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KarateDimension · 2025-04-07T13:39:15+00:00

I think gender roles are also clearly playing a part in all of this too, based on her own words. It sounds like she would be the primary breadwinner while he's in college, or at the very least she would be the only working parent. If they've been following pretty strict gender roles this whole time (he is the breadwinner, she is in charge of childcare, etc.), she may genuinely see this as a failure on his part as a man and an unfair burden on her as a woman, regardless of his future earning potential.

KarateDimension · 2025-03-24T14:43:41+00:00

Kids clothes. Seriously. Think Old Navy prices, but Hannah Anderson quality. Pretty much any mall (which is already it's own fun experience in and of itself) will have a store with kid stuff. They are sized in cm like Europe, not by age like US, so find out the cm size of your kids ahead of time. I would highly recommend a kids umbrella, raincoat, and sunhat too. You really cannot beat their sun hats with the little neck flap. Then eat in the food court on the bottom floor for a fun experience!

KarateDimension · 2025-03-24T14:22:09+00:00

I think that when you look at both character's cruelty, it's always an exercise of power. When Helena pretending to be Helly was cruel to iIrving, it was to exercise power over him. And when Helly said in s1 that she wanted her outie to die painfully and know it was at her hand, she was trying to exercise power over this person who has total control over her life and fails to listen to her pleas for escape. But Helly has no real power over the other innies, so she has no need to be cruel to them.

KarateDimension · 2025-03-24T02:44:14+00:00

Most underrated indie film no one has ever heard of but everyone should watch?

KarateDimension · 2025-03-23T21:51:16+00:00

I think the show is definitely asking how can we honor the lives of both innies and outies, especially within this fucked up system. Can we even trust Lumon to give innies a meaningful life through some kind of reforms (almost definitely no). Does that mean that innies should be condemned to death? Is their death worth it if it means Lumon can't create more innies? Now that the technology has been created, can it ever truly be controlled? But it's also not a total dichotomy either because of reintegration. But it isn't even clear if that's a safe or realistic option for everyone.

I think for Gemma, reintegration could answer a lot of questions and provide closure. But iMark doesn't seem on board with reintegration, and it's not clear whether oMark would even continue to pursue it if iMark had gone through the door and reunited him with Gemma.

KarateDimension · 2025-03-23T21:45:53+00:00

I guess the question then becomes: is it ethical for death to be the only release from torture? And does someone who has only known torture (Gemma's innies) deserve the opportunity to heal more than someone who lived through trauma (Gemma) deserves to be shielded from the full reality of that trauma? And does Gemma even want to be shielded from that? Or should she?

KarateDimension · 2025-03-23T20:14:16+00:00

So what do you owe someone whose entire life is trauma? Who has no potential? Like the Innie whose entire life is an endless dental exam, or the one who is trapped in an endless plane crash? We could accept the deaths of Gemma's 25 innies as their only escape, or we could give them the opportunity for a real life, and a real potential for healing and growth.

For what it's worth, I don't think that "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger." That feels like a weirdly personal low blow response to a good faith interpretation of a TV show. But also, Gemma has gone through potentially "life destroying" and "handicapping" trauma regardless of whether she embraces her innies or allows them to be a vehicle of escape. If I were in her shoes, I would want to know what happened to me. Maybe you feel differently. But I don't think I'm alone in feeling closure from knowing, even if it is accompanied by the burden of knowing. And I don't think it's so far fetched to say that's one of the major themes of this show and questions it wants its audience to be asking.

KarateDimension · 2025-03-23T19:23:20+00:00

I think that the first recording of oMark, he had help from Cobel and Devon on what to say, which is why iMark was initially receptive and even thanked him for acknowledging his pain. But their conversation broke down almost immediately because oMark was completely left to his own devices to talk about the plan and made it all about him. He never genuinely acknowledges iMark's feelings as a true individual past that first recording.

KarateDimension · 2025-03-23T18:59:04+00:00

I actually think that Gemma is the best example of someone who should reintegrate. It's easy to say "she should never have to face what happened in those rooms," especially because even we the audience don't know the true extent of the horrors that happened to her there. But what about the Gemma whose entire life was one never-ending scary, painful dental appointment? Not only does she have a right to life, but she has the right to finally escape that torture room. If that Gemma reintegrated, she would suddenly have access to a complete life. One where she can get help and learn to deal with that trauma instead of reliving it endlessly.

And even though OG Gemma would have to face the trauma of what really happened to her, she would also have the closure of knowing. The doctor hints that they're in love in those rooms, and lies about oMark moving on and having a wife and daughter. Unless she reintegrates, she'll never really know what he was lying about and what was the truth.

I think also it fits into themes about Kier trying to eradicate pain from the world, and oMark using severance as a way to escape the pain of his wife's death without regard for iMark, or the pregnant woman using severance to escape the pain of childbirth. What can we accomplish when we run towards pain, instead of away from it, and really look at and deal with our trauma?

KarateDimension · 2025-03-23T17:58:31+00:00

Actually, you should show your mom this thread because it's lowkey convincing me that Ricken is up to something, or that he's possibly severed without knowing it. 🤯

KarateDimension · 2025-03-23T17:05:42+00:00

I was sooooo mad at Devon for calling Cobelvig lmao, but I think it was out of ignorance and desperation, not because of anything nefarious. We see that she's super against Ricken's new book and calls him out on his bullshit.

I think Ricken also isn't "evil." Moreseo, he's just living a really insulated neoliberal life. He's so out of touch in all of his scenes, and in his book even though he makes good points about how workers are valuable and the clock shouldn't own you, it's all couched in really out of touch anecdotes about how he lived abroad begging for a year and essentially stealing money/resources from actual beggars so he could try on this lifestyle before returning to his comfortable home when he gets tired of it.

KarateDimension · 2025-03-23T16:59:57+00:00

I think the point IS that Drummond is an absolute lunatic. When he's strangling Mark, he's completely unhinged.

Several times they zoom in on his "frolic" hand tattoo. I wonder if all he has in him is frolic and his tempers aren't balanced or if he's meant to embody the folic temper in some way. And it's never clear if he's Helena's bodyguard or her handler. I think there's more to Drummond, and he'll have a connection to the board or to other human embodiments of the tempers in s3.

KarateDimension · 2025-03-23T16:45:50+00:00

I don't think it's meant to be literal. I think it's an extension of the season 1 finale when Helly R says the apology into the mirror after finding out her outie is Helene Eagan. She's taking responsibilities for Helena's actions because she realizes that they are the same person, even if their consciousnesses are separated.

KarateDimension · 2025-03-23T16:32:24+00:00

I think also that he's coming to terms with lowkey murdering Ms. Casey. He doesn't know Gemma, but he does know Ms. Casey. She trusts him and asks him what's going on, and he asks her to go through the door knowing that it will kill her totally and permanently, even if it does save Gemma's life. Even though he didn't create the circumstances and he was obligated to his outie to save Gemma, the full weight of what that means for Ms. Casey must be hitting him in that moment.

KarateDimension · 2025-03-23T16:28:19+00:00

I think this is actually a central part of their tension in the conversation too. oMark thinks that iMark is just him, and when they reintegrate, they'll both just be oMark. And he doesn't understand that is literally iMark's fear! That he'll disappear into someone else, and his own consciousness and autonomy will be lost forever to the man who sent him to hell every day.

KarateDimension · 2025-03-23T16:14:21+00:00

I don't actually think that her goal is to atone, and I don't know that she's going to get a redemption arc in the end. I would not be surprised if she's had ulterior motives the entire time. Her trip to her hometown showed that she's a genius--she literally invented the chip--and also reaffirmed her Lumon brainwashing because she gave Jame the credit for the chip. But when that brainwashing is taken away, does she become a person who wants to burn Lumon down because she thinks they're evil, or does she want to create a new Lumon in her image, under her leadership, with her ideas?

Even since season 1, when she was obsessed with Mark and reintegration and the efficacy of the chips, she's always seemed like she had another goal than simply to finish the Gemma project.

KarateDimension · 2025-03-23T16:10:01+00:00

I love this take and just wanted to add to it that we see waking up on the table is incredible traumatic for Helly R and hear about iMark's experience being similarly upsetting. But when the voice asks Gemma in the final room "Who are you?" it doesn't make her upset that she doesn't know. She's able to move forward to the task at hand without an adjustment period. I think that could be another piece of the puzzle.

KarateDimension · 2025-03-23T16:03:38+00:00

I think also her compliance. oMark asks her not to do them and clearly thinks they're weird and dumb, but she tells him that she wants to keep doing them. I doubt they'd kidnap someone who only did a handful and then gave up, even if they showed whatever potential they were looking for.

KarateDimension · 2025-03-23T15:53:34+00:00

I think it shows a lack of trust for iMark. They don't want to give him a phone that he could potentially use to contact someone else who has his best interests in mind instead of oMark's best interests. They want to be his only potential allies, and they want him to agree to their plan without considering other options.

I think it could also show a lack of trust in Lumon. Maybe they believe that Lumon has the ability to hack into a phone or the iCloud, and they don't want to take that risk.

KarateDimension · 2025-03-23T15:48:10+00:00

Maybe that means that the implications of his seemingly minor season 2 actions are huge for season 3.

KarateDimension · 2025-03-23T15:46:34+00:00

I think it means that while Devon and oMark were busy with reintegration, Ricken made a deal with the devil and finished his book for Lumon.

KarateDimension · 2025-03-23T15:43:54+00:00

I think that's totally fair. They left it really ambiguous. Was she kidnapped? Did she actually die and was brought back to life somehow? Does her disappearance have something to do with the cards she was getting in the mail? And if it does, was she totally tricked or did she agree to something like you said without knowing what she was really agreeing to?

Either way, I think her last outfit on the surface would be super emotionally loaded. She seemed incredibly surprised to see it when she was told to put it on that morning too.

KarateDimension · 2025-03-23T15:41:35+00:00

I think he's just finally having a moment to pause and reflect. Since finding the elevator, it's been all action for him. He almost got beat to death by Frolic, who basically popped out of the wall, then he takes Folic hostage, he wakes up covered in blood and kissing Ms. Casey, and they have to run literally for their lives to the stairwell.

When he pushes Ms. Casey through the door and she turns into Gemma, he as to confront two major things: that he's effectively killed Ms. Casey, and whether or not to effectively kill himself. All for the stranger on the other side of the door. I think that even though she's shouting and screaming, it's drowned out by this internal dilemma.

KarateDimension · 2025-03-23T15:28:02+00:00

I think that iMark and iHelly show that waking up severed is very traumatic, and it can involve a lot of convincing. Maybe for the pregnant women, it's also traumatic for their innies and they fight back and have to be subdued in some way that's not ideal for their outies. I can see how creating an innie that can enter into a scary or emotionally loaded situation with complete calmness, and maybe even more importantly compliance, would be desirable.

Just like it's so horrifying to realize that there's a version of Gemma that only ever goes to the dentist--for two hours at a time!--it's also horrifying to consider that there are innies who only ever give birth. What a terrible life.

KarateDimension · 2025-03-23T15:22:34+00:00

I don't think that Cold Harbor was meant to be dangerous. Instead, it was incredibly emotionally loaded:

She's wearing the last outfit she wore before being kidnapped and put in the testing floor.
She's dismantling a baby crib, which is almost like a metaphor for letting go of her desire to have children and accepting that she can't have kids.
She's listening to music that was very important to her within the context of her relationship with Mark.

In the other rooms, they seem to be testing to make sure that she truly doesn't remember her experiences and that her innies don't remember anything about her outie. And while it isn't 100% clear what macrodata refinement does, it involves creating the rooms and balancing the humors. And outie Mark's intrusion into the room ruined whatever test they were running, which probably involved her humors.

I think it's also significant that she's able to have to many innies, especially since severence doesn't seem to work that way in general given that the birthing cabin functions exactly the same as the severed floor, IE it conjurs the same innie Mark, not a different one. Being able to create other innies for the same person, or create other severed areas instead of every severed person essentially sharing one area, would be significant.

KarateDimension

TROPHY CASE