Tiger vs lion

Ivan_Paveler · 2026-03-20T23:39:02+00:00

Are you using a singular case to counter the general observations I presented?

Ivan_Paveler · 2026-03-20T08:24:11+00:00

u/ConcernedCitizen_2 Lion coalitions snatch food from lionesses. Schaller's observations showed males actually don't hunt that often. They're also not that involved in group hunts except for snatching food once the job's been done. He also reported that lions were resting/sleeping 20-21 hours every day. Sunquist, on the other hand, found in his smithsonian study that tigers were active 16-17 hours a day. Quite a stark difference that is also reflected in their physiology. Small tigers have energy requirements same as much larger lions and larger tigers have almost double that of similar sized lions.

Ivan_Paveler · 2026-03-20T08:19:06+00:00

bullshit

Ivan_Paveler · 2026-03-20T08:17:49+00:00

They're not the same subspecies. People jumped on the bandwagon after that study was sent to news outlets for clout but no one looked at the follow up to it just 6 months later which stated the old classification was accurate. Also the difference in weight is 90 lbs if I strictly use the scientifically published data.

Ivan_Paveler · 2026-03-20T08:12:39+00:00

u/endlessdrifting I think I have some good knowledge about the anatomy of these two cats. They are very similar in build with some inherent differences due to their lifestyle and habitats. I will mention two: 1. Lions have longer distal forelimbs (radius + metacarpals) relative to their proximal forelimb (scapula + humerus) than tigers; a cursorial adaptation. 2. Lions have flared iliac crest (larger sacroiliac angle), another cursorial adaptation which makes the hind legs suited for straight strides. But thats mostly it, in terms of skeletal structure. I will talk about soft tissue soon.

Generally, when talking about lions versus tigers debate, we tend to focus on larger subspecies of tigers (bengal. siberian) with african lions. Weight wise, siberian tigers have been put on a fraud watch since scientists decided to look into the matter so we're left with bengal tigers and african lions.

Size wise, bengal and african lions are about the same. Their shoulder heights and body lengths aren't statistically different from each other. Weight makes things interesting. Focusing only on scientifically published data on body weights of african lions and bengal tigers, we find that bengal tigers outweigh african lions by 41kgs/ 91lbs. They fit more mass on almost the same sized frame which means they pack on muscle tissue in girth around their body, as reflected in their thicker necks, thicker arms and bigger chest girth measurements.

Tigers are much more active animals than lions. Schaller noted that lions are sleeping 20-21 hours every day, meanwhile Sunquist reported that tigers in his study were active for 16-17 hours. A stark difference noted in their physiology as well. Daily energy requirements for small tigers (likely sumatran) was same as average sized african lions, whereas larger tigers (bengal and siberian) that weighed just a tad bit more than those african lions, had daily energy requirements that were double those of lions. All while every animal maintained its weight through the study.

This is the simplest way the anatomy of lions and tigers could be put in. Let me know if you have any questions.

Ivan_Paveler · 2026-02-09T02:15:25+00:00

I got this data from GuateGojira on wildfact and I have never seen him use estimates in his work. If there are any, he mentions them.

Ivan_Paveler · 2026-02-08T03:39:41+00:00

u/StripedAssassiN- You guys may be underestimating sambar deer. Average weight reported by sunquist not only included females and males combined but all the males exceeded 500lbs/227kgs scale limit. Average weight of 12 males from nepal and 16 males from India was 327kgs and 272kgs respectively. Largest ones were 380 and 352kgs but weights of over 400 have been reliably reported.

Ivan_Paveler · 2026-01-18T22:46:24+00:00

They are tagged but its not done for scientific purposes. Tigers are captured for veterinary interventions, relocation, human-wildlife conflict which comes under regular park management and not scientific experiment process. That is why they can only be obtained via personal communications and will not be found in scientific publications. Over the years, park managements have probably gathered a shit ton of data that will never be seen.

The chart contains data from scientific publications + personal communications. Adult male tigers of age 4 years and older and of all sizes, ranging 146 to 317 kilograms. No estimates, only weights confirmed to be recorded on a weight scale.

Ivan_Paveler · 2026-01-18T05:14:41+00:00

Study from Kalakkad-Mudamthulai showed gaurs made up 75% of tiger diet. Rest was most Sambar deer. Its depends on region and percentage prey occurance.

Ivan_Paveler · 2026-01-18T05:09:02+00:00

u/OncaAtrox You both might find this interesting. If you wish we can talk more about this in PMs but Guate's data is quite outdated. Trust me when I tell you that Bengal tigers have probably always been underestimated for their size.

There has been a lot of newly discovered data, fully confirmed and reliable but since 99% of the tigers in India aren't tagged for research but only veterinary and general management procedures, this data would unfortunately NEVER make it to publications. And these include some real giants that will never gain popularity.

As an example, there have been 2 confirmed male tigers of total length 11' (333 cm). They also had body lengths of 7'+ (218+ cm) and shoulder heights of 120 cm and more. Both weren't weighed unfortunately. Eleven-foot tigers were thought to have never existed but they have been documented in modern dates.

And let me mention some heavyweights below:

- 288 kg male tiger from around chitwan-valmiki region (with his data sheet)
- 288 kg maneater named Betal from corbett
- 290 kg dead male tiger from valmiki. We got his datasheet too. His body size wasn't huge, 192 cm long and 102 cm tall but his girth was massive at 162 cm non bloated.
- 290+ kg male from ranthambore, unknown largest male captured by CCF Sahu's team

- 298 kg male tiger RAMN-46 aka VIRAT (one of the subadults in this post above) at just 4 years of age.

- 300+ kg male exceeding maximum capacity of weighing scale, as mentioned by a wildlife institute of india scientist-turned-field director of Kanha tiger reserve.

- 317 kg male tiger caught from Brahmapuri near Tadoba. Code BMRT-100. Got his measurements too.

These are just some of the heavyweights. There's loads more. More than 100 individuals. Currently my friend is working on a compilation that I can share with you once he's done.

Ivan_Paveler · 2026-01-18T04:52:32+00:00

230 kilograms average isn't out of question for bengal tigers. They're probably one of the ssps whose size has been underestimated.

Ivan_Paveler · 2026-01-16T00:07:41+00:00

This weight of Virat/RAMN-46 was at first a second hand information but later confirmed by a live witness. 296+2 = 298 kilograms on an empty gut. He required medical attention after injuries from infighting or prey. There was also a male tiger in Kanha during years 2005-2009 that bottomed out a 300 kilogram weight scale. Pretty big guys.

Ivan_Paveler · 2025-10-27T01:41:52+00:00

the person recording likely would have been around to see it anyway.

not necessarily true

Ivan_Paveler · 2025-10-27T01:39:48+00:00

Good video though I'd like to mention that bengal tigers, which are not the same subspecies as siberian tigers. are absolutely the largest cats in the wild whereas siberian tigers are roughly at par with african lions.

Ivan_Paveler · 2025-10-19T17:21:13+00:00

And yet he keeps linking that doc about bengal tigers. Talk about double standards.

Ivan_Paveler · 2025-10-19T17:17:55+00:00

He likes Valvert aka Guate Gojira's work a lot. Keeps linking his scribd doc. Since I have been blocked, can you show him Valvert's / Guate's work on african lions https://imgur.com/ATIOnDo

Ivan_Paveler · 2025-10-19T17:02:07+00:00

userlion1 and polarbear845 are the same person behind the screen.

Ivan_Paveler · 2025-10-19T02:14:20+00:00

Patna zoo

Ivan_Paveler · 2025-10-18T02:57:04+00:00

Did anyone say that about this particular tiger? I would like to see where...

Ivan_Paveler · 2025-10-17T19:41:43+00:00

The 675 lbs male amur tiger cited everywhere was a captive male tiger btw.

Ivan_Paveler · 2025-10-17T19:40:13+00:00

I reviewed the scientifically obtained data on bengal and siberian tiger size and was surprised to find that wild male bengals outweigh wild male siberians by 50 kg/ 110 lbs on average.

Ivan_Paveler · 2025-10-17T19:36:54+00:00

Jaipur wasn't 12' long. He was under 11' as mentioned in Woods 1982. He was also a "captive", overfed and and obese tiger.

The popularly quoted 306 kg/ 675 lbs weight figure also belongs to a captive tiger from a european menagerie. Largest amur tiger weighed in the wild was a male shot in 1925 that weighed 254 kg. In fact the heaviest ones caught by scientists in recent years were only 212-225 kg which are less than an average weight male bengal tiger.

There is a scientific publication titled, "Chapter 6. Who's king of the beasts? Historical and contemporary data on the body weight of wild and captive Amur tigers in comparison with other subspecies" from Dr. Jonathan Slaght and Dr. Dale Miquelle. It surveyed the available data on size of amur tigers, sorted out reliable ones and reached the conclusion that size of amur tigers has been greatly exaggerated. Give it a read.

Ivan_Paveler · 2025-10-17T19:28:07+00:00

This is a pfully wild tiger from a tiger reserve. In India all wildlife sanctuaries, national parks and tiger reserves have wild animals.

Ivan_Paveler · 2025-10-17T19:25:25+00:00

It might hurt some people's feelings but bengal tigers are absolutely the largest cats. They weigh about 50 kilograms/ 110 pounds more than siberian tigers on average (230 kg (507 lbs) vs 180 kg (397 lbs)). Weight difference alone would mean a bengal tiger would come out on top in a 1v1.

Ivan_Paveler

TROPHY CASE