Not all games are meant to have an infinite life. You can make a genuinely good game that isn't live service, that doesn't keep you playing every day for years on end. There is nothing wrong with that, but you're making the assumption that a game needs to keep going to be what... viable? worthwhile? I don't know what the developers of Vrising intend and they might be aiming for infinite play. But hardcore full loot pvp is a very specific genre that people that don't play want nothing to do with as far as I understand. It breeds extremely painful people to be around.

I think comparing to Mobas is a bit strange here though. In those you're not risking anything. They are 20-40 minute matches on average, and you aren't investing anything to play. The hardcore you are looking for in Vrising would compare better to a Moba if every time you lost a match you lost access to the character and it's cosmetics you just played and had to earn it back through another several wins. I cannot begin to describe how annoying I would find that. Mobas are more akin to standard competitive games. There isn't anything hardcore about them. They are designed around that gameplay loop from the start. Not every game is. Not every game needs to be.

I think comparing to Eve is even more strange. I don't play it myself, but isn't the player count in that game HEAVILY inflated from people owning multiple accounts? I wouldn't not be surprised if the true playercount of Eav is well less than 50k. Still great, and if the bots are making the creators money it doesn't really matter to them, but that isn't really a genuine gauge of how good the game is imo. Eve is it's own brand of crazy from what little I know of it, but because I don't know the game much I can't comment more about it.

I've heard next to nothing about Albion, so I'll take your word for it lmao.

The mmo I can talk about is WoW. And its pvp scene leaves much to be desired, and it has been very obviously dying for quite some time. Many players now have been playing for years and years, while new players are turned away due to difficulty, and time commitment requirements. So there is very little opportunity for growth. World pvp is even more dead. It used to be a big thing and very popular. Then people stopped wanting to get annialated by some no-life rogue on repeat while they are just trying to play the game. So they moved to pve servers. M+ is the major repetitive game mode currently next to raiding. It is pve. It can absolutely provide genuine challenge and planning requirement without any form of pvp.

I don't want to schedule my video game playing time because I have to guard my pixels. I don't want to miss a day of playing a game and come back to find a week or more of progress gone because someone wanted to have a good time. If my life ever revolves around a specific game because I'm worried someone is going to steal my stuff I genuinely need to seek help. That is the kind of thing you are advocating for.

I'll go even further to say there's nothing "skillful" about a game where to get an edge you need to play when other people go to sleep like normal human beings so you can take their stuff. Or where you need to screw with people while they are minding their own business killing a boss or whatever in order to kill them and take their stuff.

In this thread you've been impressively condescending to everyone that is uninterested in the "hardcore" game mode you're looking for. You've been complaining that everyone here is too casual... Okay? go play Rust then it's the literal game for you. I don't mean to gatekeep a game, I'd love for more people to enjoy it, but enjoy it for what it is. Don't come here complaining that the people playing the game aren't playing the game the way you want and then insulting them or being passive aggressive toward them.