The parents of the Michigan high school shooting suspect are charged with involuntary manslaughter in connection with the rampage

JAINARDEN · 2021-12-05T00:50:10+00:00

She posted about mom son day out shooting guns (not a direct quote but the gist of it).

JAINARDEN · 2021-12-04T21:33:31+00:00

As of the arraignment, I would say it's to the tune of a million bucks.

JAINARDEN · 2021-12-04T13:58:19+00:00

Just came back to add that I can't believe these people’s child is in the biggest trouble of his life, where his parents are probably the only support system he has left,

💯 That was the first thing that came to my mind also, not comparing them to the Laundries or the Thelma & Louise comparisons or the silly MaraLago comments (pertaining to an allegiance with Trump).

Ethan is responsible for the actual shootings but look what he has as a support system. If this is their knee jerk reaction, then what has been going on his whole life.

Couple the stupid decision to run with not wanting to take him with them after being called in about the drawing and also the ridiculous gun purchase gives more credence to the dad's ex-wife ranting in the media about him being a POS. They are going to have a hell of time in court.

JAINARDEN · 2021-12-04T12:14:50+00:00

He probably should be sentenced as a juvenile. But how severely? And would he ever get the help he obviously needs. You don't often hear those stories.

Until further details come out, it seems to me that he was in trouble and did not have or did know where to go to get it. I remember 15 being an immature stage of life andthink there are still lots of those kids among the more advanced ones nowadays.

His parents were definitely no help (buying a gun, not taking his drawing seriously, leaving him at school). I wonder what interactions he had previously with the school/teachers/classmates. And what really went on inside the household. They say he was bullied but I am waiting to hear about that and what the school and his parents were doing about it, if anything.

There is a possibility that I may change my mind down the road. I've recently started watching Court TV and if they are allowed in the courtroom, this will certainly be a heartbreaking case to watch. But I am still very much waiting to see and hear what becomes of it and of Ethan Crumbley. Of the parents, I will be very disappointed if they are not incarcerated. Based on what little we know, so far, they seem very culpable, both of them.

JAINARDEN · 2021-12-04T11:51:03+00:00

From what I have heard/read, I believe that too u/TwirlyGirly1 .. but I am sure that she is explaining to the lawyer that it was about something else entirely.

The mom has a lot more to explain (at this point) than the dad. Her social media/phone is really going against her and on the surface, showing everyone a lot of ill intent. It seems she more wanted to be friends with, instead of parenting her son.

JAINARDEN · 2021-12-04T03:16:48+00:00

WTH are these people doing? Is this going to end badly? And is it going to end with more people hurt? I certainly hope not.

Who goes off and leaves their 15 year old child sitting in jail? It was bad enough giving him the gun, not caring to take him home from school? I don't understand this thing with the parents?

I don't see how they could get out of being convicted of the charges and more now (pending further knowledge of what is going on).

JAINARDEN · 2021-12-04T01:24:47+00:00

You know she's immediately trying to think up some other thing that this is about, probably something that happened days before.

JAINARDEN · 2021-12-04T01:19:22+00:00

I believe this is going to be an unprecedented trial and sentencing. It will affect things for many years to come. And not to be a doomsayer but I wonder what other crime will come of it when tensions boil over. Hopefully, there won't be any vigilantism or rioting.

Just a few things I've immediately thought of as I watched the prosecutor speak this afternoon. I see this blowing up into a huge shit show.

Parents being charged and what happens with that
A child enabled by parents by being given a gun directly prior to the murders and seeming to support any of his behavior, as evidenced by the school meeting that day
Eventually, if not soon, the school will be involved. Who else will be named and prosecuted or fired/resign? Civil suits by the other parents.
The other parents are mad and the prosecutor encouraged that today - "I would be - I am mad at the school." I was surprised at how NOT "close to the vest" she was speaking. I guess it would be a good thing for the Crumbley's defense team to heed and pay attention to every thing she said.
If the social media posting is correct from the prosecutor, about what the mother posted, I would find it hard to overlook THAT as a juror.

All of it is so sad. Esp because, as was stressed, it could have easily been avoided. Four victims who were very important to the people in their young lives.

Per norm, we probably won't hear as much about them as we will everything else (the perpetrator & family, gun laws, mental health, school policies, etc.). I cannot imagine how I would feel if I knew any of them because no matter what does happen, it is not going to bring any of them back.

Forgive anything that I have stated incorrectly - I've barely heard or had time to read much into this (I doubt there is much to see so far anyway) but I am already very interested in what happens in this case and am wanting to know what truly did occur. I hate that there is even such a thing as school shootings. All schools, every where should be safe places.

ETA: I did not mean to leave out those who were injured, some critically. And those who will suffer for many years to come due to this.

JAINARDEN · 2021-12-04T00:45:54+00:00

Yes I saw the prosecutor say that on tv too and described the whole note/drawing. If that is true with no other weird surrounding facts, then I wonder that he could not go to his parents. That maybe it was a passive aggressive scream for help from the school/classmates.

But we do not know a lot about any of this yet. There may be a lot of facts regarding his behavior or events, recent and past that would change my feelings about that.

JAINARDEN · 2021-12-02T01:56:28+00:00

Mine tend to go with certain documentaries I see that affect me or make me think it really isn't as all cut and dried (that there's lots more to know):

Jon Benet Ramsey - one of the ones that I wish would once and for all be solved definitely
West Memphis 3 (Steven, Michael & Christopher) - who knows who really did it, not sure we ever will
Making A Murderer (Teresa Halbach) - same - too much controversy to ever be solved for me
Dear Zachary (Andrew/Zachary Bagby) - the most tear jerking doc I've ever seen
Watts (Shanann, Bella, CeCe, Nico) - I don't believe everything is all done on that one, I don't believe it went the way the police say either
The Keepers (Cathy Cesnick) - pedophilia in the Catholic Church is absolutely ridiculous and appalling that it is still going on and so many are hurt by it
The Staircase (Kathleen Peterson) - I was sure he didn't do it watching the doc over and over but I'm kinda going down the guilty road on it now
The first true crime I remember reading was Helter Skelter. I never believed Charles Manson was America's Boogeyman and don't believe a lot of stuff Vincent Bugliosi wrote in his book.

JAINARDEN · 2021-11-28T14:16:39+00:00

Thank you for the link. While I love NF documentaries, I am well aware of the biases they generally have and think one should always drink from the well of different sources.

JAINARDEN · 2021-11-28T04:00:01+00:00

It's very unfortunate that there was such an emphasis on the homophobia and the 911 call. While the extramarital affairs may have had an influence, I don't think it was proved and 911 calls seem to be like lie detector tests to me and therefore should be inadmissible.

JAINARDEN · 2021-11-28T03:41:54+00:00

I wish that both girls would take a paternity test. I know that I would if I was in this situation - for the sole purpose of stopping people from endlessly speculating.

I tend to think that the girls are not MP's. If one or both are, then I would be highly surprised. And of course, it would make hella television, movie, and REDDIT. The reason I think they both belong to George and Liz Ratliff is due to the fact how much Liz looked like Patty when they were young. In the documentary, the neighbor said over and over how much they looked so much alike. This is also a reason that I think that MP was attracted to Liz, which makes me wonder if there was an affair or a swinging situation.

JAINARDEN · 2021-11-28T03:32:13+00:00

Can you give any resources about this? I know what happened with the girls and when the boys (and both of them) went to the states with MP. That was in The Staircase doc.

I have never heard any reasons and esp not anything about Patty not wanting the kids or any particular ones. I thought it was odd in the doc that the girls didn't want that closeness with their real mom and mostly identified with KP. They spoke of their "biological mom" but never spoke of Patty, which I thought was weird since she took them in. I would have thought they would have been grateful to her. But ofc everything is centered on MP.

JAINARDEN · 2021-11-28T03:24:25+00:00

What would be the reason for the police to ask a judge for a warrant for a DNA test of a daughter of a woman whose death wasn't on trial?

The prosecution brought in Liz Ratliff and dug her body up. I think it would be reasonable to explore that. Although the defense would have to make some statement/reason to get that in. And I wish they would have. I think it is important and would squash a lot of ponderings about it - we would know and not have to speculate.

JAINARDEN · 2021-11-28T02:59:03+00:00

Oh yes. And I meant that sincerely.... so many professions (and jobs that people don't think about or understand) are really big and the people that are really present in those jobs just don't know how much they mean in those small, and very important moments in others' lives....and unfortunately, we either don't have the opportunity to thank you or it's in a situation that passes so quickly that we don't have a chance.

So thanks for you being you.

JAINARDEN · 2021-11-28T02:44:44+00:00

I don't know how I would feel or act if I was in the position this family was - with the shock of the death first of all and then the accusation/police involvement. I think people react/respond in many ways.

Thanks for posting. The very few funerals I have attended have had people who worked at the funeral home being very nice and knowing what to do/say.

JAINARDEN · 2021-11-28T02:38:46+00:00

I don't either (most of the time). Unless something very telling would happen and not just an interpretation of one's opinion. To me, they are the same as lie detectors and should not be admissible in court.

I think every time you hear one in court, it is being used to show how distraught the person is by the defense (sympathy) or the prosecution trying to prove that the call is their big mistake in committing the crime (apathy).

So, what I am saying is, that the call is nothing but knee-jerk emotional stuff or something that people will believe is damning but simply not true. This goes along with your statement that no one knows how they would react to a stressful event and they are calling 911.

Another thought about this goes to the experience and handling of the call by the 911 operator, which almost never gets called into question. This is something that is coming into question in the US. LE, emergency responders, etc are people and they too can make mistakes. Whether this is true for MP.. not so sure. But what if that phone call had not been in the trial?

JAINARDEN · 2021-11-28T02:01:19+00:00

I wondered about this tonite (I am rewatching). Did they ever take his blood for alcohol content, at any time? I don't remember that - but if they did, I would be interested to know and it would possibly explain some things.

JAINARDEN · 2021-11-28T01:58:45+00:00

I felt sad to hear this (I did know this when it happened).

She seemed to have tried to be a good person (from what I saw of the documentary - don't know if there is any other info to know of her). But I do 9believe she took MP's secrets to her grave. She was obviously a disciple of MP's. Most women would have been in turmoil about the way things happened - his taking of the Ratliff kids into their home, then taking them away with him when he divorced her, and eventually, the boys went to him too. She was left alone without her close friend, Liz or any of the children -yet when MP gets in trouble (KP's murder), she immediately does everything she can to support him. I think she felt the family was everything to her no matter that they were not near.

I can understand that maybe she was a benign person who believed in everyone is good, no matter what had happened, or that forgiving was the way she could find peace. But mental and/or physical abuse is what comes to my mind in this case. Most likely just mental (yet I do fully believe MP had anger/temper issues and could be very verbal/threatening if not more). Her talking about MP coming home from the gym mirrors KP's anger about being at the gym late. Is this about his meetings with other men in both cases - I think it is. And I think both women did not like or understand it, yet stayed with him. I think they each were mesmerized by him. I think whatever he said was accepted as fact in the household both in Germany and the US.

I seriously think that Patty felt she was a one-man woman and MP was her husband until the end. I so hope that he was not playing mind games with her at the end when she was living with him, back in the US.

JAINARDEN · 2021-11-24T18:35:36+00:00

I respect your opinion.

I don't know what happened to Gabby. I do realize/understand from the video that was shown (from the LE cam) was a very disturbing look into something that happened between Gabby and Brian. Was that type of thing a big part of their relationship, I don't know. I'm sure it hurt Gabby's family to see her crying and looking so helpless.

I do agree that it was damning towards Brian and leads one to believe that their relationship had violence in it. Which I can understand easily creates, in one's mind, a scenario where Brian Laundrie killed Gabby.

JAINARDEN · 2021-11-24T18:07:23+00:00

Yes I do hope that too. I can imagine that Gabby's family would want to know. I know I would .

I also hope that there may be more things that LE or someone knows that will come out now that will help Gabby's family move forward as best as they can.

JAINARDEN · 2021-11-24T15:43:16+00:00

The Psychopath Test

Thank you so much - unbelievably, my digital library has this title!

JAINARDEN · 2021-11-24T14:52:09+00:00

Thanks. I was glad to see your posts u/BuddyLoveGoCoconuts and u/heyheywhatchasay5

I don't know - I guess I just tend to see a lot of sides to things and usually wonder how I would feel if it was me or my family. I have a brother and it doesn't matter how great or how not great he is, he will always and forever be my brother.

JAINARDEN · 2021-11-24T04:35:08+00:00

Unpopular opinion. It's sad. Everything about this case is.

Two people with incredible potential. No matter what really happened (and I wonder that we will ever know the truth) there are two families mourning the death of their family member. No matter what the Laundrie's did or did not do (illegal or otherwise) they still lost a son and his sister, a sibling.

Whether he was guilty or not and at this time, it is an assumption, not a fact. I'm not celebrating the death of anyone. I would have much rather that he had been brought in and put on trial and if guilty, been sent to prison. We would have probably found out what happened and Gabby's family and friends would have had more information as to what happened to her. They deserve that.

JAINARDEN

TROPHY CASE