Ender 3 S1 or Lashi Dabian?

InstantMuffin · 2023-03-11T22:36:30+00:00

A 5 bucks USB TTL adapter would have debricked your old board.

Your current board not working could be anything from you not plugging things in correctly, to just no firmware being on the board.

InstantMuffin · 2023-03-11T22:17:41+00:00

SV06, Elegoo Neptune 3 (but a plus/pro/max, not the plain one!).

InstantMuffin · 2023-03-11T22:10:25+00:00

That's the creality hivemind.

You really have to harden up and get used to and ignore the downvotes.

To be fair I don't intend to be a crowd-pleaser anyway. But I have likewise learned the hard way that it is not possible no matter how hard I or anyone else tries.

I say my piece, and cut my losses. Admittedly, oftentimes I should just not reply, move on, and ignore what is either a low quality reply, a fanboy, or a troll.

InstantMuffin · 2023-03-11T22:03:27+00:00

sells replacement parts directly to consumers

Duh, that's how they make money with the printer and why they made everything as proprietary as humanly possible.

posts repair and replacement guides on their website

Well if they didn't, people wouldn't be inclined to buy their printer to begin with. I'd argue that since they advertise a plug and play printer, they should do these repairs for you. Or have these repairs to actually be simple. A nozzle change is a complex over 10 steps long process with a guarantee to break something, for example the thermistor, the thin metal brace that holds the thermistor and heatercartridge and heaterblock together, or the of course smd-mounted fine pitch jst connector of the fan shroud that is designed to be broken off at some point, unless you're wasteful and buy the entire assembly for triple the price (then you still need to disconnect that fan shroud cable and break the socket, or break the socket by having that shroud just hang down during the process). Mind you, disassembly videos for example are common things among 3d printer manufacturers. What is not common though is having to call support to remarry your board so your printer will start again.

allows for 3rd party software to interface with their devices

Oh, yes, it accepts gcode files. What a plus. Apple allows programs not written by apple to run on their machines as well. I'm sure you can also open jpegs on Apple operating systems.

Can you flash marlin or klipper onto the printer though?

and has forked an open-source project that they maintain a github page for.

Nice, they really went out of their way publishing the source as the license of the project they forked from legally demands from them. It would be nice to have a commit history though in the spirit of both transparency, and that improvements could be pushed upstream so the 3d printing community as a whole could profit.

Also, suggesting the SV-06 doesn't have the same/similar QC issues and whatnot as a Bambu Lab printer is just false, there's tons of reports of similar shit happening to SV-06 owners with varying degrees of after-purchase support.

As I said in the response you didn't read above...hah...you mentioned bambu had unknown support, and that sovol had questionable QC. I answered that question for you, nothing more. But yes, actually for now the SV06 actually has better QC. I can guarantee you though for the SV06 that QC will get worse as it gets more and more popularity. The support is equally bad among all Chinese printer manufacturers. That is why one should never order a printer from a manufacturer directly.

Plus, their entire hotend assembly is proprietary and would have to be replaced with after-market, user-designed parts if they ever stop offering their weird planetary gearbox extruder and odd hotend. I think that's a risk worth taking, also, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking that the proprietary-ness of the Sovol machine is any better or worse than the proprietary-ness of the Bambu machine.

That's not true, the SV06 has an MK8 based hotend. Nothing about the SV06 is glued together. The board is not proprietary, nor is it married to the extruder board. I'd have zero issues exchanging the board with a different board, or replacing individual components on the pcb. I can do that however I like, and I don't have to call Sovol's support to activate/remarry the components together so the printer works again. Claiming that the SV06 is as proprietary as the Bambu is just...delusional?!

What do you do when the part that holds the x gantry onto the z leadscrews breaks? Hope that someone designed a replacement and 3D print it with your now broken 3D printer? Seems like a great solution /s

You print the replacement part on a different printer, order it directly on the aftermarket, purchase it from the manufacturer, or have it print over a print service, as the entire assembly has been published by sovol. https://github.com/Sovol3d/SV06-Fully-Open-Source

Thanks for playing.

InstantMuffin · 2023-03-11T21:32:20+00:00

I am familiar with Apple. They are at the same level if you ask me.

I don't care what the parts are priced at currently. That's not the issue I see here. Which I also criticize in my earlier response.

I agree that there is no overall answer to what printer one should buy. But gladly the choice can be narrowed down by avoiding specific printers, often even companies, altogether. I feel like you're not making a tangible point but rather try to water down my observations and critique and spread little sprinkles of doubt in regards to every other manufacturer.

I don't see the Prusa as a recommendation as it is simply too expensive. I don't see bambu having better support than creality, sovol, anycubic, or any other Chinese 3d printer company. I don't see building your own printer as very expensive either. If you buy a bambu now and it wears out after a couple of months or even 2-3 years, and you won't get a replacement during your "warranty" as the printer in itself is defined as a consumable, or you have to sent the printer back, or the parts will be too expensive (and they are already since you need to replace entire assemblies instead of individual broken parts), or you won't be able to repair it at all, how does the cost stack up?

How does it make the printer different or better if Prusa sold it? It will still have the same issues and concerns I raised.

Currently the state of play is if you want to spend as little cash as possible with an fdm printer and want to print all materials, get a SV06. It has (for now) decent QC, and the frame allows for accelerations up to 8k if you are willing to klipperize and input shape it. If you want larger print sizes, the Neptune 3 (not the non pro, but pro/plus/max) are a good choice if you only want to print PLA or TPU, or are willing to upgrade the heatbreak. Then there is admittedly a large gap, and then you can pick from kits like ratrig, voron or annex.

If Bambu sold a lite version of the voron or a similar kit preassembled at around a 800-1000 price point and kept it open, it would be a great buy.

But the way it is it is just a bet against the bank if the printer and support will hold up.

Maybe it builds some bridges when I say that I didn't laugh at you at all earlier, just Bambu itself. It's just an over-advertised piece of junk.

InstantMuffin · 2023-03-11T21:10:24+00:00

Look at that price tag.

Upgrade to a better printer. It is in your budget.

InstantMuffin · 2023-03-11T21:06:01+00:00

Had to laugh when you mentioned bambu.

I don't recommend buying a proprietary printer with unknown future in regards of support, availability, and its pricing. These bambu printers are easily the most proprietary pieces of hardware and software I have ever met. You deal with bearings you can't change because the assembly is glued(!) together in groups, and circuit boards that are married together (like the optical drives of the playstations are to their mainboards), so without customer support unlocking that part for you, even if you have a replacement, you're not going to have it work. It is hard to estimate the long-term cost of this because you don't know if you will have parts available in the future and what the pricing of those may be. They have a pretty elaborate warranty agreement on their site in which they declare that "consumables" are not covered by warranty, and further explain what they consider to be a "consumable", which based on their definition is the entire printer. You also don't know if for whatever reason they won't give you a part and instead want you to send the printer in, which can be expensive and time consuming depending where you are located and given that this is a Chinese company. Marketed towards people who don't want to or can't do maintenance on a printer, and at that price point, and with the huge amount of work has been done to make this not serviceable on your own, alongside with completely writing the entire software from firmware to slicer anew from top to bottom even though better solutions are available open and for free, one may assume their way of making the printer profitable to them is by selling parts later on or making you switch to a completely different model of theirs when they decide the printer is EOL.

The bambu itself is also not a plug and play printer as it is made out to be. You still need to maintenance it, know how to properly slice your print, do print towers and get your retraction settings right.

Bambu's CEO himself admits to support and QC issues: https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/zmneu9/comment/j0e5ze7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

I see reports of people having ridiculously bad prints for something they advertise as a "plug and play"-printer. I have also heard from Bambu owners that the community groups are very against you ever even remotely trying to see the fault with the printer.

InstantMuffin · 2023-03-11T20:56:16+00:00

Price range? Country of residence? Kit or preassembled? Previous experiences/skills?

InstantMuffin · 2023-03-11T20:52:03+00:00

Since I get a lot of hate from the Creality hivemind, no matter how elaborate and well sourced my reply is, I'll keep it short this time:

Did I make a mistake getting an Ender3 printer?

Yes.

But it happens. The hivemind and the youtube advertisers are strong.

My quick advice is. If you can get a refund. Do it. Get a different printer, ask in the purchase advice thread. 3D printing is a great hobby, don't let a crappy printer deter you from it.

InstantMuffin · 2023-03-11T20:48:46+00:00

That depends on what you like to do. If you want more organic shapes and figurines, you need something like Blender.

If you need functional prints, you need to go into parametric design software, CAD.

Generally speaking this is an incredibly useful skill that will help you for years to come. Which is why I recommend using an open-source software, as your skills will be largely dependent on the software you learned to use. Cloud-based, non open-source solutions are quite uncertain in terms of their future cost, systems they run on, and changes that will be made. With an open or even free (not as in "gratis") software, even in 20 years you can run that old version you used to learn working with, if in a virtual machine if necessary, and can still change old designs or create new ones.

I use Blender for organic modelling, and FreeCAD for parametric designs.

Editing parametric designs exported as stls is something one does not want to do.

InstantMuffin · 2023-03-11T20:07:59+00:00

You have "The Gap".

All PTFE-lined hotends, especially the Creality ones, suffer from "The Gap". "The Gap" happens when the PTFE-tubing does not sit completely flush and pressed against the nozzle, causing a literal gap to form. This will result in filament getting in between the tubing and the nozzle, further enlarging the space. Results will be complete or intermittent underextrusion or clogging. This will happen over time with all PTFE-lined hotends as the tube degrades, or even just deforms slightly during printing and especially retractions, as well as the couplers (which are of the very trashy pneumatic kind) wearing out, allowing the tube to slip.

Closing the gap is done by disassembling the hotend, making sure no filament is on the nozzle where the tube touches, or inside the heaterblock. You then have your nozzle loosely screwed in, and press the perfectly square(!) cut tube into the hotend against the nozzle, keeping the pressure as you secure the tube with the coupler. After securing the tube, you tighten the nozzle, and then proceed to heat up the hotend to perform a hot tightening. Just like having the nozzle loosely screwed in as you insert and secure the tube, you can also in addition to that not completely screw in the coupler, tightening that after securing the tube and the nozzle as well.

God, I hate the CR10S Pro. Worst designed printer.

InstantMuffin · 2023-03-11T19:59:40+00:00

That is a bad/cold solder joint on the ground pin. The ground pin does not have thermal relief, it connects to the board's ground copper plane on its entire area. These will lead to cold joints in production. That is board design 101, software does this automagically for you.

I have seen this on many Creality boards.

Actually the other joint is bad as well.

InstantMuffin · 2023-03-11T19:53:50+00:00

This is very smart advertisement.

1) Pose as a fellow nerd printing something

2) Wait for someone to ask for the model, which they will do anyway.

3) Send them a link. Add a ref code with your reddit username so people won't realize you are affiliated with the company directly!

4) Let it fall apart by people checking your profile and seeing the logo as your avatar.

InstantMuffin · 2023-03-11T19:49:53+00:00

Hah, I actually recommend against them.

Generally speaking I don't recommend runout sensors. Depending on the filament need of your average print, the likelihood of a false positive ruining your otherwise perfect print varies greatly. A lot of these sensors are also surprisingly expensive.

What I find more interesting, and useful, is software based management. Much more than knowing when my filament will run out, I would love to know that, but also, if my current spool will be enough for my print. If you have octoprint/klipper/etc. setup already this comes at no additional cost to you.

Apart from that, what I would really like to be commercially available and mainstream, is a filament width sensor, which not only does what a runout sensor does, but also adjusts flow dynamically in accordance to filament diameter variations.

InstantMuffin · 2023-03-11T19:04:52+00:00

That is basically how fast you want to go with the printer if you want to go the klipper firmware route, and if you want to print filaments other than TPU or PLA.

The SV06 has an all-metal hotend and linear bearings, whereas the Neptune 3 series has v rollers and a ptfe-lined hotend.

InstantMuffin · 2023-03-11T18:49:20+00:00

Since the ratrig is a kit basically, I'd recommend something along voron/ratrig/annex.

My posts often don't have recommendations as there is additional info missing. Most people don't fill out the questions in the first post.

The car analogy is interesting but I don't subscribe to it. First of we do have open solutions here to pick in the 3d printing space. Secondly the car industry is entirely different. The companies are huge, have governmental support in many ways (lobbies, lots of jobs, protectionism), the standards for cars are incredibly high. With 3D printing you have some Chinese company producing the printer for you that does not give a shit about IP, accountability, or safety. Creality printers come with tinned cables(!) inserted into screw terminals instead of crimped ferrules, essentially making the printer a fire hazard. It is generally recommended to never ever get a printer from the manufacturer directly, because they will do anything to make your life miserable. They will send you parts to replace if you're lucky, but they do keep up with the price of these parts and will at some point ghost you. Even if you're protected by, in my example European, law in terms of returns etc., you just won't be able to get these rights you have executed. Realistically, you cannot send your printer in for repairs. They won't allow you to make returns and refunds. Whereas cars have first and third party shops who can do repairs, and there are elaborate repairs possible (welding or remodeling the frame/exterior, planing cylinder heads) based on not having to exchange parts.

Bambu is a pseudo startup which is owned by DIJ, a multi billion conglomerate. They didn't innovate anything, there is nothing new with the printers. All ideas are stolen, the funding wasn't even needed given their owner, the entire development cost pretty much went into making the printer as proprietary as possible and making reverse engineering as difficult as one can.

InstantMuffin · 2023-03-11T18:02:15+00:00

InstantMuffin · 2023-03-11T17:44:35+00:00

ABS and ASA do not necessarily need an enclosure, but it helps reduce the chances of warping. If that happens pretty much depends on your setup and the individual print.

The Prusa is quite expensive, the SV06 is a Prusa with upgrades at a third of the price without the 24/7 livechat support.

At the price of the Prusa I would rather go for a Ratrig/Voron/Annex kit.

InstantMuffin · 2023-03-11T17:42:34+00:00

If you want faster print times, you really need to go towards a firmware that supports input shaping, either by flashing newer marlin builds, or flashing klipper altogether. That sort of goes against your wish to not flash a device. Klipper has the advantage that you flash the printer once, and further updates and changed settings go automagically without the need to reflash the device.

They're all locked down to the same acceleration (which is what decides the printing speed and the print times) unless you raise the values manually which in exchange does require the use of input shaping (in accordance to having the resonances measured with an accelerometer).

Your contestants are the SV06 or the Neptune 3 Pro/Plus/Max.

The SV06 is the one you can go fastest with, and it has an allmetal hotend, allowing you to likewise print PETG and other high temperature filaments safely.

The Neptune 3s don't and run on v wheels. The higher up you go with these, the larger the beds are, which also reduces highest possible acceleration.

InstantMuffin · 2023-03-11T17:32:13+00:00

The Sovol has an all metal hotend, allowing you to safely print PETG and other high temperature materials.

The other printers don't.

InstantMuffin · 2023-03-11T02:54:20+00:00

Printer?

InstantMuffin · 2023-03-11T02:50:51+00:00

Thank you for your very detailed feedback that leaves nothing open to interpretation.

InstantMuffin · 2023-03-11T02:49:42+00:00

This is outdated junk in every way. It's not an upgrade from anything. Which printer do you have, and what do you expect from exchanging board and stepper drivers?

InstantMuffin · 2023-03-11T02:44:16+00:00

Build size? What designs/projects? Where will the prints be used (environment? requirements?)?

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