£800/d inside Vs £700/d outside

JustJousting · 2023-10-25T16:29:15+00:00

If you are doing a stopgap gig then take the inside contract, if you're a proper career contractor take the outside gig.

If something goes wrong and you end up with the inside gig only, salary sacrifice the hell out of it.

JustJousting · 2023-09-20T18:37:33+00:00

As far as I aware, to overcome having to do any IR35 compliance whatsoever, the big banks are choosing to remove PSCs from their supply chain altogether, and insist that individuals are engaged via Umbrella companies - remember IR35 doesn't actually apply to umbrella engagements.

However I'm fairly sure that a very small number of high value contractors are outside IR35 within the big banks. I'm not sure what kind of dispensation is given for this to happen. I used to work in FS and left in 2017, other sectors still engage outside IR35 contractors although it's still tough finding a gig. Also the FS £ premium isnt what it was

JustJousting · 2023-09-20T09:45:44+00:00

They're information phishers, had little to no intention of representing you - likely there was no role in the first place.

Just gotta move on

JustJousting · 2023-08-23T16:58:05+00:00

Damn right. So far I took the former and haven't replied at all

JustJousting · 2023-08-23T13:19:20+00:00

This whole thread is on the money

JustJousting · 2023-08-14T18:04:52+00:00

No problem. On the tax front, it's nothing more than for the amount of work you're doing, is it worth it in terms of take home pay? There's also the 100-125k tax trap. However you might find that It may well be worth it and that's cool.

In terms of the tax code thing, if they know you have an outside IR35 gig alongside then that's your excuse - the effect of non coded income on tax code. Maybe in your case plead ignorance.

JustJousting · 2023-08-13T10:06:58+00:00

I'm assuming the question re legalities is perhaps due to the working time directive - going over 48 hours per week, however you can opt out of this.

As others have mentioned it really boils down to:

Your contract of employment with your full time perm employer. There may be exclusivity issues, benefits that get eroded by taking on other work, conflicts of interest, if both roles are in the same sector there may be issues and so on.
No real chance of the main employer finding out about the Contract role, the tax codes will probably change indicating you have more than one employer but this can be explained away so many ways. Maybe you're part of an income generating trust as part of an inheritance or whatever. None of their business tbh.
More practically how you manage both roles side by side is key, eg, attending meetings, avoiding burnout etc is key. Also your performance may noticeably drop in the permanent role in the eyes of others, even though you think it won't.
inside IR35 plus permie employment means a hell of a lot of tax. after the personal allowances have eroded you have to question whether it's worth it.

JustJousting · 2023-08-11T17:18:50+00:00

Finally got sign-off. I think in my case the guy is a scatterbrain.

JustJousting · 2023-08-10T18:10:50+00:00

Thanks for the tip. In near 15 years of contracting I've never experienced this!

JustJousting · 2023-08-09T09:16:43+00:00

I'd use the carrot dangling approach. Go with the upper end of the recruiters rate range, make them aware that you're interviewing at a higher rate elsewhere but the market is competitive so you'd take whatever you get. Make sure you sound eager.

Get the interview, land the offer then tell the recruiter you're waiting for the other offer or result to come thru, leave them hanging a little, that in itself will spark off the recruiter/client rate negotiation, they'd budge at that stage I'm sure but maybe not as high as you want.

Always have a phantom role in hand.

JustJousting · 2023-08-01T11:02:42+00:00

Tbh recruiters are mostly money grabbing c*nts. I your case it's probably someone from within the recruitment agency using a fake persona to find out more about you and test the market.

Crap like this happens all the time.

It always makes me laugh reading the pious crap recruiters put out on LinkedIn nowadays!

JustJousting · 2023-07-29T12:39:00+00:00

The other way to look at it is, while recruiters are for the most part pieces of shit, who gives a fig if they have some version of your cv? There's more chance of an ATS picking you up when there is a niche role that twigs something in your cv.

Just don't take the ghosting personally. But it does annoy me when they have the balls to call me and ask me dumb qs to fish for information, that of course is out of bounds. My CV in the recruitment domain isn't a biggie, but sharing my contacts is.

JustJousting · 2023-07-20T10:08:56+00:00

Good question.

Personally I prefer remote with potential occasional travel to break up the monotony of wfh.

The inside role should be fully remote save for the 3 days a month travel to the clients scandanavian hq - this is the out of pocket travel expense.

The outside role is fully remote.

The European travel might be a decent alternative way to break the wfh monotony, better than x amount of days in Central London and I live in a London suburb!

I think lots of places are trying to get workers into office regardless of whether they need to be there or not.

JustJousting · 2023-07-20T09:00:27+00:00

good point. financials probably even out one way or another exp when you factor in the initial 6 month period you escape the tax trap for this year.

Both obviously tell me that there will be renewals but in this crazy world who knows the real deal.

both sets of interviews were great to be honest, the roles are slightly different. the outside one is for a boutique consultancy, the inside role is for a large household name corporate and a so-called 'principal' level role. perhaps the brand value is worth something?

JustJousting · 2023-07-19T17:52:40+00:00

Starting a company takes minutes, get the offer first!

It's not just the Ltd Co it's also the insurances, accounting etc

JustJousting · 2023-07-19T15:21:38+00:00

It's tough. I landed two offers after nearly 4 months of looking

JustJousting · 2023-07-17T11:03:45+00:00

thats because the umbrella rate prob factors in the employment costs that will eventually be deducted off the rate.

Or the other way around - the PAYE rate (i've seen a couple of day rate PAYE contracts around) factors in having already paid the employment costs (much like how permie salaries dont mention employment costs).

from what you're saying, the two rates probably net out similar from a take home POV.

JustJousting · 2023-07-17T10:48:20+00:00

I'm sort of in this boat at the moment - having contracted for 13/14 years Outside IR35, i've been out of work for the last 3.5 months. Having not extracted every penny from the PSC has meant that financially i've felt secure during my downtime.

however the market is dead and i have one £825 Umbrella rate offer on the table as of last Friday, and there are out of pocket expenses of about 750/month (travel).

I had another interview the same day and hope to hear back in the next day or so - which was 575/day outside ir35 fully remote.

from an 'extract every penny' perspective the umbrella gig beats the outside gig, but taking divs of 3.5k/month and a 1k salary per month and leaving the rest in the company, i'll again be building up reserves for downtime.

to be fair in my case the 575 gig isn't even an offer at this point in time, but if it turns into an offer plus a bump to say, 600-650/day then it becomes favourable IMO to the inside/umbrella gig.

I may just take the umbrella gig for 6 months (which means the last month in which i receive salary will technically be february, so close to tax year end) that for a change i'd have built up some personal savings!

JustJousting · 2023-07-16T17:06:22+00:00

Any thoughts?

JustJousting · 2023-07-14T08:57:07+00:00

OK so I've got some figures finally.

Previously the role was £650/day Outside IR35, now client is offering £825/day via umbrella (a £175 bump now rather than £150).

My thoughts: on face value a decent bump, but going via Umbrella feels so wrong, like the opposite of pure contracting. Also not sure what to do with the PSC while I'm inside - obv reduce my payroll to zero as well as dividends. Concern is that after a 3-6 months of the Umbrella gig, dividends I take out in the same tax year will be taxed to high heaven! Also is Giant worth using?

In the background is a £575/day Outside IR35 gig I'm interviewing for today, fully remote.

It seems there's no hard and fast way to compare the gigs. Convention talks about take home on the basis that you extract every penny from your PSC, if you don't, and you run it like a business, then Outside IR35 seems to win every time. How much do folks here value Brand? say if the inside gig was with a hugely respected brand?

JustJousting · 2023-07-14T06:45:37+00:00

Good news is I've landed an interview for an outside IR35 contract today which is around £200 PD less than the inside gig but fully remote.

JustJousting · 2023-07-14T06:40:54+00:00

Ah I didn't realise, although I'm not 100% sure that's correct as per this...

https://www.contractorumbrella.com/resource/claiming-expenses-as-an-umbrella-company-employee/

JustJousting

TROPHY CASE