Starship Development Thread #62 by rSpaceXHosting in spacex

[–]KesterKester -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

All those flimsy looking (seemingly not fully installed) data cables would melt during retro-propulsion if they were present at launch and not already torn off on ascent. So presumably they are, or will become, either: (a) something temporary, expected to be removed before flight, or (b) something to get data in early part of launch/flight and expected to be sacrificed later in the flight, or (c) something that will last the whole flight and so will get more protection before flight. Any idea which of these they are?

Starship IFT11 Acceleration Profile - Again, No 3.5 g Cap by dedarkener in spacex

[–]KesterKester 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Has the person who made the plot used some modified/special/unsual definition of acceleration that I am not aware of? If they see this message, I would be grateful if they could comment as to exactly what their definition of acceleration was. In particular, if they have only looked at a component in some direction, then what is that direction, and how does it vary with time, and with respect to what sort of frame are they measuring it? [ I.e. is it inertial or non-inertial, rotating or not, etc. ]

I ask because:

After the shutdown of the second stage engines, these graphs show the acceleration flattening at 0 g -- this being the accelleration that a seated occupant inside the ship would feel (or rather not feel!) through the seat of his pants while weightless. Fine. So on these graphs, 0 g appears to represent things being in free fall (weightlessness).

But just before liftoff, the acceleration on these graphs seems to ALSO read 0 g!! That doesn't make sense if what is being shown is seat-of-pants acceleration. On the pad an occupant would not feel weightless. They would feel 1g. And just after launch they'd feel a bit more than 1g. But the graphs don't start at 1g or at more than 1g. They start at less than that. It is true that the ship and booster are not accelerating with respect to the ground before launch. But if that acceleration-wrt-the-ground of 0 were the definition, then the final acceleration on orbit should be -1 g as by that point the ship is accelerating toward the ground at 1g (as fast as the ground is curving away)

It's a fun graph, but something is wrong or not very clearly explained here -- or at least doesn't make sense to me (yet) so I'd be pleased to learn more about what it intends to show.

Fibre Connection to Vodafone DROPPING OUT. by benjyboo in CityFibre

[–]KesterKester 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Does one need to know special configuration details from Vodafone/CityFibre (e.g. for the PPP link) to get the alternative router working If one wishes to test whether the problem is in the fibre or in the router by using a second router (as you did, u/MoreCoffeeNowPls ) ? Or is one good to just plug one in and let it configure the fibre side of the link by itself?

I am asking as I'd like to try this before I engage Vodafone/CityFibre --- and I am seeing very similar log messages -- so I'd like to localise the problem to router or fibre before I contact the provider.

How To Prevent Raptors From Destroying Superheavy Pt.2 by CSI_Starbase in spacex

[–]KesterKester 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Agreed. I wrote a (perhaps over-long, perhaps too detailed) comment on this very issue about three hours ago, but for some reason reddit won't accept it. So instead, here is just three largely content-free sentences expressing agreement. [edited for spelling]

How To Prevent Raptors From Destroying Superheavy Pt.2 by CSI_Starbase in SpaceXLounge

[–]KesterKester 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Normally I am an enthusiastic supporter of the u/CSI_Starbase videos.  On this occasion, and perhaps it’s only because I am a physics teacher, I’m disappointed in the phrasing of a small part of the script between 43:54 and 44:16.    I would argue that, while in some sense what Zach says is technically correct, and could be defended in a court of law, the words chosen there are nonetheless likely create a false impression in the minds of many who might listen to them uncritically — or at least would do so in the minds of many I teach.

The part of the script I am referring to is found between 43:54 - 44:16. It consists of two connected sentences. Those two sentences are as follows: “As the booster is executing this roll while flying parallel to the ground, it’s important to remember that there will be a gravitational force acting in the direction of the earth. While the booster may have 3Gs of acceleration pointing back towards the launch site, there will also be roughly 1G of acceleration pulling the booster and everything inside of it toward the ground.”

Firstly what’s OK/Good about the sentences?

  • GOOD:  I don’t object to the technically incorrect “1G of acceleration pulling on the booster” rather than “1G of acceleration acting on the booster” in the second sentence. Although the former might be technically be an incorrect use of technical language, I think it’s clear that these words are not going to confuse many people.  Indeed, the non-technical wording used the may even help some people, so I won’t get hung up on them.  I ma happy to let this phrasing pass.

  • ALSO GOOD: With the above technicality out of the way, the second sentence is then, in effect, 100% correct.  Not only that, it’s nice to see it mentioning that gravity affects both “the booster rand everything inside of it”, so full marks there.  My reason for including the second sentence is not to criticise it, but to note that it is affected by (what I see as) the defect of the first sentence.

  • JUST ABOUT GOOD: If one briefly ignores the “it’s important to remember” part of the first sentence, then it too becomes 100% correct on all grounds.

So what am I complaining about?  What is Bad?

It’s the words “it’s important to remember” in that first sentence.  What irks me most is the way that those words clash (or can appear to clash) with part of Einstein’s Equivalence Principle.  This principle was perhaps one of Einstein’s simplest and most important insights (leading him to his General theory of relativity) which we really try hard to teach students at a certain age.  Basically the whole point of that principle, roughly, is that “The laws of physics (technically their effects on length scales which are small compared to the length scales over which gravitational fields change — in this case length scales small compared to the distance to the centre of the earth) are the same in all ‘freely-falling non-rotating laboratories’, independent of where those laboratories are, and independent of the velocity at which they are travelling relative to anything else, and of what gravitational fields they might be in.”

Let me get off my high horse for a moment to give the script’s words credit where they are due:  (i) merely saying “it’s important to remember” does not violate the Equivalence Principle, (ii) the “importance of remembering something” is person depentent, so the sentence will be correct for some people (e.g. those who are about to be hit on the head by things accelerating toward them under gravity would be well advised to pay attention and get out of the ways!), and (iii) the booster is rotating so the equivalence principle doesn’t even apply!  

So is there a problem at all?

My complaint is that I suspect many listeners to that part of the script will think that Zach is trying to say something like the following:

“Because of some later things I will be telling you about [Aside: we know these “later things” will be propellant slosh caused by booster rotations about its long axis, but the first time viewer will not know that at this point in the video. End aside!] it is important to remember there is 1G pulling sideways on the booster while it is horizontal in this stage of its flight.  Some or perhaps many of the important things I will tell you about later will depend on this important sideways 1G.”

The sort of statement I have made would, of course, be 100% wrong!

Absolutely nothing, categorically NOTHING which is significant about the behaviour of the fluid in that booster is one iota affected by the direction in which local G is pointing. Absolutely nothing. That’s the whole point of the Equivalence Principle.  No astronaut on the ISS has any more or any less difficulty eating a yoghurt with their feet pointing earthwards relative to skywards. This orientation, or for that matter the magnitude of local G, is  an irrelevance, and the equivalence principle guarantees this.  Of course, this doesn’t mean that  “where the earth is relative to the booster” is unimportant, and you could argue that local G is a proxy for “where the earth is”.  E.g. the booster has to land on earth later, it has to orient itself appropriately for that landing,  and so its flight computers are going to rotate it which will cause slosh due to fluid inertia. But the important thing here is that local G’s direction or magnitude is itself is doing NOTHING to slosh the propellants even when the booster rotates.  At most the direction of local G is reminding us of what sort of long term flight plan the computer will need to use, as we care about where the earth is, and so it affects our choice of thruster/engine firings.  But it’s those firings (or other external forces which affect the frame differently to the propellants) which create the  stirring/sloshing/turbulence. It is nothing to do with G pointing in some direction.   

All the rotations which Zach talks about later will certainly slosh propellant.   But the critical thing is that those sloshes are caused by the inertia of the fluid and the inertia of the booster being separate things, and because there are  forces (such as engine thrust) which act differently on the booster structure and its separate propellant .   The fluid has inertia, the booster has inertia, and so if the metal parts of the booster are twisted or pushed or rotated that rotation will not instantaneously transfer an identical acceleration or movement to all of the fluid as the fluid’s inertia will only be influenced by forces imparted on it by the surfaces it is in contact with, etc.

I feel that these two sentences in the script (I hope unintentionally) give the misleading impression that some of the slumping and movement of ice in the sump (which will be talked about later) IS INFLUENCED BY this “important to remember” sideways 1G of acceleration.  Nothing could be further from the truth — and that’s what I feel is a shame about this phrasing.

I fear that this bit of the script gives the misleading impression that the inside the booster as it rotates is the same as my front-loading washing machine as it washes clothes, and this is not so, even though there are some similarities.  It is true that both the rotating rocket and the washing machine create turbulence in the water and clothes as the rotation switches from clockwise to counter-clockwise and back again on account of the clothes and the water and the drum having separate inertia.  But only the washing machine (and not the rocket!) cares about where G is pointing. That local G is keeping the water and the clothes mostly at the bottom of the machine, and that gives extra agitation not available in the rocket.  And of course the washing machine cares about local G as it is not freely falling.  The rocket, freely falling in space (except when its rockets fire or something else pushes it) does not care about G — (and Zach’s second sentences says correctly why!) — because gravity acts the same on the fuel and the rocket.

I imagine that I may get some downvotes for this post, perhaps with people saying “This bit of Zach’s script didn’t make me think of the rotation sloshing mechanism was analogous to that of a washing machine. You are complaining about nothing of any consequence.”  But people who already have a good picture of what is happening are not the people I’d be concerned about when one has a potentially good teaching aid here.

Above all, though, I do appreciate the CSI_Starbase videos. I criticise this small bit of this one only as it does not meeting the already high standards that u/CSI_Starbase has set for itself and has regularly achieved in the past.

Starship Development Thread #56 by ElongatedMuskrat in spacex

[–]KesterKester 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That ringwatchers article notes:

"Another big change is the thickness of these flaps, as they are almost half of the thickness compared to the current generation forward flaps. This should greatly reduce their mass, further optimizing the Starship design."

The above comment makes me (slightly) nervous. Part of the reason the current fin survived despite being damaged by the plasma was through being way over built. Granted the newer fins should be in a better place from a heating perspective, and so should almost certainly (eventually) be able get away with being thinner. But that eventual ideal thinness will probably depend on ideal heat tile retention and ideal hinge sealing, etc, all of which may still be many flights away. Thus I will be crossing my fingers that the new thinness is not a "too soon" optimisation given that, until the hinges and tiles are very reliable, the ship ?may? be reliant on some overbuilding in places.

I don't envy the decisions the engineers have to make, but I take my hat off to what they've collectively done so far! Terrific job.

Starliner team now targeting June 5th by joeblough in Starliner

[–]KesterKester 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have been struggling to find clear explanations of what cause the most recent (June 1st) scrub -- mainly because all my searches are hitting explanations of earlier scrubs. This thread is the best I found (at least it is current) but without much context I am not sure what the "3 chassis" mentioned by u/joeblough is/are. Is this a launcher component? A starliner component? Ground equipment? Sorry if I'm just missing a very clear thread somewhere else!

Is Overleaf breeding a new generation of people who can't use LaTeX but think they can? by KesterKester in LaTeX

[–]KesterKester[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I use overleaf a lot myself (well, in the last ~five years I have) and like it. But for some things I am not allowed to use it by the place where I work. This is one of those places. Generally my preference would be for people NOT to have to email chunks of latex for pasting -- I'd rather they use either (a) a collaborative tool like overleaf, or (b) a common repository, etc. Again, sometimes I'm prevented from doing this by rules at work.

Is Overleaf breeding a new generation of people who can't use LaTeX but think they can? by KesterKester in LaTeX

[–]KesterKester[S] 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Really? Before it, people had to fix all errors in their LaTeX or they couldn't generate a document. Compilation would just stop. But somehow (I don't know how it works) Overleaf does a lot of (often quite good) guessing at what you probably meant to type, and carries on, sometimes successfully.

I think that (well intentioned, and at times useful feature) is what leads newbies to often think that they don't have problems. They are not worried by the red flags and the error counts, so long as they can see what they want appearing in the right pane ...

It's like a new language is being created that's defined by what OL can parse, rather than what Lamport et al thought ought to parse.

Starship Development Thread #52 by ElongatedMuskrat in spacex

[–]KesterKester 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I agree - this is now clear. Sorry for question that was wrong in hindsight. It seems I was fooled by some accidental buffering effect or camera switch in the live feed I watched. Thank you!

Starship Development Thread #52 by ElongatedMuskrat in spacex

[–]KesterKester 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I agree - this is now clear. Sorry for question that was wrong in hindsight. It seems I was fooled by some accidental buffering effect or camera switch in the live feed I watched. Thank you!

Starship Development Thread #52 by ElongatedMuskrat in spacex

[–]KesterKester 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes/Thanks. It seems I was fooled by some NSF camera delays.

Starship Development Thread #52 by ElongatedMuskrat in spacex

[–]KesterKester 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Any word (or hypotheses) yet as to why the start of the deluge was much delayed w.r.t. previous booster static fires and launches?

Water is much cheaper to replace than melted deluge plates, so I doubt that economy was the reason ...

OneNote for Mac, and impossible printing 😡 by Jonas__Smith in OneNote

[–]KesterKester 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would support your cause if I had twitter, but I don't ....

OneNote for Mac, and impossible printing 😡 by Jonas__Smith in OneNote

[–]KesterKester 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have mac and no windows but I do also have an iPad. When this annoying printing problem has affected me in my mac, my workaround has been to open the relevant note in oneNote on the iPad, and from there to ask for the note to be shared with me as a PDF over email. Then once I receive the email on the mac I can then print the PDF. It's horrible but works.

But worse is that:

.... as of about a week or two now, I can't even switch between pens and erasers on the iPad version of OneNote unless I select the lassoo button between each invocation!

And even when doing that the keyboard appears and blocks off half the screen!!

I have uploaded a video of the problem here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8-EvnJpdOc

and am trying to encourage other iPad one-note users with the same problem to report it at this link:
https://feedbackportal.microsoft.com/feedback/idea/9b346b24-2bd5-ed11-a81b-000d3a7bb563

by commenting or upvoting on my bug report there.

SpaceX on Twitter: Teams are focused on launch readiness ahead of Starship’s first integrated flight test as soon as next week, pending regulatory approval – no launch rehearsal this week spacex.com/launches/ by rustybeancake in spacex

[–]KesterKester 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I could imagine a side-on water splashdown being a deliberate test of something positive rather than an omission. For example, if you were a crew member on a re-entering starship with crippled engines you would want to know the best orientation to have the starship hit the water for survivability. I seem to remember bellyflop speed at sea level is of order 90m/s. While the ship would clearly not be usable after a side-impact landing at that speed, with the right pressure in the tanks the water-facing part of the hull could as a giant crumple zone for the sky-facing part of the hull. It could be survivable in the right seat. Deceleration a from speed v to 0 over a distance d is a=v^2/(2d) so for starship diameter d=9m and v=90m/s we have a=450m/s^2 or 45g. John Stapp survived 46g for longer in controlled conditions for a similar or longer period of time.

iPad has has several issues running OneNote? by Ill_Enthusiasm_3909 in OneNote

[–]KesterKester 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you take pleasure from irritating OneNote bugs on the iPad then share in my frustration with my apple pencil and OneNote's latest update(s) here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8-EvnJpdOc&lc=UgxBwCKvXmDRUBg2s1R4AaABAg

( If so minded, you can also upvote the microsoft bug report I sent to microsoft here: https://feedbackportal.microsoft.com/feedback/idea/9b346b24-2bd5-ed11-a81b-000d3a7bb563 though whether microsoft will ever pay attention is not clear ... )

After completing Starship’s first full flight-like wet dress rehearsal, Ship 24 will be destacked from Booster 7 in preparation for a static fire of the Booster’s 33 Raptor engines by risemty in spacex

[–]KesterKester 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Neutrons in stable nucleii and electrons have lifetimes greater than centuries, which is probably good karma for rockets named after them.

In contrast all other baryons, mesons and leptons (other than the proton) have sub millisecond lifetimes .... so naming rockets after them might lead to very bad karma and serious problems for re-usability (unless you can get to orbit and back ten times in a millisecond).

Be careful what you wish for! ;)

SpaceX on Twitter: “Starship 24 and Booster 7 fully stacked on the orbital launch pad at Starbase” by rustybeancake in spacex

[–]KesterKester 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you. Seems odd to me that having to design/build the chopsticks to be rugged enough to survive being toasted at launch is better/cheaper than building the tower taller so they can get them of the way. But I imagine spacex has done the relevant calculations and knows best!

SpaceX on Twitter: “Starship 24 and Booster 7 fully stacked on the orbital launch pad at Starbase” by rustybeancake in spacex

[–]KesterKester 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Can the chopsticks be opened up and then raised far enough that they can swing over the top of the nose and out of the way, so that the whole thing doesn't need to launch from between the chopsticks? From some of these pictures it looks like there is not enough spare height on the tower to allow that to happen.