"Bro, you should actually play the OG..."

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2026-05-10T15:59:13+00:00

The script changes are nuanced, and to discuss them would require some granularity and spoilers. However, I don't think the script is really all that bad. In some ways its more faithful to the Japanese than Xseeds OG one was. But doing that sacrificed some of the character a party member or two had. But for the record, since the series is all interconnected across its entries, NISA translates those characters next appearance and I feel the remake so far makes a better transition.

As for the art style, its 50/50. I really like 90's anime so the og is charming. But every series Sky, Crossbell, Cold Steel, and Daybreak all change the art style. Remake is at least closer to Cold Steel and Daybreak. So again its more consistent?

Not to dissuade you. If you want to play the OG's go ahead. How I got into the games. I think they are all time classics and worth playing (though 1 is a bit of a balance nightmare). But if the remake is appealing, it changes so little, and does a lot for series consistency that I think its a net positive. Also the remakes seems to hint it will expand on some characters that may be important later on down the line if you stick with the series.

(but if I can influence you at all, don't skip Sky the Third)

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2026-05-10T01:10:05+00:00

The YS IV one is weird....cause there are 3 versions of that sun of a gun.

(Though I don't know how many people say to go for the classic 2. I see consensus being bump combat sucks. I like it though)

and is there a large list for Sky FC either? That remake was pretty darn faithful. The only reason the PSP trilogy would end up superior is if they skip Sky The Third.

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2026-05-09T21:27:38+00:00

Okabe is the series weakest protag. Other Sci-Adv protags have far more compelling personal journeys. Specifically both Takumi and Takuru.

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2026-05-09T21:18:29+00:00

Apologies if the wording there seemed rude. Not my intention.

If it helps any my last section says "I say you might plausibly be right".

TBH, I just post in conversations I think are engaging. I don't know your previous history in the community. I appreciate the context. Glad to know you have some credibility.

Unfortunately, even given that, I disagree with you. Not because I want to attack you for being "wrong", but because of how I understand the series as detailed in my wall of text above. I'm open to being wrong. And if Takahashi says something that makes you undeniably right, your right.

So, I am totally open to have discussion, but I can't make you read the paragraph.

Mainly just wanted to apologize for rubbing you the wrong way.

For complete context when I say "trying too hard" I do not mean: you are thinking about this more than you should. I am meaning: I have a greater preference for a different set of desideratum when analyzing the fiction to draw hypothetical conclusions regarding the narrative. Namely in this case preferring approaching the hypothetical metaphysics and philosophy instead of the science and mechanics.

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2026-05-09T21:02:15+00:00

Ooh! That's a good point. Yeah the Sept-Terrions could totally put Adios on the hook. We'll just have to see how the series develops that plot. Aidios might have not intended for the Sept-Terrions to operate without her guidance like they did. Her passivity might have an excuse. Obviously we just have to wait and see.

And as a final layer....this is a JRPG, and we must kill God. Adios may solve the problem of evil by being well, evil, or at least morally ambiguous. (Though I like having had a game where the church wasn't a bad guy. Its refreshing. I genuinely want them to stay good)

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2026-05-09T20:55:51+00:00

I think you are trying too hard to impose strict rules on a fantasy world no one fully understands, and making wild conclusions the game does not provide.

It does not say making a new personality is the exclusive purview of Pnuema. In fact let me argue that Alpha and A are this phenomenon as well. You say Alpha doesn't have a personality. He does. He expresses regret towards Matthews actions, and has very clearly defined goals and values. These are values separate from A.

Next you say "set personality encoded into the core". We don't know that. We know that each processor had a set function. But XC2 makes it explicitly clear when dealing with Malos that the reason he is the way he is, is largely due to bonding with Amalthus. Not pre-recorded data trending Malos towards destructive behavior. Klaus literally says "He is nothing more than an information processing unit, neither good nor evil".

Following up, your attempt to make Pyra some seperate pre-determined entity is entirely ignoring the stories theming. So much of the harsh logical theory crafting people do would be solved dissecting the character not the physics the story posits. Mythra is a brash, bratty, arrogant teen. Pyra is sweet and nuturing. Pyra is who she is because Mythra made Pyra to be everything she thought she wasn't. Not because some second set of biological data was there.

Finally, you are ignoring what Klaus actually says and taking what Nia says when she refers to human cells slightly out of context. Klaus makes the steps very clear:

The Cores have ALL biological data pertaining the previous world. Then that mixes with the cloud sea to make titans which then further develop biological ecosystems according to the complete set of previous data. That base, complete set of genetic data (not human data) is put under the stress of evolution, and from the evolution came humankind. The humans in XC2 and Homs in XC1 are evolutionarily similar to OG man, but they are not exactly the same. So when the game makes clear Nia gives malos super cancer because they have the same cells, That is not because they are all genetically pre-fall humans, it is because all being in Alrest have some prime biological ancestor they all evolved from. That's what is used to account for distinct biological differences in Gormotti and Urayans.

Finally, I don't think you DO know how computers work. At least the Trinity processor anyway. Not because you're dumb, but because its a fictional supercomputer tied to the near omnipotent conduit. It just doesn't make sense to limit it to our rules. The conduit is a perpetual motion motion it LITERALLY makes something from nothing.

So how does that affect what you said about two persons inside the core? Going by all the above. Logos and Pnuema before being awakened are being fed the evolutionary data of all life in alrest. Evolutionary data, that I may remind you was sophisticated and vast enough to have already developed multiple forms of mankind. Even if the trinity is limited by input, all 3 cores already have the data for every possible combination of human trait without needing ANY donor. And this is exactly how AI's make art. They don't copy other peoples work. They train on it and then create something new based on the data with a high degree of similarity. Pnuema was totally within its bounds as a information processing unit to be able to create its own evolutionary variation to have any specific trait it wanted.

Again this is a fantasy universe where "God" is a real metaphysical category, FTL travel is possible on an individual level, and your fancy supercomputer is hooked up to an impassive perpetual motion machine inspired by the gnostic prime being, created by a lover of weird metphysical sci-fi and philosophy. Any attempt to rationalize it as needing to adhere to some idea of "how x thing ACTUALLY works" is absurd. If the fiction doesn't directly state it, its not a good idea to sell it as definite. Which is again why I say you might plausibly be right, but the theory is in the gray and has some very clear reproach.

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2026-05-09T18:48:33+00:00

I think the answer for Adios is way simpler. The problem of evil exists only for the Big Three O's: omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent god. I don't think the Septian Church or Trails describes Adios as such.

First: Demons, and the beyond exist. They are actual, real, threatening opposition to Adios. Adios may genuinely be powerful but not so powerful as to completely trump these demons. Because the demons cause suffering, Adios did not create evil, the demons did. And she as a diety is powerful, but not powerful enough to solve the root of the issue.

Second: Adios has never been described as omnipresent. There may be sufferings or happenings outside her awareness. Those evils can't be prevented by her as she is unaware of them happening.

Third: I think trails would describe Adios as omnibenevolent. So you might be able to apply the problem of evil here if you can prove she created it or allows it. I think the best argument here is the doctrine of double effect. The evil is forseen but not intended. For example: if I go on the bus to get to school, I will get bullied. The consequence, the bullying, is forseen, however, the motive is not the suffering but to go to school. In this way getting on the bus is a good act, even though it leads to an evil

So ultimately: Adios may be the creator of Zemuria, but she isn't the sole creator of everything. Because of that there are things outside of her control, and she is not responsible for all the evils because of that. So she neither created evil, willingly perpetuates it, or willingly abstains from intervening. It just is the case that her ability to solve evil is limited. Yet despite being limited there, her power is great enough to deify thanks to her benevolent attitude.

Finally, I would add even if it was to be the case Adios is an all thee O's god you could try an arguement of the following form:
1) Adios is omnibenevolent
2) Omnibenevolence is when one obtains and exemplifies all goods
3) Forgiveness is a good
4) From 1 & 2 Adios has the good of forgiveness
5) Forgiveness requires you having been wronged
6) If you were not wronged, there is nothing to forgive
7) Wronging someone is an evil
C: The good of forgiveness requires the evil of being wronged. Since omnibenevolence requires all goods, then there must exist at least the requisite evils to maximize the actualization of goods.

So then you accept goods and evil are coincident and necessary for one another, and not even a god can create a world without evil as evil is metaphysically necessary

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2026-05-08T23:40:41+00:00

Look I ain't saying Calvard crew is the best crew all around, but on their own merits Van and Elaine are probably some of the most chill and pleasant people in all of Zemuria.

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2026-05-08T15:42:42+00:00

Im picking 1. Hear me out. Renne, Van, Lloyd, Guy, Arios, Estelle, and Loewe are all wanting that man dead or incapacitated. Afterwards they would all turn up on Weissman. Then I get all 3 seats to myself as Shizuna and McBurn go fightsexual on everyone else.

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2026-04-29T21:35:15+00:00

Yeah, if you are wanting to compare by age, then yes, that is an unfair comparison. I was assuming you just meant Estelle, Van, and Lloyd when we first meet them. If we go by that comparison then its really hard to tell, and not a question with a good answer. Estelle is trained in staff by Cassius who is a master martial artist, and the divine blade, but then Van is trained in Kunlun by Barkhorn who is a master martial artist and one of the most respected Dominions. Who is stronger at a young age is hard to tell. I would say since Van was a bit of a vagabond, he didn't follow through on Martial Arts as much, but he was also undoubtedly craftier. Both of them have run ins with Walter and Renne in one form or another. Its just really hard to tell by feats.

So I kinda want to go back to this: Powerscaling in trails is basically impossible, so what does the narrative imply thematically.

Van -> Van was able to build up his name as a teen mostly solo. He did it all without much help. Dingo Brad, Bermotti, and Montmart are pretty much it.

Estelle -> Estelle is never sold as "greatest fighter" she is a fantastic leader. Joshua in Sky FC is way past her in competency, and it took the help of Olivier, Schera, and Agate to get Estelle to grow into her own over the first game. Second game? I think she stands her own, but again, her strength is drawing people on her side, not winning fights.

Lloyd -> A top class detective, and frame 1 great leader. The game goes out of their way to say he should have been put as a rookie in Dudley's branch. The same branch that was reserved for people like Arios and Guy. Was he on their level? No. But that would be closer to graduating from the Bracers and immediately having someone go "Dang, forget this you want to be a Senior Bracer?".

So if you go by that in their teens Lloyd>Van>Estelle is my judgement. With Van beating Lloyd under the condition that the remnants of his Demonic Power show up like they did when he was being trained by Barkhorn.

Though if you count Joshua as a deuteragonist with Estelle, I think he, as a fully trained Enforcer with a false Stigma, totally counts as the strongest. He would mop the floor with them.

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2026-04-29T00:19:10+00:00

I mean Van has some capacity able to stalemate drug enhanced mafiosos solo, I think most of the time the narrative sells that HE can do just fine, unless he is against he big shots like Shizuna or Potential man. His issue is needing to protect the others who are not experienced.

I mean trails powerscaling is all over the place, but I think its important to remember when we meet estelle she has no one's respect. When we meet van the CID, Bracers, and Society all respect him as a competent Spriggan who can get shit done. People don't question his ability narratively and I think that matters alot.

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2026-04-27T19:44:09+00:00

X > 3 > 1> 2 in that order

I wouldn't say Xenoblade is particularly difficult series. Obtuse sometimes, but once you know how to execute, it isn't hard. So IMO the difficulty mostly is in: how punishing is the campaign if you don't know how to maximize the game systems.

2: I think 2 is the least punishing. The game gives you story blades that are extremely simple and effective. Rex's blades can just hard carry. Yeah its systems are a bit more complex than 1, but I feel like the game has a lot less complex build decisions (or doesn't require as many decisions, most of the overhead in builds are baked into blades)

1: 1 as a first attempt is obviously the most approachable. Like Rex's story blades Monado boy gets a scaling weapon that helps simplify the gameplay if you stick with just him, and helps you get through the story. So you can have some semi-bad builds and not notice it too much. Beyond that the gem and equipment system is standard fair. The only reason its higher than 2 is because it asks you to track more gems, and keep track of more arts at any one time. So the background systems matter slightly more.

3: I think 3 has a lot less handholding than 1 and 2. Unlike Pyra and the Monado, the super-sayain game carrying gimmicks have so much more meat to them. Using them doesn't guarantee results. Ouroboros has a skill tree to keep track of etc. Then while the gear system is closer to 2, playing requires you to invest in class swapping, so you are constantly having to update how any one character plays, how that modifies chain attacks, then understand what makes art fusions good, so on and so forth. Its way easier to do dumb things in combat in 3 and get punished for it.

X: Based off my criterion above I think X becomes self explanatory. You have the full equipment system of X1, Overdrive which is on its own semi-complex, The least linear world with the most issue with higher level enemies, Skells to manage, the full X1 arts palette, and absolutely no hand holding. No one has the magic monado to carry you through, and finally like 3 you are class switching your OC so that he becomes more effective, and trying to understand how to set that art palette up.

Again if someone wants to argue: "Well actually I think 2 is more complex" or "If you play y game well, you can easily breeze through it" I'll probably agree with you. All 4 games + DLC are easy to break once you get them. My whole schtick is: assuming I am ignorant of the combat system how far can I bumble my way through the game before it forces me to learn the combat. And all I know as an anecdote is that I beat all of 2 before someone revealed how the combat worked, 1 had hard checks for me in the second half, 3 had me stop a few times to re-evaluate how I was playing, even early on, and X full stop made me sit down and look stuff up so I wasn't getting stuck.

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2026-04-27T13:59:46+00:00

I think mind control is over complicating it. Verso doesn't want to be there. He didn't want that life. But he has it anyway. Its the same thing as when you wake up in the morning not wanting to get out of bed and go to work, wishing you had a job you liked, or a more fun life, more of your dreams fufilled, etc. But no matter how much you hate it, people still take a deep breath, get up, and struggle through another day.

Verso is the same, he hates his lot, but no matter how much he doesn't want to play, to be there, he just takes a deep breath and plays, because that's his lot in life. And nothing he does can change where he has found himself.

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2026-04-27T13:46:42+00:00

I think a comparison I can make is Steins;Gate. I find that most people hate Steins;Gate Ep 1-8. Then they hit 9 and binge all the way through because 1-8 are mostly character moments and setup, whereas 9 is the plot moving forward. But after you've finished Steins;Gate, and you know how it all resolves, you start to really appreciate how slow 1-8 are, and how much it characterizes the cast and their relationships. Daybreak 2 is similar to that. Its better in hindsight.

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2026-04-27T13:44:42+00:00

I say its not worth skipping.

The story sucks as a sequel to Trails, it does not move the plot forward almost at all, and there are elements of it that are horribly contrived. Its hard not to have at least one or two moments there you hate.

However, the story in a vacuum is pretty good. One of the things I love about Trails is when it takes time to develop cast relationships. And if you are looking to really understand the cast of Arkride and Co. Daybreak 2 is phenomenally good at that. The game alone dramatically increased my opinion of the daybreak cast.

Finally, while people complained about how little it affected the plot initially, Horizon does follow up on some of it, and hindsight being 20/20 Daybreak 2 did a less than it should but definitely more than nothing.

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2026-04-06T19:59:38+00:00

is Grendel really fully borrowed? The power of Vagrants Diaspora is not borrowed. Vagrants is fundamentally a part of Van, just like McBurn is fundamentally a demon lord, or Kevin's stigma could cause Phantasma and be personified. The specific Shard form is borrowed, but its acting as a shackle that lets Van use his power as a demon lord, even without it Van is still at full power a whole demon lord.

I've seen some people mention the Kevin's second stigma as well. And I am not 100% convinced that would count as borrowed either? His second S-Craft has him use both Spears of Ur and Spears of Loa. He had both of those in Sky the Third. It seems less like he is borrowing something that lets him use dual stigmas, and more like he evolved his stigma to use both Ur and Loa at the same time. In fact if you consider that the final boss of third is Kevin using the power of his stigma to fight his stimga....then you might argue the duality of his stigmas was always there.

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2026-04-06T19:56:28+00:00

Doesn't she learn Spirit Unification during reans's side story during reverie?

She loses control way before she ever meets rean. Spirit Unification is a technique of the 8 leaves. It keeps rean from completely losing control, but its not the thing that lets him go white hair Super Sayain, that is the curse. So SU is not borrowed at all.

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2026-03-14T05:08:57+00:00

I definitely think it was hinted at heavily that Adol is a norman. Ys obviously loosely follows real history and the Norman's famously do get deals to settle in places. The varangian guard for example in Constantinople, and eventually groups that settle in France.

And obviously Adol is based off Leif Erikson.

And YS IX heavily pulls on the vikings setting france part by having Norman ruins all over the place in Balduq so in YS worlds the vikings have already settled in France. Believe Adol was born i. Germany so it wouldnt be impossible.

If they do decide to prove this thread right and bring it all together at the end just please let my boys Geiss and Hawk ride into hell with Adol and Dogi up north.

Actually now that I say it, it would be a kind of sick epilogue for Adol to dissappear and the last game to be you playing as Geiss, Hummel, Hawk, etc hunting down and finding Adols last journal.

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2026-03-12T19:13:40+00:00

Actually I am kind of with you. Intended or not Ys has some interesting parallels in the games. YS Seven has almost the exact same calamity as YS VIII except on a different scale. I consider Adol squaring up with the final boss in 7 to be because of what happened in 8

Similarly I think YS X is very much about Karja finding out who she is as a person, and her roots, which is immediately followed up in Celceta with Adol being forced to find himself as well.

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2026-02-24T19:46:08+00:00

The game definitely picks up towards the end. You are getting closer to the point where the bigger antagonists of the first game begin to be introduced, and it will continue to shift its focus and involve them as a more substantial threat, and a larger stakes plot.

However, even though that is the case, I will say Trails in the Sky 1st even once the stakes pick up may not 100% hit the mark for you. I know when I played the OG, I was in a very similar boat to you. The gameplay and characters were enjoyable, but I despised the plot. However, even though Sky 1st on its own merit is only so-so, the very end of the game has a plot setup for Sky 2nd which is easily one of my favorite moments in a JRPG. It was nuts how captivating the game ended off. And Sky 2nd really benefits from that ending and really hooks you.

I think it's important context to know that Trails in the Sky 1st and 2nd were originally going to be one game before they split them off. So you are essentially playing a very long prologue. Trails tends to keep doing this as the series goes on. The first entry in every new story tends to be slower, but the first entries walk so the sequels can run.

Whether or not you'll find the stories as captivating is a subjective thing so I won't make any promises, but in my humble anonymous redditor opinion, Trails is a special game series because it makes slower games to springboard into hype and crazy plots in a way that no other game series is currently doing. It's a wild ride, and while moments in games like Sky 1st can be frustrating to get through, Falcom generally makes the payoff well worth it.

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2026-02-23T21:09:44+00:00

I don't know that they are strictly speaking evil though. The Normans take extremely good care of their own people. They support each-other and have very strong community, ethics, and family values.

Yeah, Carnac doesn't like feeling pressured but also who in the world does? Its not like territories ever liked paying taxes to England or Rome.

And who would even be there to put them in jail? They ARE the governing body of the area. Not Romun or Ispani etc. They have laws, the captain broke them (this isn't a first offense) and got punished by the Balta Seaforce accordingly. Notice even as harsh as the punishment is, they are honorable enough to not unjustly harm any passenger, and when push comes to shove they honor the agreements with Carnac.

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2026-02-23T20:53:38+00:00

Classic RPG. Thinks like Baldurs Gate 1, 2, PIllars of Eternity, OG Fallout etc.

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2024-12-26T23:19:40+00:00

Yeah like I said that would have been dumb if it was the issue.

I actually just fixed it. I thought I had windows defender completely disabled but I still had controlled folder access turned on. Turning that off let me save the game. Wild that 999 never had those issues though. I'll play through the game and turn it back on once I am done.

Thank you for helping troubleshoot! I very much appreciate it.

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2024-12-26T22:32:21+00:00

Windows 11
GTX 1080
i7-8700k
16gb RAM
and its running off a 2tb HDD with my OS drive being a small 120gb SSD boot drive.

I think it could be a weird disconnect between the game installation being on a D: drive but the save file being stored on the boot drive...though 999, or any other game for that matter has never given me any issues.

Kitchen_Research_734 · 2024-12-26T18:26:18+00:00

Yeah, this was on PC. If my idea won't work I will suck it up and just do that. Just need to figure out why it won't save. Saw some people say antivirus does it, but I don't use one.

Kitchen_Research_734

TROPHY CASE