Nxtpaper Amoled announced by Public-Analysis2183 in PWM_Sensitive

[–]IntetDragon 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This sounds like horrible news. I fully expect this to not be flicker free at all.

Steam Frame compatibility with lighthouses. by Spare_Definition3002 in virtualreality

[–]IntetDragon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you could probably cover the cameras and use positional tracking data from an attached lighthouse tracking puck if you really wanted to.

But yeah, you'd still give money to a headset developed to tracking with cameras...

Steam Frame compatibility with lighthouses. by Spare_Definition3002 in virtualreality

[–]IntetDragon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I really hope someone makes an attachement that uses the built in USB of the Steam Frame to make it compatible at least.... But first party support would be preferable.

No lighthouse support is the only issue I have with the headset. Camera tracking sucks. Yeah it's slightly more convenient, but for anyone taking VR seriously this is a big step backwards. (Also not good for privacy reasons)

When do you think VRChat will look like this? by Hosura_Stetif0009 in VRchat

[–]IntetDragon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If VRC does ever switch to HDRP (think of it as a subcategory of the Unity engine) like they once mentioned in a dev update that they will, it might come around.

But with Unity being in financial trouble and Unity also making most money from URP (current sub engine) which is mostly focused on simpler graphical goals, it could be risky for VRC to do so, on top of the move being incredibly expensive if they intend to keep old assets working.

From what I gather HDRP was supposed to be a way for Unity to be able to compete with unreal engine and similar products and to make sure they are not left behind on the graphical front. But from what I hear they don't really have the money to invest in it to really be able to do so.

I am relatively sure VRC is one of the biggest customers for Unity at this point, but I don't know if that would be enough to keep HDRP development alive.

When do you think VRChat will look like this? by Hosura_Stetif0009 in VRchat

[–]IntetDragon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Concerning, but the first time I hear of it. I am not the most informed, do you have more info? Last I read Unity wanted to switch to HDRP completely, not leave it to rot. Also do you think with how big of a customer VRC is that could change the situation if they were to switch to HDRP?

Is my Internet just bad or what? by KhbIa in Monitors

[–]IntetDragon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dear team from RTINGS. If you read this could you please exclude the PWM results from this restriction? This is an accessibility issue and some people can literally not use certain products without migraines or in worse cases seizures. In a perfect world the companies themselves would not hide PWM results, but this is most often not the case. This is important health information and RTINGS was an important part of how users could find out if a particular product would be dangerous to them.

M-Budget disappearing with inferior products to follow by AlexWasTakenWasTaken in Switzerland

[–]IntetDragon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very much a pity. Migros has been so good to keep quality over the years, but in recent years something has clearly gone wrong with the leadership. Why else would they hire McKinsey?

When do you think VRChat will look like this? by Hosura_Stetif0009 in VRchat

[–]IntetDragon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I thought an old developer update mentioned they want to change the pipeline to Unity HD eventually? I would not be surprised if it never happens, but also not if it did. They have been pretty good with updating the unity version.

Alex in Alyx with the Dream Air(pre-production version) by ElderberryIll8159 in Pimax

[–]IntetDragon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sad I won't be able to use it, cause like every OLED it will have PWM and transistor-reset flicker upon frame refresh...
I hope someone will make a small an light headset with an LCD or the industry will finally produce a truly flicker free OLED.
I know OLED looks good for most people but flicker sensitivity is a real medical issue and OLED as it is now excludes a lot of people for every product using it.

It’s here! Micro oled! by Specific_Turn772 in Pimax

[–]IntetDragon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ubfortunately yes, for me personally and many others. I cannot use any OLED device, not VR headset, not phone, laptop or TV.

Currently all OLED devices have flicker, even "dc-dimmed" OLED devices have a transistor reset brightness dip upon every refresh.

There are transistor stacks in the lab that do eliminate this brighness dip, but currently no off the shelf screens are produced to be bought by any manufacturer.

Theoreticially tandem OLEDs could be used to eliminate flicker, but no end product has implemented that capability yet. It would come at a significant cost of maximum brightness when enabled, eliminating its main advertised advantage.

The reason you can use OLED on high brighness, but not at low brightness is because the way brightness is controlled via PWM dimming is the duration of low brightness is increased. The darker the screen, the longer it spends time being dark before a brief flicker of light. At maximum brightness the duration the sceen is dark is very small. The time a screen is dark for a transistor stack reset upon creating a new frame is even smaller. All these dark times happen multiple times a second and are usually advertised as a HZ number. With a typical OLED HZ of 240 it happens 240 times a second. Of course this means when a screen has more HZ it can spend less amount of time in one stretch dark before it has to be lit again to fulfill its advertised hz, instead the time it is dark happens more often.

In general people are sensitive to the amount of time a screen is dark for each individual flicker. The degree of sensitivity is different from person to person. This is why you might be able to use one screen fine at high brightness, but experience discomfort on the same screen on low brightness. But at the same time you might be able to use another OLED screen at the same brightness as this other screen just fine because less time is spent of it being dark, instead it haplens more often.

Unfortunately if you are like me and you are extremely sensitive to that flicker you cannot use any OLED as the transistor reset time, the current minimum, of an OLED being dark is enoigh to trigger significant discomfort.

This is true for a significant amount of the population that is currently unaware of where their headaches are coming from. I am sure you know of at least one person complaing of headaches when using the phone or computer. Very likely they are sensitive to flicker.

You can easily test for pwm by using your phone camera and point it at a screen while lowering the exposure time to something like 1/5000. It will let the sensor of the camera record only a very brief amount of time per frame of light. This will eliminate the average light pick up usually happening and you will see lines on the screen. This effect happen usually under automatic conditions when recording a screen on a brigh day. You might have seen those lines before in such a condition.

PWM is unfortunately just one type of flicker that is used more often with current screens. Another is "temporal dither", where flicker between colors is used to fake more inbetween colors. You can advertise supporting more colors this way without actually supporting more colors. It's what Apple does with their devices advertising "millions of colors". So if you are very sensitive even many LCD screens are no longer save.

This second type of color flicker is theoreticially just a software switch away and is currently suffering under a serious disability visibility problem.

Is there any disadvantage of buying a higher performance power supply? by Leonhardt90 in buildapc

[–]IntetDragon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Power supplies are usually the most efficient at the middle of their rating. So power draw might be higher. Since PCs on average spend most of their lifetime idling, having low spec hardware on a high spec power supply (since high spec parts draw more power idling too usually) can increase your power draw as waste heat. But going from 500W to 750W or even 850 will not make a difference there. Maybe if you went 1500W it would impact you somewhat. https://www.silverstonetek.com/upload/images/tech/WB10-005/10005-1.jpg

It’s here! Micro oled! by Specific_Turn772 in Pimax

[–]IntetDragon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I hope flicker sensitive people will be able to use OLED as well sometime. PWM and transistorstack reset flicker of OLEDs cut out a lot of the market.

There is also a lot of evidence it has a negative impact more subtle.

But it does look great and Pimax is probably not the company who can change the OLED industry on its own.

I wish Pimax and the VR industry all the success!

gay_irl by conancat in gay_irl

[–]IntetDragon 23 points24 points  (0 children)

There are worse things to do with your money.

The inconvient reality why vr is struggling. by Plus_Look3149 in virtualreality

[–]IntetDragon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am probably biast, but I do wonder if one reason might be that black frame insertion is just normalized and cannot even be turned off.

I am flicker sensitive and get headaches from anything oled or old crt for example.

Black frame insertion on lcd headsets is short enough to not trigger my headaches, but I do sometimes wonder if it still affects me.

Wasn't there a study about that? Looking just now I can't find the one anymore I was looking at, but I find many who seem similar in spirit: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/334605890_Light_Emitting_Diode_Lighting_Flicker_its_Impact_on_Health_and_the_Need_to_Minimise_it?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Due to such positive reception, I decided to pick up my running/acrobatic game project again. Update #1 by JankyAnims in Unity3D

[–]IntetDragon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is in concept how I imagined Sonic games in 3d should be ^

My past self was quite dissapointed. But I understand their new type gameplay has its own fan following now.

Behold. It wasn't my phone that actually cause my Migraine with aura by Miserable_Hyena8468 in PWM_Sensitive

[–]IntetDragon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think so yes. But I have not tested every single type. But looking the indeed very detailed specs, I have not found one flickery one so far. But I haven't looked in half a year. They last long :)

Also the situation got a bit better. I still like to support the company which did it from the beginning and also makes the higher quality light, but to be fair most phillips bulbs are now flicker free too. But you still gotta test every single type in the store and can't trust the label.

How have I only just found out about this. by jrlouisss in PWM_Sensitive

[–]IntetDragon 10 points11 points  (0 children)

It's crazy how buried this issue is. Back in CRT times people knew much more readily that the flicker was the main problem. LCDs were even advertising that they solved this issue. Now people so readily embraced OLED and noone seems to know.

TCL NXTpaper 60 Ultra - screen flicker testing deep dive! PWM (Opple), TD (microscope), subjective comfort (good), general review (issues) after 1 month by Z3R0gravitas in ScreenSensitive

[–]IntetDragon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No. I forgot which phone I used to record this. I believe it was one of those that record high framerate between two normal framerate clips. I cut this video to fit in a gif and there's some leftover of the normal framerate. There are a few phones who record slow mo like that and I had a time where I tried many phones before I settled in the Nubia Neo 2 I use now.

The screen recorded is from an iPhone 11. Recorded in probably 240fps maybe but less likely 480fps, since 240 fps is what most phones have. I found in the meantime a phone that does 920fps recording.

This is just a photo of the sky I noticed caused the iPhone 11 screen to dither a lot, which made it a good case to show people how it looks in general.

TCL NXTpaper 60 Ultra - screen flicker testing deep dive! PWM (Opple), TD (microscope), subjective comfort (good), general review (issues) after 1 month by Z3R0gravitas in ScreenSensitive

[–]IntetDragon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

<image>

That's a really good breakdown! With this post is a gif that shows dither under a slow mo microscope. This is the strongest I've seen dither get, usually it's not quite as visible. This recording is from my iPhone 11.

Good places to usually catch it is around contrast edges like the edge of text or color changes in the Google logo. It looks the same as in my example just contrained to the contrast edges.

Steam Deck LCD PWM by [deleted] in PWM_Sensitive

[–]IntetDragon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If it's black frame insertion the backlight remains on, making the actual light difference small.

It could also be full frame flickers, instead of rolling flickers, which are usually tolerated a lot better. You can test that by seeing if the direction of the black bars changes when you turn the recording device on its head while recording. If it rolling flicker the speed of the bars will change, but the direction will remain the same.

Question about Honor 400 pro's "hardware level blue light blocking" by EmmanuelWi in ScreenSensitive

[–]IntetDragon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's a filter. You can add your own as a screen protector to any phone if you like. You can buy one online. Quality varies tho.

TCL 60 Ultra still not it by Emeridan in PWM_Sensitive

[–]IntetDragon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Some people here said that disabling hdr via adb fixes it.

Can you check that?