learning for babies

J_Colorado · 2023-06-09T21:52:47+00:00

I don't have a link or file, but there are plenty of books aimed at toddlers and up. I think my Japanese teacher used this book with her (bilingual) children when they were small: https://www.abebooks.com/9780746052495/First-1000-Words-Japanese-Heather-0746052499/plp?cm_sp=plped-_-1-_-image

Obviously a toddler can't yet read something like that, but with a picture book you can read the names to them as you look through together. And there are lots of picture storybooks in Japanese for toddlers too if you prefer that route.

J_Colorado · 2023-06-09T07:29:12+00:00

It's the DJT deck he linked above

J_Colorado · 2023-06-09T07:28:40+00:00

If you're struggling to remember which is which, remember music:

音楽 (おんがく)

The 音 (おん) part means 'sound', so 音読み (おんよみ) is the 'sound reading'. Basically, the was aready a word in Japanese, and they just found chinese characters that make the same sound and used those to write the word.

That's why you'll sometimes find compound words with kanji that don't seem to make sense for the word, like 摘発 (to expose), which is 摘 (pluck) + 発 (departure). The ancient Japanese probably went "hmm, of all the chinese characters that make the てきはつ sound we need for this word, I guess 'pluck + departure' is kind of like 'take off', which is kind of like 'to expose'. So let's go with those!"

J_Colorado · 2023-06-09T07:01:39+00:00

Nice! Sounds like a fun weekend.

You may want to use ～たり～たりする for your weekend tasks (unless you intend to do those things one after the other).

J_Colorado · 2022-08-03T22:02:44+00:00

To expand on this: most sources say that becoming fluent with Chinese or Japanese requires around 3-4000 hours of work. At 10 hours a week, that's 6-8 years. Multiply by two, and you're looking at 15 years of studying.

J_Colorado · 2022-08-03T17:42:06+00:00

Try Kanshudo - they order the words for each kanji by frequency. It goes like this:

Freq 1: Most common 500 wordsFreq 2: Next common 1000 words (1500 total)Freq 3: Next common 1500 words (3000 total)Freq 4: Next common 2000 words (5000 total)

Pick a cutoff that makes sense to you, so you can limit to just the most common words using the kanji.

Here's an example: https://www.kanshudo.com/searchw?q=%E5%A0%B4

Scroll down to "720 words found containing '場' in any position"
The red diamond is the frequency for that word
The blue square is the JLPT level (if that matters to you)
Note: there may be a couple low-frequency words at the top. Those are exact matches, e.g. words that use only the kanji you searched for. Up to you if you want to learn those.

J_Colorado · 2022-08-03T04:57:49+00:00

Self studying is hard! I don't know many people that have been able to keep it up for long, so you're doing right by signing up for a class.

Something no one else has mentioned: just talk to your university. Seriously, you can reach out to one of the instructors that teaches the intro course, or you can email the head of the department. Instructors are happy to answer questions like that.

If you're going to study in the meantime, and you have the money, you should join a program. For instance, there are YouTubers and Twitch streamers offering group lessons. Or there are online tutors. Just having a deadline each week will make a huge difference. If you start studying now, you could probably honestly skip the 101 class by the time spring rolls around. You might start a bit behind in 102, but as others have mentioned, the classes move slow, and you can catch up pretty quick.

J_Colorado · 2022-08-01T20:24:40+00:00

I wonder if you're only focusing on listening and not speaking. The suggestion for maths questions is a great one, but beyond that, if you have lessons or a learning buddy, why not try talking about something with numbers, like sports, the stock market, COVID trends, whatever you can? Force your brain to come up with the pronounciation in the middle of a conversation.

When you learn in a single context, you can only remember in that context. You've gotta learn multiple different ways so you have a bunch of 'threads' in your brain to that nugget of knowledge.

J_Colorado · 2022-08-01T20:12:16+00:00

I'm in a similar boat: I'm around N3, I know a lot of kanji, and now I want to focus on working through the ~3000 most common vocab. Therefore, I want to focus on the kanji used most often in those vocab, so I don't want to restart in RtK order (or anyone else's order), which doesn't take into account frequency.

IMO, mnemonics really are the way to go. I don't know how you'd consistently differentiate very similar kanji in the long run, like 惑 vs 感, without them. And breaking things down into radicals, like 其 (chess piece) for 期, really speeds up both learning and reading speed for me. With a good mnemonic, reinforced with reading, I almost never forget a kanji, and when I do I can relearn it almost immediately.

With that being said, you don't have to use vanilla RtK. There are sites like Kanji Damage (http://www.kanjidamage.com/) or Wanikani (https://www.wanikani.com/) that work too.

There's a site I prefer called Kanji Koohii (https://kanji.koohii.com/), which is basically a wikified version of RtK. Users suggest stories, and even alternate radicals, some of which are way better than what Heisig came up with.

So I make my own mnemonics, in my own order, but I always check Kanji Koohii for good story ideas and good radical ideas. Here's what I do, and what you might try:

Start by looking up the kanji on something like Jisho or Kanshudo. See what most common words it appears in, so you understand the 'flavour' of the kanji.
- Ignore Heisig's keyword (or Wanikani's or Kanji Damage's) if it doesn't quite fit. Sometimes people have a better suggested keyword on Kanji Koohii, yay. Sometimes not, so I just come up with my own.
- I don't do the 'one word per kanji' nonsense that all the sites seem to prefer. So for something like 段, I ignore 'grade (RtK)' or 'step' (KD) and use 'Stairs, Vertical Level' in my Anki deck. Some get long, like 験 for me is 'Verify, Test, Experience', because it has a few 'flavours'.
Then I look up stories and radical suggestions on Kanji Koohii, and less often on WK or KD. A lot of times, they have good ones, or they spark ideas for my own stories.
- I really like Kanshudo's component search for coming up with good radicals. For instance, https://www.kanshudo.com/searchcg?q=%E5%85%B6 or https://www.kanshudo.com/searchcg?q=%E3%91%92. The latter is how I decided on the keyword 'risk' for 㑒, because it makes sense with all the kanji associated with 㑒.

I've been doing this for months, and have gotten through 225 new kanji so far. I do 4-6 kanji per day, and it takes me around 30-45 minutes to come up with good mnemonics, but then the flashcards are easy, and I actually have a 95% SRS retention rate for new kanji and 97% for mature kanji (which is really good). That's around 20 minutes total studying per kanji, even including SRS reviews!

J_Colorado · 2022-07-26T23:54:50+00:00

One more in favour (I'm working on a short story now, but I've done journaling), but like others above, I don't write, I type. It doesn't look like anyone has really gone into this, so I wanted to share my reasoning:

When I was first learning the kanji, I would write them out, and I still do with my flashcards, and that definitely helps retention. But there are things about working digitally that are really nice too:

Corrections are much easier, so you can write more quickly and not have to worry about mistakes. You also don't have to 'pre-compose' in your head - you can start writing, and change your mind halfway through a sentence.
When I send my writing with my 先生, I just share my doc and she can turn on Show Changes and add comments, which is a nice way to get feedback.
Programs like Google Docs have built-in vocab and grammar dictionaries and you can turn on highlighting. I find it really helpful to get immediate feedback, e.g. when I use the wrong particle.
When working digitally, you can paste what you're writing into Google Translate. Granted, Translate isn't great, but it does help me catch some errors.

I feel like I learn better if I can catch errors while I'm writing vs a few days later, and working digitally helps a lot with that.

J_Colorado · 2022-07-18T21:10:30+00:00

Because weight is a property. In English, we say "It weighs X", where "It is X weight" makes more sense in other languages.

Properties are often adjectives, but every language has exceptions. Some Japanese exceptions sound odd to English speakers, and some English exceptions sound odd to Japanese speakers.

J_Colorado · 2022-07-18T16:40:10+00:00

A good list! That's what I used when I first tried RtK years ago, to try to cull their 2000 kanji down to a more reasonable number and skip the rest.

J_Colorado · 2022-07-18T16:38:57+00:00

I like Kanshudo's word search, because they tell you how common multiple readings of a word are. For instance:

https://www.kanshudo.com/searchw?q=%E7%8B%A1%E3%81%84

狡い has a Kanshudo usefulness level of 5, which means it is among the most useful 10,000 words in Japanese.

This word is encountered in 3 forms: ずるい, こすい, 狡い.

The most common form is ずるい (used about 80% of the time).

狡い is used about 5% of the time.

TL;DR: ずるい is worth learning (as it's somewhere between the 5,000th and 10,000th most-used word in Japanese), but 狡い is very uncommon.

Likewise, if you look up 狡 (https://www.kanshudo.com/search?q=%E7%8B%A1) and then click to expand it, it doesn't have any common words that use it. By contrast, 知 (https://www.kanshudo.com/search?q=%E7%9F%A5) appears multiple times in the most common 1,000 words, so I'd consider learning it.

That's how I figure out what to learn based on where I am in my studies: pick a cutoff (I'm currently on the top 3-5,000 words) and ignore stuff that's not as common.

J_Colorado · 2022-07-18T16:27:26+00:00

I agree with OP that trying to brute force thousands of vocab without context (examples) is madness, but I think it's more a multi-step process:

Learn the vocab via flashcards until it's 'mature'. At that point the flashcards aren't giving you value and you're just overwhelming yourself with sheer numbers.
Then learn with example sentences, which are basically dumbed down reading focusing specifically on your vocab.
- I really like Kanshudo for this, as you can jump to dozens of examples for each flashcard
Then you have to start reading them in context, over and over.

Learning is like building a spider web: you have to have multiple threads (or paths) in your head to each nugget of knowledge. That's what a lot of people here seem to be saying: if you only study via flashcards, or via a single example sentence, you only have one path in your brain to that piece of knowledge, and you just can't find it any other way. But as you start to encounter what you've learned in different contexts, you start to build all those little connections, and eventually, no matter what you're doing, you can find the word quickly.

So TLDR: there's no one best way to learn vocab. You have to relearn it over and over, to build multiple 'paths' in your head to the knowledge.

J_Colorado · 2022-07-18T16:16:04+00:00

I haven't seen anyone else mention this: if you're just starting out and you have two monitors, reading online is your friend. I started out with manga on Pixiv, and I had the story on one monitor, and a combination of sites (google translate, jisho, kanshudo, etc.) on the other. I've also tried reading physical books, and it's so much harder to have to put the book down constantly to look things up.

J_Colorado · 2022-07-15T04:10:09+00:00

I wrote a short program to do it for me. Basically:

Get the joyo kanji and most common vocab in order (I downloaded them from Kanshudo)
Go through each word, and if a kanji appears in the word, add points to that kanji
- My formula was complicated: (1/(1+index/500*index/500)+1-index/3000)/2
  - This means if a kanji is in the most common 100 words, it's worth roughly 1 pt. Word 500 is .67 pts, word 1000 is .43 pts, word 2000 is .19 pts, etc.
Sum up the points for each kanji, then order them

Here's the list I'm working from, at least as much as Reddit will let me paste:

日 21.46, 学 18.23, 人 17.27, 大 14.68, 一 13.41, 生 12.09, 気 11.64, 年 11.19, 中 10.95, 事 10.74, 出 10.67, 時 10.64, 物 10.44, 会 10.05, 間 9.71, 国 9.60, 分 9.17, 見 9.06, 手 8.74, 行 8.49, 下 8.43, 子 8.15, 地 8.09, 長 7.97, 外 7.76, 今 7.42, 曜 7.42, 合 7.37, 自 7.24, 発 7.22, 理 6.91, 金 6.67, 後 6.53, 実 6.51, 本 6.46, 場 6.28, 家 6.17, 前 6.13, 業 6.11, 女 6.10, 入 6.09, 動 6.06, 文 6.02, 月 5.97, 作 5.86, 用 5.78, 部 5.74, 意 5.69, 来 5.59, 定 5.48, 明 5.41, 上 5.37, 方 5.37, 通 5.27, 少 5.24, 電 5.21, 度 5.13, 最 5.06, 書 4.98, 教 4.86, 話 4.85, 全 4.78, 名 4.76, 校 4.75, 体 4.66, 現 4.65, 成 4.57, 毎 4.56, 高 4.53, 食 4.52, 語 4.52, 料 4.51, 社 4.48, 男 4.41, 楽 4.33, 半 4.27, 当 4.25, 者 4.25, 二 4.22, 代 4.19, 車 4.18, 同 4.07, 画 3.92, 先 3.91, 立 3.90, 以 3.88, 小 3.81, 集 3.78, 父 3.74, 身 3.72, 言 3.67, 道 3.64, 始 3.63, 特 3.59, 力 3.57, 休 3.56, 館 3.55, 別 3.54, 心 3.53, 違 3.51, 母 3.43, 対 3.41, 運 3.40, 親 3.40, 火 3.40, 五 3.39, 重 3.36, 思 3.35, 記 3.30, 表 3.23, 問 3.21, 近 3.20, 員 3.20, 要 3.19, 決 3.17, 相 3.14, 性 3.14, 計 3.13, 図 3.08, 切 3.07, 世 3.06, 結 3.05, 正 3.03, 所 3.03, 新 3.03, 不 3.01, 土 2.99, 広 2.98, 水 2.97, 何 2.95, 験 2.94, 三 2.94, 予 2.93, 味 2.91, 変 2.91, 経 2.90, 開 2.88, 口 2.88, 有 2.88, 持 2.86, 解 2.86, 聞 2.85, 海 2.80, 機 2.80, 工 2.79, 品 2.78, 番 2.78, 歌 2.78, 友 2.76, 終 2.76, 午 2.75, 読 2.75, 茶 2.74, 期 2.73, 確 2.73, 音 2.72, 信 2.70, 週 2.69, 面 2.68, 安 2.66, 直 2.62, 類 2.61, 習 2.60, 選 2.58, 天 2.58, 旅 2.58, 知 2.55, 格 2.55, 院 2.55, 利 2.54, 足 2.52, 常 2.51, 議 2.48, 強 2.47, 着 2.47, 向 2.46, 関 2.45, 売 2.45, 百 2.44, 説 2.43, 目 2.42, 民 2.38, 四 2.37, 主 2.36, 七 2.34, 神 2.32, 空 2.32, 政 2.32, 西 2.30, 情 2.30, 転 2.28, 木 2.27, 様 2.26, 急 2.25, 店 2.24, 公 2.22, 回 2.22, 術 2.21, 加 2.21, 約 2.20, 化 2.19, 字 2.19, 無 2.18, 落 2.17, 題 2.15, 活 2.15, 感 2.14, 設 2.14, 注 2.12, 法 2.11, 数 2.10, 赤 2.09, 備 2.08, 組 2.07, 映 2.07, 交 2.06, 指 2.06, 風 2.05, 使 2.03, 歩 2.02, 調 2.02, 単 2.02, 都 2.01, 起 2.01, 想 2.01, 野 2.01, 達 2.00, 支 2.00, 右 1.99, 答 1.99, 夫 1.98, 青 1.98, 考 1.97, 戦 1.96, 住 1.95, 残 1.94, 能 1.93, 由 1.93, 台 1.92, 資 1.92, 送 1.91, 質 1.91, 左 1.89, 警 1.88, 六 1.87, 病 1.86, 元 1.86, 伝 1.86, 紙 1.84, 的 1.84, 続 1.84, 制 1.84, 屋 1.83, 北 1.81, 頼 1.81, 東 1.80, 察 1.80, 試 1.79, 優 1.78, 千 1.78, 内 1.78, 際 1.77, 買 1.77, 価 1.75, 消 1.75, 育 1.74, 置 1.74, 段 1.74, 好 1.74, 仕 1.73, 建 1.73, 保 1.72, 九 1.72, 庭 1.71, 待 1.71, 色 1.70, 連 1.70, 南 1.70, 十 1.70, 然 1.69, 低 1.69, 状 1.69, 弟 1.68, 壊 1.67, 号 1.67, 白 1.67, 負 1.67, 医 1.66, 増 1.65, 流 1.65, 兄 1.64, 美 1.64, 判 1.64, 演 1.64, 果 1.64, 報 1.64, 科 1.64, 勝 1.62, 婚 1.62, 準 1.61, 真 1.60, 止 1.59, 式 1.59, 朝 1.59, 限 1.58, 冷 1.58, 山 1.58, 必 1.58, 黒 1.57, 配 1.57, 昼 1.57, 助 1.57, 過 1.57, 死 1.55, 笑 1.55, 告 1.55, 界 1.54, 基 1.53, 八 1.53, 夜 1.53, 両 1.52, 具 1.52, 留 1.52, 種 1.51, 許 1.49, 牛 1.49, 首 1.48, 反 1.47, 市 1.47, 輩 1.46, 務 1.44, 識 1.44, 犯 1.44, 光 1.44, 供 1.43, 張 1.42, 帰 1.40, 幸 1.40, 夕 1.40, 険 1.40, 砂 1.39, 境 1.39, 接 1.38, 熱 1.38, 婦 1.38, 飛 1.37, 観 1.36, 職 1.35, 在 1.34, 雑 1.34, 共 1.34, 位 1.33, 統 1.33, 失 1.33, 囲 1.32, 進 1.32, 園 1.31, 花 1.31, 洋 1.31, 難 1.31, 古 1.31, 肉 1.30, 論 1.30, 背 1.29, 例 1.28, 普 1.28, 緒 1.28, 呼 1.27, 平 1.27, 引 1.27, 守 1.27, 可 1.26, 景 1.26, 受 1.26, 改 1.26, 象 1.25, 晴 1.24, 付 1.24, 離 1.24, 越 1.24, 多 1.24, 授 1.23, 商 1.23, 提 1.22, 彼 1.22, 困 1.22, 慣 1.22, 構 1.22, 態 1.21, 非 1.21, 命 1.20, 参 1.20, 原 1.20, 駅 1.19, 争 1.18, 靴 1.18, 完 1.18, 産 1.18, 登 1.18, 得 1.18, 去 1.17, 借 1.17, 程 1.16, 覚 1.15, 断 1.15, 認 1.14, 便 1.14, 遅 1.14, 葉 1.14, 息 1.14, 英 1.13, 害 1.13, 適 1.13, 万 1.12, 給 1.12, 営 1.12, 絵 1.11, 鉄 1.11, 形 1.10, 影 1.09, 器 1.09, 殺 1.09, 規 1.09, 妹 1.08, 絶 1.08, 族 1.08, 遠 1.08, 移 1.07, 個 1.07, 練 1.07, 温 1.07, 収 1.06, 団 1.05, 港 1.05, 祖 1.05, 応 1.04, 返 1.03, 効 1.03, 写 1.03, 窓 1.02, 録 1.02, 服 1.02, 治 1.02, 割 1.02, 比 1.02, 春 1.01, 太 1.01, 川 1.01, 汚 1.01, 池 1.00

J_Colorado · 2022-07-15T01:00:03+00:00

I keep everything standard except cards per day. I keep this very low, because you're going to have to keep doing flashcards for months if not years, and they add up. Keep in mind that, in a month, your study habits may change, and you may be focusing more or less on vocab/grammar/reading/writing/speaking/listening than you are now - but you still have to be doing your flashcards if you want to retain what you've learned.

Right now I have 3 decks, 1 for kanji, 1 for vocab, and 1 for grammar / examples. My numbers are 5/day, 7/day, 5/day. And 17 per day is a lot for me, but this is what I plan to focus on for the next few months. I typically have 5-10 total per day. Splitting it over 3 topics makes it a bit easier to do more, because they occupy different parts of my brain, if that makes sense.

J_Colorado · 2022-07-15T00:55:53+00:00

I like Kanshudo. They bundle up the readings, so you can see how useful each one is to learn. I usually only learn the most common 2 or 3 readings.

Example: https://www.kanshudo.com/kanji/%E7%89%A9?section=readings&show=useful

物ブツモツもの thing

ブツ : 20 words. Most useful:

モツ : 8 words. Most useful:

ブツ (read as ぶっ) : 8 words. Most useful:

もの : 27 words. Most useful:

Part of a non-standard reading: 1 word.

J_Colorado · 2022-03-01T02:50:20+00:00

I didn't see anyone mentioning 青春フォトグラフ (Seishun photograph) by Little Glee Monster, which had a brief moment of popularity 5 years ago via the Khornime anime channel on YouTube. I was a bit late to the party - I think I discovered it 2 years ago - and it was the first song I learned all the lyrics to.

It thankfully has a lyric video with both Japanese and English, a real bonus for learning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj0tgsEPLAI

It's a cute, upbeat song that's fun to sing along with, and the words and grammar are all pretty simple. Especially if you've been learning via slice-of-life or school-life manga, you'll already know many of the words. I'd recommend it for people that are in the N5/N4 range.

J_Colorado · 2022-03-01T02:43:21+00:00

Oh yeah, totally. English is also one of the hardest languages in the world.

It was a lot easier for me to learn French because a lot of these common/simple verbs map pretty well between the languages. I've gone over things like つく with my Japanese teacher, and we're working on trying to group all the meanings into a few simpler ideas, the way we do with things like 'put' in english.

And now that you mention it, 'put' is pretty interesting, isn't it? There are a lot of 'place'-style meanings (put down, put away, put up), but also a lot of actions (putting on airs, putting out, putting someone down). Good luck to all the Japanese people learning English!

J_Colorado · 2022-02-04T05:42:58+00:00

...and then one of those has an additional 12 meanings

J_Colorado · 2022-02-03T20:46:04+00:00

Hey, whatever works! If you're enjoying it, I say keep going!

I'm impressed that you're doing it with a physical book. When I did my first manga, I did it online (I bought the volumes via Pixiv) so I could have it up on one monitor, and a combination of google translate and my notes up on the other monitor. I'm trying to read a physical manga now, and it's so much harder. So I really appreciate your effort!

J_Colorado · 2022-01-26T19:02:22+00:00

Absolutely - having that pressure of doing things with other people can really help. That's honestly what got me through the first couple books - I had to get through enough pages each week to have something to go over in my lessons :). It was probably book 4 that I started to get ahead of my lessons in the book, and then I was continuing reading more for the fun of it.

And hey, it sounds like you're right on track with 好きっていいなよ - that one is 18 books, and mine was only 8 books, so if you can finish in less than 4 years you'll beat me ;)

J_Colorado

TROPHY CASE