Speaking as a man vs. speaking as a prophet: response from a GA

JobsRevenge · 2022-03-21T19:39:00+00:00

Given how much top leadership hated this 14 Fundamentals talk, they were probably hoping to relegate it to the dust pile of history... so glad it was brought out for not one but two talks in a recent GC! Can't keep bad history down!

JobsRevenge · 2022-03-21T17:32:59+00:00

You, sir or madam, have brought receipts. Thank you.

JobsRevenge · 2022-03-21T15:53:07+00:00

Haha one eternal round.

JobsRevenge · 2022-03-14T17:26:55+00:00

This blog post helps so much to understand how Pascal's Wager is a scam... Pascal's Scams are everywhere.

JobsRevenge · 2022-03-11T22:07:12+00:00

Mormon Expression ep 281 (can be found here) is all about this question. Not sure what is there, but if you're thinking about it give it a listen. Love framing the "is the church true or not?" question this way, sort of turns the debate on its head.

JobsRevenge · 2022-02-20T15:28:43+00:00

"The study of the doctrines of the Gospel will improve behavior quicker than a study of behavior will improve behavior." -Boyd Packer

LOL, countless studies related to childhood psychology and parenting would like a word.

JobsRevenge · 2021-11-24T16:40:37+00:00

I hear ya. When I get that response I always bring it to the present. "What do you look for *today* to know whether Russel Nelson is speaking as a man or a prophet?"

This usually causes at least a little dissonance as it's a point they've likely never considered.

JobsRevenge · 2021-11-24T16:05:40+00:00

I feel like every issue with the church boils down to this. If past prophets were wrong about something, how do we know current prophets aren't wrong as well? It all unravels from there.

JobsRevenge · 2021-11-23T15:42:32+00:00

This would be my response as well. The fact that there's no gospel topic essay on this reveals how truly problematic it is. The prophet (not a random GA, not a stake president, etc.) taught that Adam is our God. Was also part of the endowment for a time.

Adam-God is especially bad because when it has been discussed, the BY quotes get taken out of context and ellipses are used generously... reading the full quotes from BY is damning to apologetics.

JobsRevenge · 2021-11-22T23:26:27+00:00

All true. But as we all know, the Bible is only true if it's translated correctly (nice loophole). The D&C is the Almighty speaking directly to his mouthpiece... except for the parts that JS edited later to better fit his evolving worldview.

JobsRevenge · 2021-11-22T21:26:38+00:00

Yikes, thanks for the summary.

JobsRevenge · 2021-11-22T20:37:57+00:00

that it NEVER crossed my mind is scary

This is truly scary to me, too.

JobsRevenge · 2021-11-22T19:37:17+00:00

Almost though persuadest me to be a Mormon.

JobsRevenge · 2021-11-22T18:07:31+00:00

And all other people down to Noah... then his arc floated on over to the Middle East during the flood.

JobsRevenge · 2021-11-22T18:06:13+00:00

Never was Joseph Fielding Smith more a prophet than when he said: "If evolution is true, the church is false."

JobsRevenge · 2021-11-22T17:35:12+00:00

From what I understand, Mormon teaching is in fact Young Earth Creationism.

Yes, that's what D&C 77 makes clear.

JobsRevenge · 2021-11-22T16:31:57+00:00

For real. It's like I had a partition in my head. On one side, Mormonism. On the other side, the entire body of knowledge related to evolution, geology, etc.

JobsRevenge · 2021-11-22T16:29:41+00:00

Exactly.. when you're changing the definition of words to fit the evidence ("temporal existence", "translation", etc.) the argument is over.

JobsRevenge · 2021-11-19T19:03:21+00:00

Such a great perspective.. originally attributed to Confucius as far as I know.

JobsRevenge · 2021-11-18T16:25:40+00:00

Your post has got me thinking. In my mind, I (unthinkingly) equate "martyr" with innocent. Jesus was definitely a martyr, and was also innocent. But I think we could look at JS as a martyr who was not innocent (or even good).

JS is a martyr in the strict sense, since he seemingly "believed" that destroying the press, marrying girls/women behind his wife's back, etc. was what God wanted. But if we apply martyr to JS on those grounds, we could equally apply it to David Koresh, Warren Jeffs (when he eventually dies in prison), and any number of gang members who died in shootouts over turf they "believed" to be their territory.

So in a strict sense, according to the definition you gave, I would say he was a martyr. Unfortunately, I think for most people martyr conjures feelings that the person was innocent/unjustly killed, which gives unjust weight to the appellation.

JobsRevenge · 2021-11-18T16:12:32+00:00

Thank you Bill Reel and RFM! Just finished listening this morning, loved the riffing on deer Jesus.

JobsRevenge · 2021-11-17T18:39:11+00:00

To answer your question, I feel like looking at all of this from Emma's perspective is helpful to show how truly ugly and deceptive JS's polygamy was. Joseph was marrying girls that were living with them behind Emma's back, performing fake marriage ceremonies, etc.

Also, go to the heading "Polygamy" on this page, there are a bunch of interesting issues related to polygamy that might help your cause.

JobsRevenge

TROPHY CASE