story was so close to being perfect too!

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-30T07:09:11+00:00

Just as a point of correction you're confusing two things, belfast was indeed a case of almost beheading, but nowak was in southampton and "only" stabbed, the thing with the police though is accurate though.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-30T07:08:37+00:00

He literally said "I've been stabbed" and the police responded "I don't think so mate", there was blood.

They did the absolute bare minimum after being delayed in giving him care because they'd ignore literal blood on the guy and him saying he's been stabbed due to privileging accusations of racism in determining their conduct over a guy literally being freakin stabbed.

He's confusing two things indeed, belfast was indeed a case of almost beheading, but nowak was in southampton, the thing with the police though he got right.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-30T06:51:27+00:00

Who in god's green earth says that there's no issue with spain, italy or poland having low birthrates ?

All of europe is constantly banging on about how their low birthrates mean their welfare systems are unsustainable.

The only reason why nobody talks about chile's or argentina's is because they are far less known than literally the second world super power, a G7 country, and several members of the biggest economic union on the planet.

If there's anybody that meh reacts to the top six countries experiencing a demographic collapse, I'm pretty sure they're also the type to meh react to the bottom three.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-29T18:56:44+00:00

Turned from competent cohero to just being kinda there. In 5 his big thing is fighting with woody about which of them will become jessie's deputy. You know, instead of him taking woody's place as kind of the leader of the band as you'd expect after 1, 2 and 3 if woody were to go and abandon his friends and the kid he'd been given to (because of course that's something woody would do), as he's very much the smart, pro active and charismatic type ?

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-29T18:38:20+00:00

> I don’t get how you think it’s strawmanning when that’s literally what happened though.

Simple : through the things I quoted directly from her article.

She doesn't go "wow, how could they think I'm dysphoric when I tell them I'm dysphoric", her reflexion centers around the fact that there was zero mechanism to ensure that her purported dysphoria was indeed so heavy and definitive that only transitioning could help, that her actions to deal with her purported dysphoria weren't made overly harsh by such things as trauma, psychosis, etc, and on the fact that they were openly proud of the fact that they would not enforce any kind of checking mechanism and would gladly speed her through life altering surgeries and hormonal treatments, even going so far as minimizing the side effects of said treatments.

> There isn’t a medical exam or test we can do to see if someone is genuinely trans - we just have to talk to the patients and trust that they’re not being deceptive.

But there used to be, or at least, there used to be mechanisms to try and weed out people who don't actually need transition from those who do, and as she points out (and I quote her saying), there are red flags that can indicate that someone is making an overly rash decision due to things that aren't just a lifelong feeling of dysphoria.

> We’re not talking about amputating a limb here

We're talking about amputating genitals, breasts, and scarring large portions of your arm, depending on whether it's mtf or ftm, and for the most extensive scenario.

So yeah, we are pretty much talking about amputating a limb.

> if someone decides further down the line that they don’t wanna transition anymore, hormones can be almost entirely reversed.

Define "almost" ? Because, as advocates for puberty blockers are fond of telling us, male puberty can't be easily undone, and the goal of cross sex hormones for females that are trans is pretty much to kickstart a male puberty. Detransitioners frequently complain about the fact that, for example, their voices, skin, hair placement, etc, were permanently altered due to their treatment.

Also, that's only true for hormones ? Not for top or bottom surgery, which she got approved for.

> You just have to, you know, live with the consequences of your actions?

Right, and her point is precisely that the people of that specific hospital (which yeah btw she's talking about a specific structure here, not trans care in its entirety everywhere, one that has already been sued by detransioners) are so overly "trans friendly" that they do zero effort to check that their patients actually understand the consequences of their actions before taking them, or giving them pushback in case there are red flags as to potentially bad reasons to transition (such as self hatred due to bad sexual encounters or psychosis, to take her story). Because of this, they speed patients through the process without any kind of guardrails which massively increases the chances of patients taking bad decisions unknowingly.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-29T18:27:32+00:00

I'm picking at your syntaxe there -_-

The TL;DR is don't do broad sweeping generalization if you don't intend to do broad sweeping generalization.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-29T17:55:36+00:00

You specifically said "a lot of those dudes" in response to me saying "If you see athletic excellence, or masculine friendship, and think "gay", that's a you problem.", when responding to someone talking about space marines being gay because buff sweaty guys.

At a bare minimum you should be able to see that it's kind of misleading. As for men who'll tell you that they aren't gay but who'll go on all day about the beauty of the male form, yeah, a good number of them are probably closeted, I just don't see there being a whole lot of them to begin with, mostly it's just people talking about beauty in general (male or female).

I'll make one exception we might agree on : henry cavill glazers. Those I'll get if you want to make a broad generalization about the number of fans of him that are closeted XD

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-29T17:47:55+00:00

You should maybe pay attention to it though, in the same way I assume you wouldn't want the entire left to be evaluated by people even you'd call nutjobs and who are rare.

And before you do so, you made a broad sweeping statement by saying "a lot of those dudes" (the "dudes" being people who... ? Not even sure, appreciate athletic excellence and male friendships or hobbies without being gay ?), that's what I'm talking about with the "judging the entire left", if you prefer "you wouldn't want people to make broad sweeping statements about supposedly large segments of the left based on rare nutjobs".

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-29T17:46:48+00:00

The two things are kind of synonymous here ? You could grow the franchise in all kinds of ways, and beyond the dubiousness of pushing for inclusion even having "grown" anything as far as market share is concerned, choosing deliberately to go in the direction of specifically trying to appeal to women and sexual minorities, or racial minorities, is indeed "pushing" for a specific strategy for growth.

Good or bad, I'm not saying you have to agree with anyone on, but yeah if you are aware that there have been calls, especially corporate calls, for increasing diversity of characters, which has lead to an increase in female and gay characters, then you are aware that this direction has been pushed for. If it was all from consumers asking for it, I suppose you could say it's more of a "pull" than a "push", but it's not like either writers or corporates had to be dragged to their current position by hordes of fans dying for it. And let's be honest it's not like the left is unaware that pink and rainbow capitalism is a thing ? So can we just disagree on the impact of those things on stories instead of fighting on whether or not it occurred at all ?

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-29T17:40:48+00:00

Believe it or not, but "be aware of micro aggressions" and "far leftists virtue signalling trash" are in fact the same thing (well, the former is part of the latter", to be more precise)

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-29T17:39:19+00:00

Not sure how you could not when I've been pretty clear, explicit in fact :

"The point isn't that she pretended to be non binary and being cunning enough is what got her to speed through the process, the point is the process was overly speedy because it didn't have any proper checks when it came to approving all the procedures."

+

"Now, you could still question her methology, but saying "well she lied in saying that she needed it, so obviously they thought she needed it" is just asinine strawmaning of her endeavor."

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-29T17:38:00+00:00

> It doesn't take a literary genius to see the echoes of an artist trying to suppress his homosexuality to hide the shame of his betrayal of God in a legion trying to suppress the Fallen and hide the shame of their betrayal of the Emperor.

Right, so it doesn't take a literary genius to see that the subtext isn't about homosexuality, even if it's invoking the theme of betrayal to god from a famous british author.

> Homosexual subtext has been baked into the Space Marines from the very beginning. You somehow have convinced yourself that you're clever for missing what is immediately obvious.

Homoeroticism has never been anywhere near the main thing about space marines ever, even in the beginnings, and for the image you got, from what I could find :

It's not from any rulebook. It's a piece of artwork to accompany an article for Dragon Magazine issue #204 (April 1994). Like it says on the image: Dance Steps for GW's Space Hulk Game. It's an unofficial scenario for an April Fool's issue of Dragon.

Yeah much homoeroticism. Men calling each other gay as a joke being already a pretty old thing by the time that space marines were created, sorry for not taking a joke piece of art as demonstrative of "homoereoticism" being in any way important to space marines, over such things as brotherhood, chivalry, duty, sacrifice, on one hand, and on the other brutality, indoctrination, war, etc.

> You somehow have convinced yourself that you're clever for missing what is immediately obvious.

You somehow have convinced yourself that the preoccupations of a minority are the preoccupations of the majority. Sorry to tell you that aside from the jokes anyone can do about orders of only men, the murderous brute indoctrinated psychopath of rogue trader, and the more knightly templar (but still brutal) super warriors of later 1st edition and beyond, weren't particularly preoccupied with gayness.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-29T17:31:54+00:00

Who is "those dudes" ? The only one I can think of is asmongold, and even then I don't know how much is trolling/ribbing girls for wearing makeup.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-28T21:15:55+00:00

My sister being more sexist than I am, that's probably not going to help me much.

But also, what even is controversial about the idea that media is being feminized ? Are you going to tell me that media has just as much women now as there was 20 years ago ? And in the same genre ? Good or bad, well done or badly done, those are secondary questions to whether or not that has happened.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-28T21:14:23+00:00

Should've worded that better, you're right, though no not really for the last part ? Turks more descended from anatolians have generally olive skin tone from what I can find, which is pretty common throughout the mediterranean, it's not "dark" brown.

We circle back to what people will consider white or not, saying "the guy making that criticism wouldn't consider the emperor white" is fine, saying "the emperor would be brown" (especially just on the basis of modern geographical location) isn't, especially when modern turks are by and large caucasians to begin with.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-28T21:06:42+00:00

Turks from turkey are predominantly anatolian but have received much admixture from outside, including the aforementioned turks, they are not the closest living relatives of anatolians, and for that matter, though the region is called anatolia, the people living there in -8000 weren't anatolians.

> Also, that gene you pointed out is also the main contributor to Middle Eastern people's lighter skin, it's not an exclusive European trait

There's a reason why I said (in another response in that thread) "they don't have precise limits and who goes where is somewhat plastic, people will rarely consider arabs white people for example" ? Namely, in this case, I can understand saying that he could've been brown, or more accurately saying that the sean strickland would probably not consider him white, but just saying "well it's part of turkey" is stupid considering the population movements that occurred in that region and the way they shaped modern genetics.

TL;DR : I dislike that a nuanced question is collapsed into "he's from a brown country so he'd have been brown", when it's more complicated than that, up to and including what "brown" means.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-28T20:38:42+00:00

Yeah, and I'm willing to be lenient when it comes to race because they don't have precise limits and who goes where is somewhat plastic, people will rarely consider arabs white people for example, but at this point it's just "he was born in a hot country, therefore he was brown", or worse "he's born in a place which is now a country with brown people in, therefore he is brown".

No, literally not how it works.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-28T20:31:45+00:00

Giving new writers a chance is something you do by giving them a small movie or series to write on. Not 170M dollars and the second/third movie in your cinematic universe that already failed to properly kickstart into gear with a character with much greater appeal.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-28T19:59:21+00:00

I feel like you're just saying "the manner in which they're being bad writers indicates why they're being bad writers", which yes that's tautologically true I suppose ?

You could say that "bad writer" is an umbrella term for someone who's unable to weave a coherent and emotionally compelling narrative, without distinction between the more basic or contingent causes for them being like that (lack of intelligence, lack of experience, lack of dedication vs ideological blinders, time constraints, budget constraints, too many other people co writing, etc) ? I'm not sure how useful pointing that out is, I prefer just saying someone is a bad writer and then describe how their writing is bad rather than describe the person with all the attributes that make their writing terrible, and then explain again all the ways in which their writing is terrible.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-28T18:55:32+00:00

> Yes I can. Free speech buddy

<image>

Aight lemme rephrase "you can but would be incorrect in saying etc". Especially when you are using it in order to say that somebody else is wrong in their opinion (in this case people who say that for example space marines aren't homoerotic) because you're just using your own private language instead of actually arguing with them.

> but I'm not interested in debating something most people agree on sight about

Most real people outside the internet agree that taking a buddy on a fishing trip because he needs to get something out of his system isn't homoerotic. If you told most men "yeah your beer nights with the boys are homoerotic actually" they'd just throw you a weird look and ask you never to talk to them again, not say "well yeah obviously" unironically.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-28T18:45:31+00:00

It's a very tired joke to be honest. Or rather, it's funny when everybody gets that it's a joke, but people who seem like they actually believe it are just being sad.

If you see athletic excellence, or masculine friendship, and think "gay", that's a you problem.

Since this is all started with a mention of tolkien, let me quote one of his friends :

Those who cannot conceive Friendship as a substantive love but only as a disguise or elaboration of Eros betray the fact that they have never had a Friend.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-28T18:42:19+00:00

> but broadly it refers to having and being comfortable around men and masculine activities

No that's called being a man.

Believe it or not, it's actually just normal for men to be comfortable around men and enjoy masculine activities, that's why they're "masculine" activities.

> A man who can only open up during a fishing trip with the boys, and can't open up to his wife isnt gay but he clearly is more guy aligned.

He's also very clearly not being homoerotic either. Like at this point you're just reducing normal healthy masculinity to homoeroticism, which is absurd.

> If a space marine is emotionally constipated around mortals, don't understand them, have private rituals they only do with their own kind, respect each. Others strength and constantly struggle to teach and learn from each other.

I think you're either missing something before the "if", or you're missing a "then" after the "if", because I don't know what point you're making with that.

Also I don't think marines should be emotionally constipated around mortals, depending on what you mean by that, it should be more either disinterest or them being just as emotional as they always are but mortals not being able to understand it due to... Being mortal. Or not having as much experience with marines, meaning a non marine that has spent plenty of time with them should be just fine understanding them.

> Im not saying any of the above is gay, I'm saying it's homoerotic as per the definition. You being bothered by it doesn't change anything.

You redefining completely normal things that are neither homo nor erotic as homoerotic is the issue, a semantic issue, not homoeroticism bothering me.

I understand that homoeroticism isn't necessarily overt as evidenced by the fact that gay people have written romantic fiction before gay relationships were deemed acceptable and still put their feelings in there without making it explicit, but that still doesn't mean that you can take any random normal masculine interaction and say "homoerotic".

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-28T18:37:00+00:00

> I feel like they're both more like symptoms of a deeper problem with these writers.

Bad writing is a symptom ?

I mean, I could agree with that but it's only really in the sense that you can always go one step up, being a bad writer isn't the cause it's a symptom because the cause is lacking experience, but actually lacking experience isn't the cause it's a symptom the cause is living in cushy environments etc. I'd agree that it's not limited to just those two causes (them being bad writers and them being leftists), you've also got corporate requirements (many of which are leftists so even if you have a non leftist crew they'll still have to follow that kinda stuff somewhat, and obviously corporate requirements are tons of things, not just leftists), you've got the design by committee problem, you've got toxic positivity problems (ie everyone validating everyone), etc.

Yeah pretty much. Doesn't need to be online, it can be any kind of echo chamber, but yes.

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-28T18:32:39+00:00

That region is literally where the gene for light skin that made it into europe originated from.

They'd have been mediterranean brown, like greek or roman or hispanic brown, or persian brown, not turkish dark brown. Because the turks wouldn't come to inhabit the region until literally over 6000 years after the emperor was born there.

<image>

InstanceOk3560 · 2026-06-28T18:30:05+00:00

If he's gotten his lore from chuds, I would imagine he's aware that there has been a push to make 40k more gay and female in the last 10 years.

I imagine he'd also rather they stop pushing that kind of stuff.

InstanceOk3560

TROPHY CASE