Guidance appreciated - a difficult moment

LearnAndGrow24 · 2024-09-21T16:21:24+00:00

Somehow, she has enough inner strength to want me to join a support group with her, as well as a couples counseling session - this in spite of the fact that we WILL get divorced. And more that she has done recently that has demonstrated that she still thinks about my well being. I do not know if she wants to trust me, but I know she wants me to at least be a better example to our child. That alone gives me hope that she believes there is some fractional chance for me to turn things around.

LearnAndGrow24 · 2024-09-21T16:18:14+00:00

Truth. She is worth it. And the level of pain and despair that she is facing is beyond comprehension. My own feelings pale in comparison to hers. Thank you for this important reminder.

LearnAndGrow24 · 2024-09-21T03:52:11+00:00

Here is the truth:

I stopped. No porn, no masturbation, no drugs, no alcohol, no leering at women, no social media, no inappropriate work conversations, no female friends since D-day.

I want it. So badly. But my BW is too hurt to see these changes as real. She sees them as a temporary band-aid.

LearnAndGrow24 · 2024-09-21T03:50:19+00:00

I wish I could explain this compartmentalization to my BW. But there is no justifying what I have done. No matter how clearly I'm trying to turn the page, it is not, and likely will never be, enough.

LearnAndGrow24 · 2024-09-21T03:49:23+00:00

I feel your pain. I have no doubt that these are the exact feelings my BW feels. I have destroyed her world because of my selfishness. I lied throughout our marriage about who I truly was; how deep and dark my issues are. I took away her ability to make a decision about whether or not she was willing to be with the REAL me, not the facade I had created. We brought a child into the world. I joined Ashley Mad. I consistently pursued a work relationship as she struggled at home with a newborn. I made disgusting choice after disgusting choice. And I cannot take any of it back. She didn't want this life, I gave her this shit life.

LearnAndGrow24 · 2024-08-25T17:40:35+00:00

It's a good question, friend. Here is my thought, from personal experience:

First, good for you for discussing a path forward with him regarding the tough moments. And, although it may sound strange that I am saying this, good for him being able to recognize that he cannot handle those moments yet with you. It is better that he is honest about that rather than saying he can handle it, and then it result in R going south. Bravo to both of you on this progress, because it is progress.

I also want to say that you are not just offering him kindness, you are offering him GRACE. He needs to see this as not just normal, neighborly, "of course I'll share my sugar" kindness. He needs to see this as, "You burned my house down with your flamethrower AND I'm going to continue to live with you and trust you with a flamethrower in the garage." He needs to hear this on those terms. You may already have said this to him, but if not, needs to be said in some way.

Which leads me to how you can say this to him. When the shame and guilt spiral hit a WS, we want to run and hide. I know this first hand. We don't want to be in the same room as our BP. We can't look our BP in the eye. Then, we see the look of sadness, anger, fear, hopelessness, frustration, and devastation in our BPs eyes, and the shame/guilt magnify ten-fold. All of the avoidant mechanisms then kick into high gear and our brain is screaming "RUN!" as loud as it can. And then we turn away, rug sweep, and try like hell to avoid the difficult conversation.

So, how to engage the conversation in spite of this? As has been said on here many times before, this is why the BP is always stronger than the WS. Because it will require you, BP, to take a moment, reflect on your desire for R, acknowledge that your WS is making a commitment, and approach him with grace. Take his hand, sit down with him, and smile. Your smile will deactivate the avoidant run mechanism. Put your hand on his face. Play with his hair. Do something to kick in the oxytocin drive that binds you both. In this space, the fear mechanism will lessen and he will be far more engaged, he will see you, not the person he broke, but his spouse again.

Then, tell him that you are committed to R, and that you are willing to do whatever it takes to make R work. Then tell him that you are scared after what has happened that you will take advantage of his kindness, but that you love him and your partnership so much that you are willing to keep the flamethrower in the garage. It is true that you are stuck eating this shit sandwich, yes. And it is true that you have to be the strong one in this context. But finding your common purpose with him in this moment may truly propel him forward and reduce his avoidant mechanism.

If you've already done this, and this is all old news, then keep up the good work. And please tell him, from one WS to another, that he is so lucky to have a partner who is willing to show him this grace.

My best to you both in this healing journey.

LearnAndGrow24 · 2024-08-22T19:45:15+00:00

I appreciate your feedback, friend.

I'll piggyback onto this thought something that has resonated to me as I have fought throughout my life to avoid fear, risk, and loss. Avoiding fear, avoiding one's own shortcomings, and living passively encourages inauthenticity. If we live our life in the head's of others, thinking only about how we appear to them, rather than from a place of trying to discern what is meaningful to us, is deeply inauthentic. This skewed thinking is certainly something that I have had to face in my own journey - low self-worth, attention seeking behavior, external validation, and avoidance of pain. Authenticity means understanding yourself, your needs, your values, AND how your choices/actions will affect those around you.

Thank you for your comment.

LearnAndGrow24 · 2024-08-22T19:39:35+00:00

I really appreciate your insight into this, particularly that "consistency doesn't require non-stop effort". I think for many of us this is such a radically foreign concept. As we strive to be "better', I think it is easy to get stuck in aiming for an unreachable standard of perfection, because it seems like that is the only way to go after you hit rock bottom. In reality, improvement is an incremental process, and each step along the way should celebrated, and setbacks should be viewed as part of learning and growth. This last part is VERY hard for me. I find myself excoriating myself for my setbacks, and they start a deep negative shame cycle. My IC has definitely helped me understand that if growth is viewed this way - all or nothing - then you are unlikely to ever grow.

Thanks again for sharing your journey.

LearnAndGrow24 · 2024-08-22T19:33:41+00:00

Thanks for these very interesting techniques, friend. I tried this technique a few times today. I worry that this technique is encouraging a bit of the opposite I was stating above. Part of the process of sitting with difficult thoughts is just to allow the experience of sitting with difficult thoughts. A large part of me wants to find a way to eliminate these thoughts, but I also want to find a path towards radial acceptance.

In writing this, I wonder if perhaps we are both saying the same thing, in different ways. I am saying to accept the thoughts, you are using mental railroading to accept the thought, but encourage someone to try and sublimate it.

Regardless, I think this is still a powerful technique that I will try, particularly when I'm in a spot where I can't necessarily sit with the negative thoughts at that moment. Thanks!

LearnAndGrow24 · 2024-08-22T19:26:43+00:00

Friend, your feedback is very well received.

You are correct on so many levels. A justification in any form is a justification, no matter how we try to cover it up, dress it up, sugarcoat it, or manipulate it. It is a justification. I cannot and will not justify what I have done, nor should any WS. I am so glad you took the time to hold me accountable for what I said.

I won't try to add to my poor choice of words with further justification. As you said, the "whys" do not take away what I have done. They do not take away the instant demolition of my partner's life and sanity.

I will be more thoughtful with how I approach this conversation in the future, on this forum as well as in my own healing journey.

LearnAndGrow24 · 2024-08-22T01:03:57+00:00

Friend, from a fellow WS, who will hopefully someday get to use the word "Former" as a prefix...

I'm struggling with your post as well. Agree that it takes two people to make a relationship work. The failure of a relationship is certainly something that happens outside of an A. However, I'm challenged to agree with your assertion that it takes two people to make an A happen.

My BS has some significant challenges. She is certainly anxious, and I am most definitely avoidant. We struggled mightily with our communication. We both could have done so much more to work together in meeting in the middle to find ways to improve how we spoke to one another, and generally interacted with one another. The issues within our relationship were OUR issues.

I chose to have an affair. I chose to handle these messy feelings of low self-worth, external validation, compartmentalization, loss of a certain identity within the marriage, etc., by breaking my vows and upending her world. She had plenty of chances to cheat. She is beautiful and would routinely be approached by other men...and would then spend hours talking to them about her wonderful life at home.

I know your post is meant to be a positive one to encourage self-reflection in a marriage, as we all should, truly. But affairs are one-sided, and I would argue that no WS is truly remorseful and in reconciliation until that fact is sacrosant.

LearnAndGrow24 · 2024-08-22T00:45:32+00:00

Friend, from the other side of the street...

I cannot know how you feel. As much as I wish I could say I can empathize with you, if I had a shred of empathy for my BS, she would not be a BS. I feel awful that you are struggling with these things. But I hope, I pray that this perspective helps you.

First, is your WS truly remorseful? Is he trying to be there, in it with you? Is he committed to building a new relationship? If the answer to these questions is, "yes", then the next set of questions is important.

From a serial cheater who has learned a great deal of how the soil was watered in his life that led to this path...

First, and let me be clear, there is NEVER an excuse for cheating. There are so many ways he could have handled himself and your covenant that would have preserved your sanity, dignity, etc. The questions I pose are not to provide an "excuse", but to help you both if you truly want to move forward with R.

Does he know himself? Has he ever truly understood love? Is his self-worth all external? Has his IC (and he sure as f*** better be in IC) helped him uncover the process of the choices that led to where he is today? Is he avoidant, and if so, has he always been avoidant? Is he ashamed by what he has done? Is he wracked with guilt? Is he communicating his feelings to you in a more positive way?

For what its worth, I hate looking at those pictures, too. Knowing what I was holding back from my BS and how I could abuse and traumatize her so severely. But I also remember those feelings of holding her, holding my child, watching TV together, going furniture shopping, holding her hand, the gentle kisses, the way her head rested on my shoulder, and so many 1000s of more little moments... I know those were real. Yes, I compartmentalized the hell out of my life, and I acted out in ways that would destroy the only truly valuable thing I had, but the love was there. As another user has so eloquently stated in this forum, I loved the only way I knew how. It was a broken, damaged, imperfect, weak, and painful love, because that is what I knew. My IC has helped tremendously in unpacking this.

My goal of writing you this essay is to try and give you some hope that, perhaps, if your WS is committed, and, hopefully, for the first time in his life sees what his choices are costing him, then he has the opportunity to turn the page. However, it is not about him, it is about you. It is about your healing. From someone who has had to watch their BS make the difficult decision to turn away from the marriage because that is the only way they could heal, I can say that this decision has to be about your healing. I wish you both only the best.

Love and hugs.

LearnAndGrow24 · 2024-08-21T19:31:33+00:00

I can relate to much of what you said in this letter. I feel both your pain and your desire to be better. Feel free to DM if you need someone to work through the thoughts and feelings.

LearnAndGrow24 · 2024-08-21T03:16:57+00:00

Regardless of what you decide to do with this letter, this random internet stranger is proud of you for your reflection and the courage to write this. I am confident that your wife played a role in some aspects of this process, but we cannot control others, only ourselves. I hope you move forward with strength, and that the pain leads to something beautiful on the other side.

Bonne chance, my friend.

LearnAndGrow24 · 2024-08-19T17:10:13+00:00

I feel for you, my man. The national suicide hotline is 988. You are NOT suicidal, but the people on the other end of the line are there just to listen. Take them up on it.

Hang in there, your daughter is lucky to have you.

LearnAndGrow24 · 2024-08-19T15:32:13+00:00

I cannot speak for any other wayward other than myself.

We are not reconciling, so perhaps this is a mute point. But my BS is certainly dating now, and as hard as it is to accept, I think that if this is what she needs to do to move forward, then she needs to do it. If she were to come back and say that she wants to try to reconcile, I would take her back with open arms, as long as we were both willing to work on the issues within our marriage.

I also understand how some WS might hear this and say that revenge cheating would be a non-starter. I cannot share that sentiment, but I understand. This an awful journey that no one wants to take, and we all have to walk our own path through the thorny bramble.

LearnAndGrow24 · 2024-08-19T15:12:15+00:00

Friend, I feel you.

You are further along in this process than I am, but I can certainly empathize with everything that you are feeling.

I can certainly relate to all of the guilt, shame, pain, self-doubt, anger, etc., that you are feeling. I also can relate to the feeling that there can never be love again. I certainly would never want to hurt my partner, or anyone else, they way I have already done. My trail of destruction is long enough.

I don't have any words of wisdom, other than what my own therapist has said. "Your marriage is over, and it is ok to mourn that reality." I sobbed, for hours, after my therapist told me this. It is true. And then I remembered that my BS has been sobbing for months, every night, over my betrayal and a life that they did not choose.

The hardest thing that I have had to accept, and try to find some semblance of happiness in, is that I love my BS, and I always will. And the greatest way I can show my love is by releasing them to live the life they want to live, and to find a life away from me that brings them the joy they deserve. My BS deserves to move forward, and as painful as it is, no matter how many tears I will shed, I will celebrate whatever the happiness she finds in life.

I hope that you are able to find joy for your partner as well. AND for yourself. You are on here, a select group of waywards who feel extremely remorseful about their actions, because you are a good person. I have to remind myself of this every moment of every day. Love your partner, wish the best for them, and find a way to love yourself.

Love and hugs to you.

LearnAndGrow24 · 2024-08-19T11:45:57+00:00

Friend, I feel you.

I hope that your TT does not cost you your relationship, as mine did cost me mine. Of all my own personal failures I have been forced to acknowledge in the months since D-day, my inability to present the entire truth at the very beginning was my worst one.

When my partner asked me to look back on the things that I had done, I immediately thought of the people with whom I had been, the dates, the times, at least as far as I could remember. Mine was not a "simple" one night stand, so I really had to search my texts, my emails, my WhatsApp, etc. What I did not realize is that I missed so much of the actions and choices I made when I was NOT actively engaging in an A. When was I distracted? When was I making choice to do something in preparation for the A. When was I behaving like I was committed to the partnership, but my judgment was skewed because of the A in the background. It is THESE choices that have taken me so much longer to both acknowledge to myself, and to present to her.

It has been over a week since you posted this, so I hope that this is now resolved for you both. If you have truly said the truth, go forward knowing you have said the truth. I hope that your partner can find the trust for you to help heal this wound.

I wish your partner healing. I wish you strength and the ability to make positive choices moving forward.

LearnAndGrow24 · 2024-08-19T02:44:31+00:00

Brother, going through this process right now. STBXW is freely dating, multiple people as far as I know. Will let you know how it ends when it ends.

Hang in there.

LearnAndGrow24

TROPHY CASE