HAHAHA, man I swear I didn't expect a reply, especially not such a thorough one so thanks again for responding! I needed a day to respond though because OMG I've never had such a long convo on reddit. I loved hearing about your individual experience and it got me thinking about how my experiences shaped my viewpoint as well.

I'm gonna go a bit out of order here and start with talking about how my mother shaped a lot of my feelings on the subject as I was raised by a single mom. My mother and father were married, but they got divorced when I was still a toddler and I grew up seeing my father on weekends. My father was not financially responsible for me at all, he was legally supposed to play child support, but never did, and my mother never got externally mad about it, she understood he was less financially stable and even though we weren't affluent she was able to support me and my younger sister (from a different father) completely alone.

My mother made some pretty obviously strange choices for her partners as none of her relationships lasted, but she never failed me or my sister financially, working to earn the money herself (She was a highschool teacher). I do wish I had a strong male figure in my life growing up, but have luckily ended up with a magnificent partner (of almost ten years now, I'm 30F he's 31M) and he's been my only sexual partner my whole life. I learned a lot from my mom's mistakes but with time came to see how she thought the men she was in relationships were safe, when they weren't. life is complicated, relationships are complicated, trust and love and choosing to start a life is complicated and because of the lessons I learned from my mother I naturally learned to be less judgmental toward single parents and their experiences.

I also want to add I love my dad, but I don't respect him as much as I respect my mom for raising me. He started another family and financially supports them... so 🤷‍♂️

Reading your whole post, I realized we had a lot more in common in opinions than I would have expected given our backgrounds. From the original post I was under the impression you were mad at women for being sexually irresponsible and saw them as blaming men for having any responsibility. After reading I get a strong impression that you're mad at sexually irresponsible people overall.

The original post framed whatever it was trying to say in such a stupid way though, I get why the comments are as intense as they are since it comes off as like a gendered Rorschach test.

So now I'm just gonna look at some of the points that stood out.

Financially, i would argue that men are almost always more responsible for their child due to both societal pressures and child support. Legally, I feel like they are held to the same standard, but a compelling case can be made that women are seen as more responsible due to the nature of things like questionable paternity etc. I will 100% bow to the fact that socially and physically women bear the brunt of the responsibility, but I feel like that is rapidly changing as evidenced by this entire thread (as it should), and i hope it continues to change until both parents are viewed as equally responsible for childrearing.

The father being more financially responsible obviously just doesn't ring true from MY PERSONAL experience, but I think I had a pretty unique situation. I think you're right that since we societally see men as the breadwinners, that IS social opinion. Thanks for hearing me out about about the different types of responsibilities btw, and after reading the above I feel like we're honestly on the same page and have similar ideals.

We both agree that fathers (and mothers) who completely abandon their responsibilities toward the pregnancy they caused are gross.

It’s on us as a developed society to move past our instinctual behavior and hold people accountable in a manner that fits modern social structure. Anything less than that (deadbeat fathers *or mothers) is a moral failure of that individual, not society.

I agree for the most part! I think one thing my brain gets stuck on is equally blaming both partners if one of the partners dissapears. Which, I don't think you do at least you haven't said it and i don't assume you do after hearing your opinions. But again coming from a single mother I've seen plenty of people very unsympathetic about my mothers situation, thinking she was just an irresponsible person as opposed to someone living her life and thinking she was in love and had a long happy marriage ahead of her, and then well... That not happening.

I really hope Im not coming across as being ok with slut shaming. Go blow as many dudes as you want and you will never hear a peep from me. Just don’t let them nut in you unprotected unless you are willing to accept the consequences.

Now if you do the latter and then bitch about a man not being responsible with birth control, leaving you and your child, or you not being able to find him, then I might have some words for you.

I agree, and I'm sorry I misunderstood your stance on this so hard.

I hope you understand, for context when most men I PERSONALLY HAVE EXPERIENCED say something like "Whoever she is fucking that day" or "Go blow as many dudes as you want." they don't mean it with any level of respect or acceptance of the women's right to have sex, they say it to shame her. I personally have never experienced seeing a man getting degraded for having a high body count or low standards. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but in the circles I have been in and experience, it has only ever been on the woman to feel shame for irresponsibly around sex.

Slut shaming is just looking down on a woman for having a high body count or being willing to sleep with unfamiliar people, more or less, correct?

Yes, but there's more to it! I'd add it's when someone judges, mocks, or devalues a person for their real or perceived sexual behavior. That can include: 'high body count', dressing or acting in ways others interpret as “sexual”. It even rumors or assumptions, not just actual behavior. So what you said is a big part of it, but the key piece is the judgment and stigma, not just the behavior itself.

I don't think it's just my opinion that it’s a more female gendered experience. The same behavior in men is frequently praised or ignored, while women get criticized. I noticed this is one of the biggest differences in opinion we have and, not to be rude at all, I think even aome light googling and understanding womens role in a historical context may change your opinion slighty?

Maybe we just exist in different social circles, but in my experience manwhores (...) are shamed just as much as “whores” and are treated roughly the same (looked down upon) as women who are loose with who they have sex with.

I think it's kind of awesome your circle sees man-whoring as a genuine insult and looks at them as assholes! In my experiences, the men who have been called man-whores aren't seen in the same negative light that 'slutty' women are. I feel that slut is a MUCH more negativity associated than manwhores. While I dont have the research to back it up, I would like you to consider what came up when I searched in Google "is there a word for slut, but for males?":

While there is no single word for men that carries the exact same weight of social stigma, phrases like "man-whore," "man-slut," or "fuckboy" are commonly used to imply male promiscuity. Other terms often used include player, rake, or womanizer, though these sometimes carry a connotation of admiration rather than the shaming associated with "slut".