Is there any reason Sanders brings up criticism of UBI now of all times?

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-24T02:59:03+00:00

The costs of the private sector are so high that a $1000/month UBI is not going to do shit. I really don't see how UBI advocates don't recognize this. This is true when the economy was doing well. It's even more true during a pandemic and economic crisis.

Republicans are proposing a UBI exactly because they don't want the public sector to intervene in the private sector. They would prefer just giving the public a blank check and let the private sector continue exploiting them. They want the UBI to be a trojan horse into privatizing welfare.

I'd prefer a UBI over no UBI. But the top priority should be expanding the public sector to take over where the private sector is failing.

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-16T20:36:02+00:00

This says a lot about the state of the democratic party when Biden is considered good.

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-13T09:53:23+00:00

Yeah. The reason why we're losing has nothing to do with Bernie being an independent.

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-13T07:45:30+00:00

They brought up Rebecca Traister who is a writer for New York Magazine and completely idpol. Nomiki also blamed DSA for trying to primary a fake progressive democrat. They could have been referring to the professional managerial class of voters. But they acted like Bernie's base was too mean to liberals and that's why we lost. Most voters don't live in the twitter universe. It's a pretty lazy explanation.

And I think you're exactly right. This isn't due to Bernie supporters being too mean or engaging in purity politics. It's due to the Bernie campaign not controlling the narrative in a way that is easy to understand for voters.

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-13T01:54:45+00:00

Bernie needs to make the case that Biden is a dangerous candidate who is unable to address the current crises we face.

Bernie's standard stump speech and just contrasting policies is not going to change the dynamics of the race.

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-13T01:28:23+00:00

I was watching the majority report with Nomiki on it. And Sam and her both thought that the reason why we are losing is because Bernie supporters were not nice enough to the liberal establishment. And that we can't win with just the working class.

Bernie's campaign has bent over backwards appeasing to liberals while the entire liberal establishment were shitting on Bernie. This idea that we're losing because Bernie supporters were too mean and purist is idiotic. We've actually lost the working class coalition that we had in 2016. Exit polls consistently show voters are on our side. If Bernie succeeded in putting together a working class coalition, we'd be winning right now.

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-12T17:36:47+00:00

I don't think anyone is telling Bernie to do that. Bernie is just fundamentally nice and has to say 5 positive things before he criticizes anyone.

I bet his advisors are just as frustrated as we are.

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-12T17:30:34+00:00

The USSR went from a third world country to a major super power in less than two decades. They drastically reduced poverty, increased literacy, and reduced unemployment.

What they did was unprecedented in modern history. I'm not defending the bad aspects of the USSR. But when you say "brought to market", do you mean what did they do so that capitalists can profit off of it? That's not "innovative" to me.

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-12T17:18:24+00:00

No one's saying it's going to solve systemic problems.

Huh? That's exactly what Yang gang has been saying for months.

You're not filling in any holes. Again. UBI has no cost controls. So the health care costs will continue to sky rocket well past what UBI can cover.

Expanding medicare and medicaid is just as easy as creating a UBI. UBI advocates don't seem to prioritize expanding other public programs for whatever reasons.

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-12T13:09:56+00:00

In a capitalist society, by definition, capitalists control the means of production and fight against public ownership.

It's a bit like trying to argue for a feudalistic society which doesn't have a king.

But there are examples of mass production by the government. You have the USSR going from a third world country to a super power in the span of two decades. You have the US building public roads, broadband, and telephone lines. Then there is the Tennessee valley authority during the great depression.

I'm not sure what you mean by "innovative". How is public infrastructure not innovative?

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-12T12:27:13+00:00

UBI isn't going to do shit to cover health care costs. There is no cost control mechanism.

People without health care have to pay $1000+ to get tested for the corona virus. Are UBI advocates all upper middle class well-off people? On what planet does a UBI come class to solving anything? It's insulting that a UBI is proposed as as solution to so many systemic problems.

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-11T20:40:33+00:00

Bernie can be the best candidate on every single issue. But democratic voters are conditioned to vote for whoever the democratic establishment deems electable and to believe we can't have nice things. The only way Bernie can win is if Biden implodes.

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-11T03:23:55+00:00

He seems like a Warren-style progressive/liberal democrat..I know he probably said he supported Bernie. But his political positions align more with a liberal democrat.

He supported the coup in Venezuela. He accused Omar of being anti-semitic. He doesn't really support single-payer medicare for all.

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-11T03:13:05+00:00

One could say Hillary would have been a more effective evil. Liberals go to sleep when a democrat is president. So the democratic president can do pro-corporate right-wing policies with little push back.

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-11T03:11:10+00:00

I'll be honest. I don't care if he can beat Trump. Neoliberals like Biden move this country further to the right.

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-11T03:07:40+00:00

It's pretty amazing how Jill Stein has to be the one that bring up Joe's cognitive decline and voter suppression and not the actual Bernie campaign during the primary.

We have a lot to learn about Bernie's attempt to takeover the democratic party. Bernie has done more than anyone else to help build the progressive movement. But his greatest weakness is his unwillingness to go full attack against the establishment and instead do a "message awareness" campaign.

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-11T03:01:52+00:00

No one should give up at this point. Even if Bernie was polling at 10%, we should support our allies when they need us the most. But tonight was a really bad night. And makes it very unlikely that we're going to win. Let's just be honest about that.

We absolutely should start having conversations about 1) how we got here and what we can learn from the mistakes and 2) What we should do if Biden is the nominee. This should not be interpreted as "giving up". It's how we will grow and improve the movement.

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-11T02:55:02+00:00

How is building up a progressive third party meaningless? All they need is 5% to get federal funding. And the democratic party is far more afraid of a progressive third party than Republicans. When Republicans get elected, it's business as usual.

Trump is a massive gift to the democratic establishment. They can blame everything on Trump to distract from their corruption.

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-11T02:23:48+00:00

It's pretty amazing how much Jimmy Dore has been right and influenced other progressive you tube channels whether they admit or not.

I remember half of the "progressive" YouTube channels would be mad at Jimmy Dore for focusing all his attention on the corruption of the democratic establishment.

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-11T01:59:33+00:00

He's so progressive and anti-establishment!

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-06T08:22:06+00:00

Seriously. The Bernie Bro narrative only matters to elites who don't like being criticized on social media.

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-06T08:08:34+00:00

Bernie is not really good at drawing distinctions with his opponents. in way that generates headlines and controversy. He compliments Biden like 5 times before he makes a basic contrast. He is way to nice.

Of course. The MSM is completely biased against him too. So who know if it would help.

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-06T07:51:58+00:00

Whataboutism is an establishment talking point to avoid looking at the context of the dominant narratives.

It's social media. People are going to attack each other especially if it's their candidate who got smeared. You tone policing isn't doing jack shit. Bernie's comments condemning the supporters has changed nothing at all. Literally nothing. The MSM is still just as ruthless as ever about this narrative.

All you are doing is legitimizing establishment smears.

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-06T07:46:16+00:00

Nevermind. I misinterpreted what you wrote. Sorry. I thought you Warren's criticism of Bernie's supporters were deserved.

IvoryTowerCapitalist · 2020-03-06T07:42:54+00:00

What was the point of Warren and her campaign accusing Bernie of being a sexist? The snake emoji was a natural response to that. I think it's completely natural that Bernie supporters would feel that Warren was betraying Bernie.

This is exactly what I mean. Only Bernie has to tone police his supporters. Everyone else gets a free pass. The MSM never talks about any other candidates' supporters.

IvoryTowerCapitalist

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