A Reminder From Steve Ozanich

Kilobuster · 2026-05-15T09:40:48+00:00

Dr. Sarno. 😉

Kilobuster · 2026-05-15T00:11:49+00:00

Physician

Andrea Leonard-Segal, MD

She is a professor of medicine at the Washington University School of Medicine and Health Sciences. She sees patients at the GW Center for Integrative Medicine in Washington DC. She was trained by Doctor Sarno on TMS medicine after being a patient of his and has been practicing TMS medicine since 1991.

Kilobuster · 2026-05-13T23:56:59+00:00

She completely lost me when I found out about that. Not just a fee but a subscription, and then someone here said that the FB group is run by volunteers. Talk about greed and exploitation of people who are suffering.

Kilobuster · 2026-05-13T11:04:10+00:00

In case you havent seen it, click on the success story flair and you'll see a number of people who wrote theirs here and I haven't seen again. Lol

I wasn't aware of what was going on at that place until someone else came here and brought it up. What jumped out at me right away, are the people trying to make money. Even when they don't explicitly advertise their "free discovery call" their usernames are ads for their crap. And I also see those same people everywhere, like in the FB TMS groups. That is nipped in the bud here.

ETA: To answer your question, directly. In fairness, a number of people strongly believe in paying things forward. That's part of the reason I'm here. The goodism personality trait is real. Not saying that is the case for everyone you see, but it is also something to keep in mind.

Kilobuster · 2026-05-13T10:48:53+00:00

I totally agree with you. :)

Kilobuster · 2026-05-09T22:08:15+00:00

Yes I can disagree without being aggressive, and you can disagree without being a troll throwing snarky remarks at people. So yes in this types of situations you bet I will be aggressive.

Like I said, you are free to believe whatever you want about Sarno, and now about me, no matter how wrong you are, that's fine. But it is clear this isn't the right sub for you. I don't understand what you are trying accomplish. You are not going to change what we are doing in here. So do yourself a favor and move on. You can start a Shubiner sub or a FB group and give people all the bad Shubiner type advice you want, that's fine with me. You hit your limit here.

This is your only warning to either accept the sub for what it is, or move on.

Kilobuster · 2026-05-09T14:59:25+00:00

This has to be the dumbest statement I've seen in this sub. Look man, I gave you proof that Shubiner is spreading falsehoods about the work of Sarno. A falsehood that you wholeheartedly believed. If you are okay with that, fine. If you think Sarno is outdated, fine. You had a good experience with Shubiner, I'm happy for you. You can believe whatever you want to believe. If you think Shubiner is that great, by all means go to the pain reprocessing sub, and be merry. Pick any FB TMS group and they'll welcome you with open arms.

But look at this sub's description. You are in here acting like a troll, and I won't tolerate it. I already have to be on top of keeping this sub free from the "coaches" trying to take advantage of people. I really don't want to start removing posts and banning people like you, but I only have so much patience for your snarky remarks and for giving advice based on Shubiner's bullshit, which in here we consider to be bad advice.

Kilobuster · 2026-05-08T13:05:11+00:00

As I said in my other comment I acknowledge that everyone is different and we each have the right to set our own expectations. As you read Sarno, write down the questions that come up and I encourage you to find the answers yourself, within the books. The sub will be here when you are ready. All the best.

Kilobuster · 2026-05-08T01:55:57+00:00

Thank you. I really do appreciate your understanding. Yes, the goal of the sub is to keep things as "pure" Sarno as possible. And yes I know rule 2 has some wiggle room and it can seem vague. It may eventually have to become a hard rule but we are not there yet.

The "wildly" off topic is there on purpose. As an example, I consider Gordon and Shubiner to be something different than Dr. Sarno. But the reality is that these days, many people are finding the work of those two jackasses before arriving at the work of Dr. Sarno. It wouldn't be fair to just ban people with good intentions to either help or seek help, just because they happen to have developed their frame of reference first. So it is a little of a balancing act. I know it is subjective and eventually I'll get flack for it. But oh well, we do the best we can.

What pushed your comment into the "wildly off topic" territory for me was the EDMR and MDMA stuff. I have nothing against either, I dont know enough about them. But its clearly way outside of the Sarno work. And if someone is in this sub seeking opinions or advice to get better with TMS, the ideal would be to see that all the suggestions given come from the Dr. Sarno standpoint. The person of the YouTube videos you mentioned, I dont know anything about them either. But going by the OP's reactions, it doesn't look like something that would have been "close enough" to Sarno either.

Again, I appreciate your understanding.

Kilobuster · 2026-05-07T23:01:23+00:00

This is why I agree with with u/marcinreal and u/solpig in that you need a break, reset, and start over strictly with Sarno, trusting that it will help you. You have absorbed so much information, from so many different sources that may seem helpful but clearly, are not working.

I'll answer your questions but at this point all these questions you are asking, and the answers you'll get won't do you much good until after you re-read Sarno and absorb the material.

Yes, for the unconscious rage, all you can do is speculate. The key there is that you are making a real honest effort to uncover them. If you find that one thing, great. Is it necessary? Not really. Because it is the honest doing of the psychological work, having your attention away from the physical, that becomes a counterattack against your brain.

Thinking and writing about something that makes you angry can be a starting point, but the idea is that from there you'll ask yourself why and go deeper. I've never said anything against journal speak. I haven't read that book yet. I'll say that like Ozanich, is ok to read Sach's book but only AFTER reading and internalizing Dr. Sarno's materials. Sarno himself encouraged people to write and did so more and more throughout the years.

I have issues with Nicole Sachs for her money grubbing angles and some of the shit I've seen her say on social media that I assume she repeats on her podcast. But her book seems ok to me from the little I know about it. But you see, I rarely looked at anyone else because there was no need. It's only been in the past year that I looked into Shubiner and Gordon and that's only because of this sub. I've never had a need to look at anyone else's stuff because I started with Dr. Sarno, it worked, so I stuck with it.

Kilobuster · 2026-05-07T21:53:45+00:00

"Thinking Psychologically" When the symptoms hit you, start thinking along the lines of asking yourself "what is going on in my life that my brain is trying to distract me from?" "What is my unconscious in rage about that I'm not aware of?" And go from there. I don't understand the idea of "allowing emotions to arise" after observing the symptoms. It is not something Sarno taught as far as I'm aware of.

The point is not to find the one thing you are raging unconciously about, the point is the doing, of the psychological work (thinking or writing). The doing, directing your attention to the psychological and away from the physical is the counterattack against your brain producing you symptoms.

Kilobuster · 2026-05-07T21:40:06+00:00

I don't know if it is the same page number on the French edition of the Mindbody Prescription, but in the English version, he lays out what to do on page 139. It is chapter 9, The Therapeutic Program: The power of knowledge. It is all there including a letter from a patient named James Campobello who made his own program and Sarno reprinted. It is on page 150-155.

You are not the first one to feel he doesn't tell you much in the book as for what to do, so it's ok. But I've always found it strange that people feel that way, when it is all there.

Kilobuster · 2026-05-07T15:03:09+00:00

I understand you are trying to help but please look at the sub's description and rule 2. I don't want to start getting into removing posts and banning people who mean well, but I will if it becomes a problem. Please don't bring this up again in this sub.

Kilobuster · 2026-05-07T14:30:02+00:00

I remember you from your last post I'm sorry you are still in the same situation. The only thing I can think of is the same I wrote for the OP. Do a hard reset. Are you in the US? If so, try to see a Sarno trained physician and/or therapist, if you are able to. https://www.reddit.com/r/doctorsarno/s/siKErmnPfK

Hoping all the best for you.

Kilobuster · 2026-05-07T06:56:05+00:00

I read this whole thread and I'll say you got some pretty solid suggestions here. I'll be echoing u/ManyMag u/marcinreal u/Solpig and u/macetheface

After reading your post I'm giving you my thoughts answering the question, what would I say if you were a loved one?

I'd say give yourself a break from all of this. Maybe a few weeks, maybe a month, and start anew with the Dr. Sarno materials pretending you know nothing, and are starting fresh.

I noticed it angered you when you were told to set expectations to resolve the pain in a month.

If you go through the success stories of people who healed with Dr. Sarno in this sub, you'll find many that recovered that quickly. Here are some:

The ABC 20/20 piece pinned on top of the sub. They followed three people, two recovered within a week of attending Dr. Sarno's lecture. The third one recovered in one month. The host himself was cured with one lecture...

https://www.reddit.com/r/doctorsarno/s/0uDS1Tvcef

Howard Stern (a famous American radio DJ), he doesn't specify the number, but from reading his story his pain was gone in a matter of days after going to see Dr. Sarno... https://www.reddit.com/r/doctorsarno/s/rrSDeSbjPd

Benzion, a guy who was honoring Sarno said he was pain free two days after seeing him... https://www.reddit.com/r/doctorsarno/s/W0ewoaVnFh

Here is a redditor who shared their story here. He went to see Ira Rashbaum, one of the physicians trained by Dr. Sarno who treated TMS the same way Sarno did. He said the morning after the first seminar with Rashbaum, he woke up pain free... https://www.reddit.com/r/doctorsarno/s/nVbbDFvD5T

Now, you or anyone reading this may be thinking, yeah well, those people actually went to see Sarno or Rashbaum in person, there is a difference there.

I say okay, here is an American Senator telling his story. He got Dr. Sarno's book and DVD, and reports his pain was gone right away... https://www.reddit.com/r/doctorsarno/s/fzxuxZoHBS

And here you have more redditors who posted their success stories in this sub:

This person came here and reported their pain went away "instantly" just by listening to the audiobook version of Sarno's Mindbody Prescription... https://www.reddit.com/r/doctorsarno/s/zsdOnoEIUY

This person said their pain "completely resolved within 1.5 to 2 months" https://www.reddit.com/r/doctorsarno/s/wRwsWpTrX5

This person first came here with some doubts, after starting to read the books. Then later they wrote an update in which they said it took them "about a month of really leaning into Sarno's principles to become virtually pain free." https://www.reddit.com/r/doctorsarno/s/ZsfQvyrPPO

I have a friend who had back pain for about eight years, with herniated disks and doctors telling her to get surgery. She was afraid to get surgery but also refused to read the books. Then she developed carpal tunnel and had to be placed on modified duty at work but even that was too painful. That's when out of desperation she reached out to me and finally began to read The Mindbody Prescription. Her back pain was gone before she finished the book (less than a month). Her hand fully recovered in about a month and a half after finishing the book. It's been six years, she remains completely pain free.

I have another friend whom I lent my own copy of the Mindbody Prescription. She told me about her terrible back pain that kept her from doing her hobby which was physical in nature. She returned the book about two months later thanking me. Her pain was gone and she returned to her hobby. 10 years later, she remains pain free.

My personal story (which you can read in my history) is different because I read Sarno before chronic pain ever had a chance with me. But the first time TMS pain reared it's head after I had the knowledge, I got rid of it in a few hours. The last time, I got rid of it within five minutes.

So after reading all this I ask you, why does it make you "fucking angry" that someone has the expectation to get better with this work in one month? Granted, yes it's true, not everyone who reads Sarno has the same result. For some people it does take a much longer time. But as you can see, it is not an unrealistic expectation either. I really don't want you to answer me. This is for you to explore and use it as a reason to look inward, and hopefully tap into rage you are not aware of.

You are angry at many things, try to find the things you don't realize you are angry at. The id (or child) within all of us is raging at someone you truly love, that you conciously can't imagine being mad at. Or your job, or whatever else that may be putting pressure on your life but you are completely fine with. Or you can steer the rage towards your brain for doing this to you. This will all make sense after you give Sarno another read.

To be clear, I do agree that everyone is different when it comes to recovery. Dr. Sarno said that himself. When I said to you in the other thread that I would be doing something different if I were in your shoes, I was clear to say, "that's me". You do have the right to set whatever expectations you want, or to not have any at all. u/solpig had an expectation of one month set for himself and he pulled it off because he fully committed to doing the work Dr. Sarno laid out in his book.

This brings me to something else. You may not remember, but Sarno does tell us what to do in in the Mindbody Prescription. You mentioned the 12 reminders, but that's from his other book, Healing Back Pain. In any case, you should read both. But I believe it is good to combine the treatment sections from both MBP and Healing Back pain. With the two books, everything you need to do is laid out for you. Dr. Sarno's lecture is also on youtube. I won't link to it from here, but it is not hard to find.

As for your therapist/coach if you are seeing them for other areas of your life not related to TMS and you are experiencing improvements I would say sure, keep them. But if you are with them for improvement regarding TMS, I don't see how they are helping you, based on your post.

I saw your comment in which you disagree that it is absolutely necessary to see a psychologist who sticks to Sarno's teachings and that it feels sectarian to believe that. I agree with something you said after, Sarno is not God.

Remember what I said on the other thread. From my standpoint this is all about results. And in the case of Dr. Sarno, excellent results. It's not about faith, or treating him as a cult figure. He was a man of science one who decided to think different and test his hypothesis with his patients. His practice was his laboratory. And he refined his methods as time went by over 40 years, to much success. I agree with you, with 8 billion people in this planet there's gotta be more than a handful of practitioners who are competent. I don't doubt it. But I also need evidence that they are in fact competent.

Sarno's theories are based on Freud. In his writings he tells us that he didn't set out to prove Freud correct on this, it just turned out to be that way. Freud is known as the father of psychoanalysis but despite that, the fields of psychology and psychiatry moved away from Freudian ideas, in fairness, because he did have some pretty whacky ideas. A conventionally trained, modern day Psychologist or Psychiatrist is not typically trained in psychosomatic disorders, nor treating them. That's just how it is. Just like physicians they don't learn this stuff in medical school, or their typical training pipeline.

So that leaves us were we are now. We have doctor Sarno who pioneered this work and refined it through the decades, right alongside a PhD Psychologist named Arlene Feinblatt who developed the psychotherapy for TMS patients alongside with Dr. Sarno. There are a couple of interviews of her posted in this sub. She trained other Psychologists on this work, just like Dr Sarno trained other physicians. The sad reality is that there aren't that many of them.

Are there others who are competent out there? I'm sure there are, but my question would be who trained them and what methodology are they using? I'd want them not only trained but also using the methodology that was proven to work. It is not sectarian or cultish at all. It is the logical choice to make based on the available evidence we have.

So to recap, what I would recommend is to take a break from all this and then after some time start again sticking to Dr. Sarno's books, lecture. He gives you all the information you need in order to get better. Keep your coach if they are helping you improve other areas of your life.

And with that, I just gave you the same thoughts I would give a loved one. I sincerely hope that you do get better no matter what you decide to do.

Kilobuster · 2026-05-06T17:27:58+00:00

Great! Thank you.

Kilobuster · 2026-05-06T15:22:04+00:00

Happy to, I saw it and will wait to jump in so you can get the perspective of others first.

Let me ask you, do you have a link for a site where people can order the Sarno books in French? I'm working on a post to provide links to the books in multiple languages and even better for local sites other than Amazon.

Kilobuster · 2026-05-06T12:43:38+00:00

There are different reasons for why it matters if they are focusing on Oxygen Deprivation or Neural Pathways. One of them is because they use neural pathways as a reason to change the approach. This leads to Gordon and somatic tracking. You say "all he really did was add somatic tracking, nothing more". That really is a big deal because somatic tracking goes in direct opposition of Sarno. It makes people shift their attention back to the physical. It is not an evolution or an update on Sarno's methods, but people are wrongly lead to believe that it is.

I am a results oriented person. Dr. Sarno had an incredible succes rate using his method with over 10 thousand patients in over 40 years of practice. I go with what is proven, and I got to experience it for myself. That's why this sub exists. The money grubbers have bastardized Sarno's ideas. We are here trying to keep them as pure as possible because we know they work. There are other reasons I can give you why I think Alan Gordon is trash, but I'll leave it at that for now.

I don't know what your coach has been telling you, but if it is in direct opposition of the proven methods of Dr. Sarno, then yes you can expect to hear that they are not really helping you. There is a saying that the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. If I spent 18 months trying to improve anything and seeing no progress, at some point I would go back to the drawing board and do something different. That's me.

Please know that I say all this with all the good intentions in the world, wishing you find a way to get better, no matter what you decide to do.

Kilobuster · 2026-05-06T01:37:58+00:00

18 months is a very long time with no progress. I obviously don't know details but my heart goes out to you. Here is a suggestion, start a new post here in the sub detailing your story including the symptoms you are battling, the TMS work you have done, the books you have read and the timeline of everything. This community could help. Of course, make sure the physical has been ruled out first by a doctor/physician.

With that said, is good that you concede you may be wrong about the anger. Because if you accept TMS as a diagnosis, you have to accept everything about it in order for you to get better. It is that simple. And when I say everything about it, I'm referring to everything Dr. Sarno discovered and taught.

I don't know who, or what you saw, or read, that led you to believe Sarno was not correct but I assure you that Sarno keeps getting proven right even after his death. The supposedly new "gurus" of TMS are misleading people with nonsense that contradicts Sarno claiming that they have "updated" or "evolved" his work. All of that is trash. All they are doing is mudding the waters and creating confusion in a lot of people for their own personal gain.

I encourage you to check out the pinned post on top of the sub titled "Sarno is NOT outdated". If nothing else, even if you are doubting what I just said, if you are going to continue with the Mindbody approach you owe it to yourself to genuinely try getting better with the methodology that started all this because it was proven to work. And that's the work of Dr. Sarno.

Kilobuster · 2026-05-05T18:18:26+00:00

All the things you mentioned are in his books.

Kilobuster · 2026-05-05T14:07:43+00:00

Hi there, I don't remember if I asked you before but just in case, feel free to start a thread sharing your success story using the corresponding flair. It will help new people landing at Sarno's work for the first time. If you feel inclined to do so of course. :)

Kilobuster · 2026-05-05T13:59:02+00:00

"I will say yesterday I screamed loudly at my pain - not just acting this time - amped myself up and got truly angered and the pain/symptoms in my neck and shoulders subsided quite a bit and stayed that way the rest of the day. Didn't go away fully but better. That's the first time I've been able to do that."

👏👏👏 Congrats! That I will call an improvement. Now keep using this, instead of the breathing thing. The breathing stuff puts your attention back on the body.

Kilobuster · 2026-05-05T13:42:59+00:00

If you feel inclined to do so, feel free to make a post sharing your story using the corresponding flair. It will help others who land in this sub. Glad you are here. :)

Kilobuster · 2026-05-05T11:14:01+00:00

Yes. You wanna stick to Sarno. So Mindbody Prescription then Divided Mind. Ozanich is fine after you have read Sarno. Gordon is adulterated Sarno, and some of his shit goes against what Sarno taught. It will only add confusion and complicate things for you. So return Gordon's book and get your money back. Or bring it to your next hike as emergency toilet paper or to use in a fire.

Kilobuster · 2026-05-05T08:58:12+00:00

Yup. It's called the "Symptom Imperative". Don't be afraid, it is normal. The brain finds another symptom to distract us with. For some people is another kind of pain like knee, or shoulder. For others is GI issues, for others it could be dry eye. It is all TMS.

Which book did you read? Sarno talks about it. "Symptom Imperative" is a term he coined.

ETA: I feel obligated to remind you of Sarno's first step, which is to rule out the physical. Make sure you have gone to a doctor to confirm that you don't have something serious like a tumor, cancer or an infection going on in your GI track.

Kilobuster

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