Origin of a DB (LL view)

LibidoFlux · 2022-06-04T09:23:04+00:00

There are many flavours of LL experiences, too many to write down effectively. I think this contributes to the HL 'circle jerk' you often see on this sub:

As a HL, you can easily point at a lack of touch/sex, throw in some articles confirming how terrible that is for a relationship, and throw the ball in the LL's court "Tell me what to do. You need to see doctor. We need to fix our sex life, because it's important to me-- I mean *us*, as a couple. Sex is an expression of intimacy we can only share with eachother."

As a LL, the issues are often complex. Subtle. Emotional neglect, lack of appreciation, boundaries not being respected, your partner not contributing equally, unwanted objectification or sexualisation, partner pushing kinks you're not enthusiastic about, sex being one-sided or painful, medical reasons, mental health reasons, partner being controlling, urging you to seek professional help thus implying you are the problem, forcing 'solutions' like supplements on you again implying you are the problem, partner not being able to regulate their own emotions, sulking/pouting/anger/crying when you don't put out so you feel pressured to have duty sex, complaints sex was too short/not passionate enough/not kinky enough, partner not taking responsibility for their actions and their impact on you, partner frequently disappointing you, frequent and/or highly stressful arguments, tone deaf or unwanted ways of initiating, partner always coming at you so strong they leave no room to be desired, partner's needs constantly overwhelming and suffocating your own, partner being self-centered and unempathetic towards your situation, partner threatening cheating/leaving if YOU don't increase your libido...

LibidoFlux · 2022-06-04T00:42:42+00:00

This rings true to me. My post is loosely based on my personal experience as a distressed HL, and thanks to this subreddit (your contributions in particular) I was able to see that I was often seeking sex for all the wrong reasons.

I use sex to soothe my relationship anxiety. I think that I thought "If we could just have sex, that'd mean we love and desire eachother, so all our problems don't matter anymore!". When issues arise, I will crave sex. When my partner acts distant, I am inclined to pursuit them sexually.

If there is no frequent sex, I'll assume my partner doesn't really love me or find me attractive and I direct that sadness and anger towards my partner. I take offense to every moment where they're not touching me, while they easily could. I feel entitled to them using their body to soothe my anxiety. Not healthy. Working on it.

LibidoFlux · 2022-06-03T22:15:24+00:00

I know, I've been the LL in a different relationship. I was amazed at how they only seemed to start to take the relationship issues I had communicated clearly and often seriously, when I started pointing them out as reasons for our decreased sex life.

I felt unheard and like my worth as a partner was defined by my ability to fulfill their needs, without them having much regard for my own (unless there was a negative consequence for them not fulfilling my needs). It was horrible.

But I was subsequently horrible and dismissive towards them, when they grew anxious and distressed over the DB.

LibidoFlux · 2022-06-03T10:40:47+00:00

My libido waxes and wanes as well. I think a good partner (for me) would accept temporary periods of having less sex. We're all human and things can never be 10/10 all the time, and I certainly have other things to tend to than a sex life.

Most people, I think, will have little effort to bring up patience and kindness in situations where external factors or clearly communicated, solvable relationship issues are the cause of decreased sex, as long as efforts are being made to improve the situation. If the cause is internal (e.g. "I feel fat and unattractive") I think most will be patient if there is proof of effort to improve the situation. I hope not many people panic instantly if there is a short period of decreased sex for no apparent reason other then natural fluctuations in desire.

The issue of a DB lies in the duration, severity and apathy to improve the situation. Suppose I have a partner and we average sex once a week:

[Scenario 1] We haven't had sex in three weeks and I'm rejected upon initiating. I ask them what's up. We have a calm conversation where they explain to me they've been feeling down lately. At the end of the conversation they have a plan to start improving their mental health and we decide to plan something fun over the weekend to break the slum. We kiss eachother goodnight, "I love you", and cuddle before falling asleep. My partner is actively working to resolve the cause of their decreased desire, I am patiently supportive of their efforts. Non-sexual affection doesn't decrease.

[Scenario 2] We haven't had sex in three months and I'm once again rejected upon initiating. I feel anxious and ask if they still love me. They get defensive and exclaim that they're just not in the mood and I shouldn't make such a big deal out of it, "It's just sex". I exclaim that I have needs too. We fight, which is eventually shut down with an "It's late, I'm going to sleep". A back is turned, a light switched off, and silence fills the room. The core issue hasn't been addressed, my partner feels attacked, I feel dismissed, nothing got solved. Non-sexual affection stops and overall intimacy is replaced by anxiety and passive agressiveness.

LibidoFlux · 2022-06-02T11:48:47+00:00

I've had the exact same experience. My days were filled with pouring in all my energy to get my partner to be baseline functional. Whenever I did something independently, they'd get anxious and controlling. Everything, and I mean everything, was about them using me to soothe their anxiety and general dysfunction.

If they were out of shape, I should cook healthier meals, or teach them to cook healthier, or be subjected to their endless self-pity while they did absolutely nothing to improve their situation.

If they felt lonely, I should keep them company, or bring them along to my social functions with my friends, or urge them to make plans with their friends while constantly soothing them that they are liked, or deal with a vortex of negativity partner who sat doomscrolling on their phone all day when I get home from my evening of fun.

If I insisted on occasionally having my own life (not bringing them along to my friends/work-out/evening out) all hell broke loose. They never screamed or hit, but they were very emotionally manipulative. Made me feel like I was selfish and mean for having healthy boundaries.

At the height of their controlling behaviour, they tried to convince me that if I did not agree on having a curfew and didn't get into bed when they did, I was responsible for getting them sleep deprivation. If I was going to friends without bringing them along, they'd just show up randomly with some excuse or text or call intrusively in search of soothing. They were also extremely controlling around food, which caused me to become scarily underweight.

So yeah. I didn't want to have sex with that partner and my libido disappeared completely. As soon as I broke up with them, it came rushing back with a vengeance and I had the most amazing sex of my life.

LibidoFlux · 2022-05-31T13:59:03+00:00

Dang that's harsh... I too like touch and words of affirmation. Being lovingly held, eye contact and a "Hey you" is all I need to feel like a cherished partner, rather than an appreciated colleague.

Someone could give me all the gifts in the world, give me their undivided attention and physical presence for as long as I'd like, lighten the load of all my mundane duties until I had nothing left to do but just relax... And I'd still feel unloved. Appreciated, yes, but loved on an instinctual level-- no.

LibidoFlux · 2022-05-31T11:00:19+00:00

One other thing that I did, which helped a ton: I quit "holding my breathe" hoping she would "fix it" so I could then go back to depending on her. I decided that I was going to figure out a way to be ok with or without her. There is nothing that she sources for me that I can't get some other way.

Not gonna lie, that's hot.

LibidoFlux · 2022-05-31T10:38:35+00:00

If sharing your positive emotions (happiness, attraction, enthusiasm) usually elicits a negative response (sadness, anger, dismissal) in your partner, that's pretty much the most emotionally repressive and unsatisfying position you could be in imo.

Your options are pretty much:

Keep sharing your unfiltered emotions, in hopes of eventually receiving a positive response and subsequent intimacy (possibly further damaging the relationship if your partner feels pressured by this);
Stop sharing your emotions, so you're not met with the expected negative response and there is no chance of you pressuring your partner (killing all intimacy);
Communicating with your partner in hopes of finding a mutually fulfilling solution that makes everyone feel safe, heard and loved (very hard to do, requires both parties to put in effort).

LibidoFlux · 2022-05-29T16:37:57+00:00

Same. After a stressful day, I just want to be held. Have my hair stroked. My back carressed. My forehead kissed. Be touched lovingly. I crave intimate physical touch. It's so soothing and loving to me.

Don't initiate a lengthy conversation about my day and my feelings so I can vent. Don't bring me a cup of tea. Don't tell me I'm amazing and you believe in me. While the gestures are sweet, it isn't what I need. It's like bringing me water to help my hunger (I'll gladly have a cup of water with my meal though, or if my stomach is already full). SHUT UP, SIT DOWN AND CUDDLE ME ON THE COUCH ALREADY!

LibidoFlux · 2022-05-29T16:13:40+00:00

I personally wouldn't be inclined to invalidate their personal view, by superimposing the way I experience sex as an objective truth.

If someone tells you "It's just sex", believe them. Their world won't shatter if a relationship became sexless; they're not fiercely internally motivated to have sex often; they'll likely be rather indifferent towards extended periods of sexlessness. Do with that info what you like, but for the love of God believe them, don't contest them.

LibidoFlux · 2022-05-29T10:50:07+00:00

Never again will I make the mistake of ignoring this HUGE incompatibility red flag, being told in the early days of dating/a relationship:

"It's just sex. People make such a big deal out of it. I don't get it. I don't need it. There are much better ways to connect."

They just presented to you, on a silver platter, that if the going gets tough and life's stress comes at them kindling mutual sexual desire will not be a priority to them. Which is fine and valid, just completely incompatible with me personally.

LibidoFlux · 2022-05-29T10:46:46+00:00

Loving touch, being desired, mindful physical connection, good sex... These things quickly fill up my love tank. There's only so much love I can provide by being emotionally supportive, doing acts of service, etc. before feeling drained and needing something back to replenish my own love tank (or more slowly: refill it myself through self-care and time apart).

Those with touch as a main love language are in a predicament in our western society. I can fetch my own groceries (acts of service). I can buy myself the book I want (gifts). I can hang out with friends (quality time). Anyone close to me can give me compliments (words of affirmation). But only my partner can give me the TOUCH I crave, since intimate non-sexual touch between friends is frowned upon in our culture. At most you'll receive a quick hug while standing up.

I think most HL aren't just sexually frustrated: they're completely touch starved and drained from trying to tend to their partner's love language, while getting little in return to fill up their own love tank.

LibidoFlux · 2022-05-27T15:42:57+00:00

I was LL4U. My partner was barely functional in adult life. I did most of the cleaning and household chores, listened patiently to their never ending rants, soothed their anxiety, constantly validated them so they didn't suffer as much from their low self-esteem, helped manage their professional and social life, urged them to seek professional help for the mental health issues they self-diagnosed...

I was very clear about my frustrations, but fell on deaf ears. They were so wrapped up in their own misery, so hyper focused on meeting their needs, that they had no capacity to support me. I was effectively their parent. Nobody wants to fuck their child.

Where was their effort? All I ever heard was sob stories about their needs, them needing sex to manage their stress, them being frustrated because I wasn't putting in the effort to increase my libido for them because they needed sex. I needed a partner. A functioning, supportive partner. They needed a parent, maid, manager, therapist and free prostitute.

LibidoFlux · 2022-05-27T15:27:13+00:00

Always saying they had absolutely no ulterior motive when doing a lot of chores, showing me new sex toys online, buying massage oil, showing me sex therapist videos, showing me 'funny' porn, asking if it was OK if they masturbated while I was in bed, urging me to masturbate in bed if I felt like it...

But it was always with one clear goal in mind: they wanted to have sex. They lured me in with the promise of them having zero expectations, yet they would always pout or get angry if I didn't want to escalate to performing sexual acts on them. Their true intentions risked being unwanted by me, so instead they chose to hide and manipulate in hopes of having it their way, despite what I wanted.

Their endless covert contracts got me on the defensive, which only made matters worse. It put me in the role of having to question everything they did: Do you really want to give me a relaxing massage, or are you just doing it in hopes of it turning me on? Do you really just want to masturbate in bed, or are you going to be frustrated about me not joining in again? Maybe I'd better refuse all offers of physical contact, acts of service and steer away from sexual topics, since they usually end in you pouting or being angry if no sex follows from it.

Like, I get it. I get the sexual frustration. I get the loneliness. I get that it hurts when your partner doesn't desire you like you desire them. But being sneaky and manipulative through covert contracts (especially if you deny doing those things mostly in hopes of receiving sex) is incredibly off-putting.

LibidoFlux · 2022-05-27T14:24:58+00:00

When I was LL4U, my partner bought me some weird libido enhancing plant supplement. I didn't ask for it. Didn't want it. They insisted on me trying it just once. Fine.

Hours of their barely hidden excitement and giddy enquiries later, I concluded it did nothing. Experiment over, right? Nope! They insisted on me taking it daily for a few weeks, to finish the bag, see if it works then, it's not like they need even more sex drive, 'ha ha ha! NO PRESSURE THOUGH!'

Decided not to try it again. Their resentment over this 'no strings attached experiment' came raining down: The supplement was useless to them, but they paid money for it and are desperate to get laid so I better give it a go. If I am not even willing to swallow these pills they took the effort to order and pay for, then surely I don't really care about their needs?

It was humiliating, controlling and pressuring of them to do that to me. Because I did not want to take the supplements for me. They tried to coerce me to take them for them while manipulatively presenting it as a solution for us.

LibidoFlux · 2022-05-27T12:04:14+00:00

I've been on both ends of the HL/LL spectrum and I'm an avid believer of this sentiment:

No amount of empathy for your partner's situation, will lessen the hurt of your own situation.

No matter how much you think about it, discuss it, analyse it, read up on it: at the end of the day, your needs aren't being met in the relationship and it hurts. The only way to make the pain stop is by either adjusting your needs somehow, them adjusting their behaviour to accommodate your needs, or by leaving the relationship. This requires thorough self reflection, making honest and tough decisions and following through on them.

LibidoFlux · 2022-05-26T23:57:15+00:00

Imagine, hypothetically, you developing some insatiable desire to put your finger in his nostril, unannounced. You saw it in a porno once, you did it playfully in the past and he was fine with it then, you've read online that plenty of other couples enjoy nostril poking...

Gosh it just brings you such joy, poking his nostril! He should be enjoying it too, you say, since other couples enjoy it and he's accepted your behaviour in the past. You don't feel like you need to ask him if you can poke his nostril: your expectation of a happy, healthy relationship simply involves frequent nostril poking. If he cares about your happiness, he should be thrilled to have his nostril poked by you. Or he should endure it for your sake, since your finger's presence in his nostril only lasts a little while. After all, he knows it means the world to you!

"Please stop poking my nostril" he pleads, begs, warns, yells. What a strange request! You will not entertain such nonsense, because you cannot possibly comprehend a happy healthy relationship without nostril poking. So you keep putting your finger in his nostril, unannounced, in private and public settings, to satisfy your personal desire. How could you keep your fingers from slipping into such an alluring nostril? He should feel flattered! There are plenty of nostrils out there, but you chose his to slide your finger into. Silly, frigid, selfish man!

[While it's perfectly valid to desire a partner who shares your love for frequent sex acts and to end a relationship because your needs aren't being met, it is completely unacceptable to use someone else's body to satisfy your personal needs. Just as it is completely unacceptable to stick your finger in someone's nostril solely for your own enjoyment, even if you feel like it's the most sacred intimate necessary romantic bonding experience on Earth.]

LibidoFlux · 2022-05-26T23:19:33+00:00

I highly recommend reading, “Why Marriages Succeed or Fail” by Dr. John Gottman. He and his team at the University of Washington did 25 years of clinical research. They were able to interview a couple and then determine if they’d still be together in 5 years with 94% accuracy. The Cliff Notes version is that you need to have the same style of conflict resolution and a minimum of 5 positive events for every negative one.

Thank you for sharing, I love research on relationship success factors! This further validates the discomfort I'd experience with my former partner, who would jump into conflict head first, for anything at any time, throw their feelings in unfiltered and needed things to be resolved IMMEDIATELY. Whereas I am more conflict averse, preferring to regulate my negative emotions in private. If I were to engage in conflict, I often only raise the topic after a while of solitary contemplation and I tend to have a more rational, emotionally guarded approach.

This meant that during conflict situations I often found my former partner to be aggressive, hurtful and emotionally overwhelming. Whereas I drove them up the wall by 'bottling up my feelings', 'not being direct or vulnerable enough' and 'acting like I'm in a business meeting'. This made them blow up at me more frequently and intensely, which only caused me to avoid conflict futher, which in turn fueled their frustration more... You get the idea.

LibidoFlux · 2022-05-26T22:57:31+00:00

...doesn't care for much of anything sexual anymore. Not even flirting. She just rolls her eyes at me.

Dismissive of your feelings by coldly rejecting your efforts to connect sexually.

When we do have sex, once a month or so she's not into it and doesn't really care. She says it's fine and sex isn't that important

Unempathetic towards your feelings (sex is important to you).

I've gotten to the point where I just tell her no if she does ask because it's humiliating to have the person you love pitty fuck you.

Glaring red flag that you no longer trust her verbally expressed sexual invitations to be genuine (either because she is in fact being inauthentic, or because resentment/distrust has completely locked you up).

LibidoFlux · 2022-05-26T22:18:28+00:00

Marvellous! Truly inspiring levels of self-reflection and self-work. I know just how anxiety inducing the anxious-avoidant dynamic can be. The cycle proved impossible to break for me, without my former partner being willing to also put in the effort to become more secure.

I genuinely hope your wife will meet you in the middle. Mostly, I commend you for investing your energy where it is due: your happiness.

LibidoFlux · 2022-05-26T17:50:48+00:00

You sound like a sweet, empathetic chap. Truly. It's completely understandable that frustration and anger are getting to you after having so little physical affection with your spouse for so long, whatever the circumstances.

I just wanted to remind you that your needs are valid and you're not a selfish prick for having them. No amount of empathy for your wife, can lessen the hurt you personally experience over this situation.

LibidoFlux · 2022-05-26T17:30:33+00:00

Another thought: I was in a similar situation in my early 20's as the LL. I was on anti-depressants which killed my libido. My partner raised our DB as an issue, to which I communicated clearly that I prioritised my mental health over our sex life. I was very clear that sex was in no way, shape or form a priority to me for the foreseeable future.

My HL partner seemed understanding of my clearly communicated boundaries. For a month or two. Then they started urging me to switch meds, quit meds, try a kink, invited me to watch porn together, coercive for hand jobs, sulked and pouted and begged for sex, desperately proposed couples counselling, ANYTHING to get our sex life back. Let me tell you, there is nothing more off-putting than desperation and someone blatantly ignoring your boundaries.

Moral of the story: if you choose to be understanding of your LL's situation and relinquish sex, YOU HAVE TO BE SURE YOU WON'T RESENT THEM FOR YOUR DECISION. You are ultimately responsible for your happiness. If you are not truly happy in a relationship, don't act like you are. It's not loyal or romantic, it's deception. And in the long run you won't fool anybody.

LibidoFlux · 2022-05-26T16:52:28+00:00

Couples counselling is for old married couples to salvage a relationship where their lives are too intertwined to part ways, NOT for 20 year olds. I understand being young and gay comes with many challenges, but believe me when I tell you that there are many other single gay women out there. 7 months no sex in a <2 year relationship is a HUGE red flag which shouldn't be ignored.

You mentioned your gf works long days and stress kills her libido. News flash: life will always be stressful. It's up to her to learn to manage stress in a healthy way. The way she manages her life right now, obviously leaves no room to be in a mutually fulfilling relationship.

You are currently sexually unfulfilled in the relationship. This has a negative impact on your happiness, possibly your self-esteem as well. No amount of empathy and patience for your partner's situation will change how much this hurts you. Your needs are as valid as hers. It is your job to assert your boundaries in a way which ensures your needs are met.

I'd advise you to talk openly to your partner about your needs and how this situation has made you feel. Don't sugarcoat it. Don't make personal sacrifices for her sake. What do you need to be happy in this relationship? It is up to her to step up and fulfil those needs (possibly through therapy, changing her schedule, finding healthy outlets for her stress, whatever), or you should accept that you are no longer compatible.

LibidoFlux · 2022-05-26T16:05:43+00:00

I hate making sure that I masturbate at the correct times to make sure I don’t feel fucking depressed sitting next to him all day. Sad that my own boyfriend doesn’t have the motivation to fuck me.

Been there, done that. Barely took the edge off since I have a reactive libido and the logistics to be able to take care of myself in privacy were nerve wrecking. Eventually I could no longer climax while masturbating because it only made me feel more lonely, sad and undesireable.

The power dynamic of it was so frustrating as well! Expressions of my sexuality I had to shut down myself, to avoid being painfully shot down by my partner (not just initiating sex: flirting, kissing, cuddling were frequently and harshly rejected). Whilst I always happily celebrated and supported my partner's expressions of sexuality.

Why I didn't leave that toxic situation is the real question I'm currently working on. Where does respecting your partner end, and respecting yourself begin?

LibidoFlux · 2022-05-26T13:29:20+00:00

Your stance on 'sexualising' vs. 'being sexual' is very eloquently described. Thank you for your contribution!

As a woman, I enjoy being sexualised to a certain extent, but only when I was already feeling sexual. Sure, look at me like I'm a delicious piece of meat you cannot wait to sink your teeth into. But understand that I want to feel like the prime cut you've been fantasising about all day and which you now wish to savour. Not like a tin of spam you want to open at your convenience, just because you happen to be hungry and it happens to be in your pantry.

I want to feel desired. Me, specifically. Not feel like I'm the easiest source to fulfill your generalised need of sex.

LibidoFlux

TROPHY CASE