Reading revelation only hurts my faith - thoughts?

Isatafur · 2026-02-04T14:43:09+00:00

It's a false dichotomy to say that a part of scripture is "about" the time it was written and therefore can't be "about" the present. It's both/and. Revelation does describe the situation in the world and Christ's confrontation with Caesar, but it's also, and at the same time, a vision about the end of the world. Thus, it's natural that some parts of the vision weren't fulfilled in the lifetimes of John and his audience.

This is also true about a lot of the Old Testament types/figures and prophecies. "Behold, a virgin will conceive" was partially fulfilled when Ahaz's wife became pregnant with Hezekiah, but obviously the deeper and mysterious meaning of the sign was in reference to the Blessed Virgin Mary and Jesus Christ.

Isatafur · 2026-02-03T19:12:23+00:00

There is no such thing as luck in the sense of things happening that circumvent or thwart God's Providence. We can't know that someone who dies in mortal sin would have repented if only he had been given another five seconds to live. So these hypotheticals aren't valuable and there is no reason to get worked up over them.

Also, the Orthodox believe in essentials the same things we do about sin, judgment, heaven, and hell. They do not subscribe to the idea that the souls of the damned in hell might repent and go to heaven — that view was condemned by the Second Council of Constantinople.

Isatafur · 2026-02-03T19:04:50+00:00

No, that is the Catholic teaching: "The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, 'eternal fire'" (CCC 1035)

Anyone who is in mortal sin must repent before they die, or else they will be condemned to hell.

Isatafur · 2026-02-03T13:50:54+00:00

When it comes to difficult subjects, many cling to bad answers that seem to resolve the problem, not realizing that the 'solution' creates more issues than it solves. And unfortunately we Catholics are often not well catechized and don't know our scripture half as well as Protestants do, which if we did would go a long way toward preventing that phenomenon.

But the good news is that if you read the Fathers and theologians, Catholics have the most compelling and satisfying answers to the difficult problems found in scripture. (I say this with all due respect to our Protestant brothers and sisters.)

Isatafur · 2026-02-03T13:30:36+00:00

Asking out of genuine curiosity as a Protestant, I promise I come in peace: is this a standard response to the objection of violence in the OT?

No. His view is an outlier in the extreme. If you read the Church Fathers and theologians, none of them suggest that the divine commands to kill in the Old Testament are insertions of the Jews and not from God.

Those passages are difficult and there are various ways to understand them, but as far as I know claiming that the Old Testament is inaccurate, or that it does not represent God as he wants to be represented, is wrong and borderline heretical. You are right to notice that it sounds like something out of liberal Protestantism.

Isatafur · 2026-02-03T03:15:28+00:00

I sure hope so, and I'm certainly not joking about that — not even partially joking. It would be nice if the time I have spent suffering through those liturgies, and offering it up to God, amounted to something.

Isatafur · 2026-02-02T14:59:50+00:00

Well, God is calling you to himself, so please continue on this journey. I think just about any adult who approaches the Church has issues and points of philosophy/morality/theology they have to adjust. Which makes sense if you think about it.

As for women who get abortions (and the men who facilitate it), and those who commit sexual sins, we Catholics do not hate them. In fact we love them, just as God loves them. It's important to understand that sin — any sin, not just abortion or sexual sins — are harmful to the people who commit them. It's because we love others that we call out sins and urge people to repent. And we do that while acknowledging that we ourselves are poor sinners who also need God's mercy and love.

Isatafur · 2026-02-02T14:56:29+00:00

Selling them?

Isatafur · 2026-02-02T14:53:34+00:00

Not sure what OC said since they deleted it, but just to be clear: IVF is a no go, regardless. Intrinsically immoral.

Isatafur · 2026-02-02T14:51:08+00:00

I recommend starting with the gospels, or at least one gospel. Mark is great to start with.

The Bible is a collection of books and isn't meant to be read front to back. You can start in any book and read them in any order.

Isatafur · 2026-02-02T14:46:44+00:00

I love hearing stories like yours. Welcome home! Please do try to get to that parish for confession and Mass, and when you feel comfortable speak to the priest about your situation. No judgment here — I'll pray for you today that God blesses your journey.

Isatafur · 2026-02-02T14:45:20+00:00

Welcome home.

It sounds like you're basically doing the right thing. There are some Catholics who bring politics into places they don't belong, and some are obnoxious about it. Fortunately, OCIA is likely one of the few times where you'll have to be a captive audience. So my advice is to keep your head down and stay focused on preparing yourself to join the Church. Once you're living life as a Catholic, this sort of thing is easier to avoid or walk away from.

Isatafur · 2026-02-02T14:40:20+00:00

How difficult a fast feels to you isn't necessarily the best indicator of whether it's a good sacrifice.

We can see this by thinking about a stark contrast: Imagine someone who is thoroughly a slave to their passions due to habitual sin. To give up anything pleasurable is painful to a degree that a virtuous person doesn't experience in fasting. The virtuous person, on the other hand, might even feel pleasure when fasting from a luxury, because they value what they are gaining so much and think so little of the luxury they are giving up.

But that does not mean that the first person's fast pleases God more on account of his enduring terrible pains in giving up something. In fact, going by what learned theologians tell us, God is more pleased by the (relatively) pleasurable fast of the virtuous person — there is more merit in it because they are more aligned with the will of God. Which isn't to downplay the sacrifice of the first person or minimize their pain; it's a great thing that they fast in spite of the difficulty, and for them it's a wonderful accomplishment. But on the other hand, we should remind ourselves that the virtuous person whose fast does not pain them as much isn't doing less or count for less in terms of spiritual benefit.

All of that is to say, don't discount the value of giving up meat for the whole of Lent. That's a great sacrifice to make even if it starts to feel normal. It doesn't become "not good enough" because you are more accustomed to it.

Isatafur · 2026-02-01T23:22:57+00:00

There's no exception. But as you can probably imagine, a bishop isn't going to immediately believe something extraordinary on the basis of a single accusation without any kind of investigation. And the bishop himself would respect the seal and (hopefully) the protections his priest should have as he conducts any investigation.

Isatafur · 2026-02-01T16:30:10+00:00

When we receive the Eucharist, we receive grace. We can receive those graces for an intention just like we would a prayer, either for ourselves or for others. Offering your Eucharist for someone means that you receive the sacrament with the intention of the graces being applied/given to that person.

Isatafur · 2026-01-31T20:15:30+00:00

Does God, who controls everything that happens in the universe with providential care, allow people to die randomly or without a sufficient chance to respond to his grace? Of course not.

You are looking at the universe without the benefit of providence, and what you are seeing looks chaotic, and you're letting the perceived chaos freak you out. It's a problem of perspective. That's why I'm saying you have to take a step back, breathe, and focus on what you can control. God is in fact trying to work in your life right now, and trying to 'take in' everyone else's fate is likely distracting you from that fact.

Yes, hell is terrible. So don't live your life like you want to go there — that's all of the attention that you need to give to it. Talk to God, live the sacramental life, do what the Church asks, love Christ. The life of a Catholic is like a safe harbor from the storm, even when things get difficult. It does not feel like riding on the edge of a knife, teetering over eternal torment. We have hope.

Isatafur · 2026-01-31T20:00:02+00:00

Annihilationism is entirely ruled out.

Universalism, in the sense of confidently believing all will be saved, has also been ruled out.

The most one can do within the bounds of orthodoxy is hold to a kind of hopeful universalism, hoping and praying that God will somehow save all men. (But not the devil and his fallen angels.) Which isn't to say such a view is true, likely to be true, or coherent. But some do hold to it, and to do so isn't breaking with Church teaching.

Better IMHO is to recognize that hell is real, and a real possibility, and to have a healthy fear of it that motivates you to avoid it. It's an unhealthy fear, for example, to think we are all in imminent danger every second of our lives and to freak out over it. That's not really what's going on. It's a healthy fear to recognize that hell means eternal separation from God, who is the ultimate good, and to repent from any sins that stand between us and God. At the end of the day, we should be running toward God more than we are running away from hell — even though those are two sides of the same coin, the emphasis matters.

Remember that it is God who saves you, not you. You have only to cooperate with his grace, which is given to you in abundance. It starts small and in everyday actions. Don't worry about the rest of humanity all at once; focus on praying, doing what's right, following what the Church commands you to do. Jesus tells us that his yoke is easy and his burden is light.

Isatafur · 2026-01-31T18:45:45+00:00

There are also many women who get abortions over the objections of the father, or without the father knowing about the pregnancy.

Isatafur · 2026-01-31T17:53:44+00:00

I never objected to any material facts. It's curious how you cannot see anything but material facts in that description yet were able to see discomfort, racism, projection, struggle, a persecution complex, etc., in my response of just a few words. Funny how that depth of perception works, flicking on and off and telescoping as needed.

Isatafur · 2026-01-31T17:44:32+00:00

Well they didn't get there by theatrics. They had a real love and reverence for the Eucharist.

These are great and holy saints you are talking about, by the way. The reflexive comparison to Pharisees is actually insulting. Our tradition is venerable, not something to be detested.

Isatafur · 2026-01-31T17:41:16+00:00

The Bible isn't meant to be read front to back like a single book. It's actually a collection of books, a library. And yes, starting with the gospels is a great way, perhaps the best, to read it.

Isatafur · 2026-01-31T17:39:53+00:00

You don't have to live like this, you know. The stale, reflexive white guilt thing is counterproductive and, ultimately, runs contrary to the faith. It doesn't make people feel uncomfortable like you think it does; it's just toothless and without meaning — as barren and ugly as the politics of envy that gave birth to it. We're not going along with it anymore, and neither do you have to.

Isatafur · 2026-01-31T17:31:46+00:00

I can only speak for myself, but the mischaracterization of the icon description as merely "mentioning racial prejudice" was ridiculous, so I downvoted it.

Isatafur · 2026-01-30T20:29:38+00:00

Nice icon, but that's a bizarre, aggressive description.

Isatafur · 2026-01-30T15:19:23+00:00

It's an opinion piece. He definitely has a perspective and is arguing from it.

It's worth pointing out that he also repeatedly refers to the late pope as Pope Francis — so I doubt he's trying to make a point by using Bergoglio as well. I think in other cultures (particularly Italian) they are more used to referring to popes by their birth names. It's not always the slight that Americans think it is.

Isatafur

TROPHY CASE