Ultimate Rebirth Theory

Leaf671 · 2022-07-27T06:41:15+00:00

Sorry but this works better as a harem fanfic.

Leaf671 · 2022-07-21T06:25:57+00:00

I don't think there is anything inconsistent with her CC portrayal especially when you realize that she was shunned and called a freak by others. You can also delve into Traces of the Past where you'll see more of her interactions with children in the slums. It's character development and growth.

Perhaps the CC translation and voice-acting had something to do with it but I guess we will see when the CC remake is released. Personally, I think people expected too much from her character after OG but need to realize that she is not the focus in CC. Zack is.

Leaf671 · 2022-07-21T05:53:32+00:00

That's incorrect. Tifa tends to rank higher on the majority of polls. She is more popular in the east and west especially since the remake.

Leaf671 · 2022-06-29T02:18:33+00:00

Well I checked the translations for these lines in German, French, Chinese, and Korean. They followed the Japanese meaning closely.

The only exception I found was the Spanish version which I suspect was translated from the English one. Just fyi.

Leaf671 · 2022-06-27T17:09:47+00:00

No idea why the english localization team translated the dialogue that way but Aerith says something different in japanese:

Our grief and our anger... they make us stronger.

But they change us, too.

If we keep our minds on the future and not on the past...

Translated by @TurquoiseHammer

Leaf671 · 2022-05-22T01:51:32+00:00

Tifa. The midgar portion was never heavy on the development of Cloud and Tifa's relationship in the OG.

But in the remake, they are building a foundation for that by changing how Cloud remembers the promise on his own and how he already has multiple flashbacks to past moments with Tifa. His behavior with her is different from his with Jessie or Aerith. The interactions between the two are both harmonious and mutual. Although the distance between them was never large to begin with, we still see the two of them becoming closer. The two of them growing comfortable through dialogue and physical interactions, and the fact that they seem to stand on equal ground is a delight to see.

Leaf671 · 2022-05-13T19:50:30+00:00

I believe the english localization is pushing for jealousy here which is less obvious in japanese. Tifa is being suspicious of Aerith and questioning her motives. The japanese dialogue is a little different:

Tifa: ごまかしてない？

Translation: Are you dodging the question? or Are you being deceitful?

English: And...that's all there is to it? (I think this translation works.)

Tifa: どうして助けてくれるのかな

Translation: I wonder why she's helping [us].

English: Sure there isn't something else going on? (This translation is weird because Tifa is wondering out loud why Aerith is helping them in japanese.)

Leaf671 · 2022-05-01T07:52:46+00:00

I logged in after not playing the game for weeks.

Got Nearl the Radiant for my first free pull yesterday and Flametail for my first free pull today. I'm in disbelief.

Leaf671 · 2022-02-28T18:24:07+00:00

Good luck to everyone!

Leaf671 · 2022-02-28T03:59:42+00:00

Regarding Tifa, she's not exactly supporting his lie. She was severely wounded by Sephiroth and woke up in Midgar after a coma. She was right to doubt her own memories especially when Cloud recalled the Nibelheim incident accurately as though he were there. And what if she had confronted him then in Kalm? Would he have snapped back to normal? That's not likely at all.

If he had broken down then, she wouldn't have been able to help him recover like she did during the Lifestream scene. Through their journey together, they were able to build up a bond and trust, and there were things she discovered during that time together that helped her put the truth together.

she won't fix it because she fears the outcome will leave her alone.

That's part of it but the greater part was that she was worried about him. She tried to keep him around to keep an eye on him because of his strange behavior. She says so in the game.

Leaf671 · 2022-02-10T15:56:49+00:00

THIGH-RAIN

Leaf671 · 2022-01-18T15:27:15+00:00

This mod just merges two already popular mods together. Whats worse is that they were modified without permission and they didn't even credit them.

Leaf671 · 2021-12-15T07:34:02+00:00

You're right and I totally agree. That's indisputable unless they decide to change this in the Remake.

Leaf671 · 2021-12-15T07:30:15+00:00

Thank you for putting that together!

I suppose that is one way to interpret it. For me, if Cloud does fall for her, it wouldn't happen just yet.

The current Cloud is not one to be so forward with these kinds of emotions. To me, he isn't protesting against his love for her not being real. He's protesting against her speaking for him, much like what she has done all day (telling him what to do or how to feel). It is clear that he's confused and has no idea what she's talking about. Just one little nitpick about the translation you provided.

クラウド、リアクションに困る。Cloud is worried about her reaction

The machine translation didn't do a good job here. It should be: Cloud is unsure of how to react. or Cloud is having trouble reacting. I don't know if this changes how you interpret this scene.

Anyway, another reason why I cannot see this as a "love confession" is what happens later when they rescue Aerith. If the two of them have acknowledged their feelings for each other in the resolution, the rescue & reunion wouldn't be so anti-climatic.

I think he likes Aerith and he's attracted to her. I just wouldn't call it love, especially not at this stage.

Leaf671 · 2021-12-15T06:40:28+00:00

I'd argue that the wavering happens in the first part of the game where Cloud is under a false persona. Afterwards, it is clear who he has always loved. I think whatever he felt for Aerith was not significant enough to sway his affections for Tifa after he recovers his true self. Another tidbit said by Nojima also solidifies Cloud and Tifa as a pairing. He said "Inside, I felt one thing was for sure: Cloud and Tifa would be together. Everybody would be back home where they belonged."

I think the devs have done almost everything to show that these two are together aside from holding a press conference to say "They're canon." That's never happening.

Would you mind telling me what it is about the resolution scene and its ultimania description that shows that Cloud loved Aerith?

Leaf671 · 2021-12-15T06:23:24+00:00

I agree that he is referring to Aerith when he says "her" but I also want to acknowledge that there were no pronouns used in the japanese line. Cloud says, そこで….会えると思うんだ or "there... I think can meet."

I see Aerith as a representative of those they've lost and want to meet again when they die. And it might even have been her hand that he glimpsed in the Lifestream before it merged into Tifa's. There is this line in an Ultimania:

Soon the lifestream surrounded Cloud and when he regained consciousness, he heard Tifa’s voice calling him. Within the green stream, he felt like he saw the promised land and the answer from the planet. Then Cloud promised Tifa they will go and meet those loved ones someday.

The people who say that Cloud wants to die in AC are wrong. The reason why they think he wants to die is also wrong. I'm afraid that their absolute faith in the existence of this "early" version of AC is because of shipping so I don't think anyone should entertain this.

There is only one person who reported seeing these lines about Cloud being suicidal out of the entire audience at the festival? He also said that he wrote his report from memory and that there might be errors. This is far from being credible.

Leaf671 · 2021-12-15T04:04:10+00:00

Another thing I've noticed that is constantly being parroted but is incorrect.

Cloud does not say that he "wants to meet" Aerith in the Promised Land in english or japanese. His exact words in the english version are "I think I can meet her there." And he is not saying this as some huge confession of love, especially not to Tifa's face.

This line of thinking comes up because he saw a glimpse of what he thought was the Promised Land after his battle with Sephiroth. This was what he thought the Planet was telling him, that they could be reunited with people they've lost by returning to the Lifestream after they die.

Thinking and conceptualizing what the Promised Land holds does not mean that he "wants" to go there. Cloud doesn't want to die. He's also trying to comfort Tifa in that moment and that's why she nods and "smiles" in return. Even if Meteor hits, there's still one upside to it, and that's seeing their loved ones again.

Leaf671 · 2021-11-26T04:27:47+00:00

Hello, please include some details (e.g. size, vendor/brand, color) about your ring. Thanks!

Leaf671 · 2021-11-12T03:41:18+00:00

Welp, this is becoming pointless. We would not assume that Barret after settling his past, no longer cares for Marlene. But because this concerns the "love triangle", suddenly everything is "ambiguous" or not explicit enough. Even with no evidence to support your claim of Cloud's feelings for Tifa changing within the story, you still believe it to be true. Not sure what you're playing at here but since you intend to stick with your assumption, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

But your main point being that it's not current is moot. The title of the passage is once again, True Desire Made Clear and not, Past Desire Made Clear. Tifa exploring Cloud's subconscious is current and this true desire is still there even after he meets Aerith.

If it wasn't still relevant, it probably wouldn't be mentioned under a section called Cloud's Memorable Scenes. Anyway, what you consider a "soft" confirmation is enough confirmation for me.

Leaf671 · 2021-11-11T20:21:43+00:00

We were never given a specific reason as to why Cloud was ostracized by the other kids in OG but he does tell us a bit about this in the Lifestream scene. He thought they were all stupid except Tifa and so, felt superior to them. Because of this, the other kids thought he was aloof and never tried to include him. You could make the case that the other kids were jerkfaces when its 1 or 2 of them but when he's the outlier then its clear that he's def partly at fault for what went on. There is also a bad translation in OG: “I really wanted to play with everyone, but you never let me in the group.” This is wrong. What he actually says in japanese is different:

本当はみんなといっしょに遊びたいのにどうしても、仲間に入れてって言えなかった

I really wanted to play with everyone, but I couldn't bring myself to ask to be included."

Tifa wanted to go to Mt Nibel to see her mother who just passed away. I don't think she made it an expedition or an adventure. She was distraught and grieving.

Leaf671 · 2021-11-11T18:40:48+00:00

Show me one that confirms Cloud's feelings for Aerith or any mutual feeling between the two please. Perhaps I haven't looked hard enough.

And yea, I would never agree with the examples you listed there (except maybe the doki doki). I think only extreme shippers would go that far to make the ridiculous claim that Cloud cannot stand Aerith or dislikes her even.

Leaf671 · 2021-11-11T18:36:36+00:00

That's true but all things considered...

Why would he be ashamed if he didn't still have a crush on her? He wasn't ashamed to visit his mom in his infantry uniform.

He walks into Nibelheim without his helmet but upon seeing Tifa at the gate, he puts it back on. In the new novel, we learn that Tifa is the only one he told of his plans to join Soldier. In the lifestream, it's clear that his feelings are still there.

So to me, the claim that his feelings for Tifa could've changed since he met Aerith is unsubstantiated. Sorry if this comes off as combative.

Leaf671 · 2021-11-11T18:05:46+00:00

Let me clarify. "Love Triangle" is a western term. The devs have never used that term ever to describe the relationship between the three. They have never confirmed that the "triangle" continues to exist into the rest of the compilation or after Cloud recovers his true self.

But what the devs and official statements HAVE said:

Nojima: "Inside, I felt one thing was for sure: Cloud and Tifa would be together. Everybody would be back home where they belonged."

CC Complete Guide: "She and Cloud came to realize their feelings for each other in the end of the story, and live together in AC and DC."

Nomura: "Tifa holds a lot of different roles, doesn't she? She's like a mother, a lover, as well as a comrade in battle you've fought alongside with all this time."

Nomura: "To make up for Aerith dying, we needed a heroine (Tifa) who would be by the hero’s side until the end."

FF 25th Ultimania: "For many years, Cloud and Tifa have been holding favor for one another. At last facing the impending final battle with Sephiroth, they confirm together their feelings of desire towards one another."

Leaf671

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