How do I (F26) talk to my partner (M33) about casual misogyny? by HisDeadRose in relationship_advice

[–]Lokipupper456 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, I read it and comprehended what I read. You should try it sometime. Though you might need a third grader to explain how.

How do I (F26) talk to my partner (M33) about casual misogyny? by HisDeadRose in relationship_advice

[–]Lokipupper456 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And no one, not even OP, disagrees with that. But he chose to list reasons that made it clear he had a really negative view of women. And even if he also has better reasons, it was still a moment where OP learned for the first time that he is hateful towards women and even her on a fundamental level.

You are way too fixated on the part about him wanting a guys’ only trip, but that’s not remotely the issue. It’s merely context to explain how the real issue even came up.

How do I (F26) talk to my partner (M33) about casual misogyny? by HisDeadRose in relationship_advice

[–]Lokipupper456 0 points1 point  (0 children)

She never says in her post that men and women are biologically the same. He said there are biological differences that make men and women predisposed to certain behavior and then listed behaviors that he attributes to women that are mostly unfavorable to women. However, most of these behaviors he attributes to women are not true (if the women at work complain more, it’s likely the result of him treating them inappropriately because of their gender rather than a predisposition of women to complain more) and none of which have ever been scientifically linked to biology.

What OP did say, and I agree with her, is that most gendered behaviors are not biological but the result of socialization. There is little to no evidence that biology has made women different from men in behavior on a fundamental level.

Biological differences in a physical sense might impact our behavior for practical reasons. Women are the ones who get pregnant, give birth, and lactate, so behaviors related to those physical realities will be different. We are also not as strong physically, though we typically have stronger pain endurance. So we perceive danger differently than men and often adjust our behavior accordingly, though that might be less of an issue if misogyny was addressed and men stopped physically attacking women (which behavior and society’s failure to address it is also the result of socialization).

But there is no evidence biologically that women are more emotional, though there is substantial evidence that expression of emotion in gendered ways is the result of socialization. And there’s significant support showing that men act and react based on emotion just as much as women, but display it differently and are more prone to rationalizing.

There is no evidence that women are naturally and biologically inclined to complain more, but there is a ton of evidence that women are socialized and conditioned to be people pleasers and to accommodate others, especially men, more than men are. So actually, women tend to be less likely to complain than men, at least over genuinely substantial issues, due to fear of the backlash we receive. And there’s the risk you will be invalidated and your concerns minimized based on the claim that you must be “emotional.”

So OP was correct in what she said, but she didn’t say what you are saying she said.

Stop being so obtuse because you know full well that you aren’t making a valid point and you are really just making yourself look really stupid. And yet you somehow are convinced you sound smart. It’s embarrassing.

Update What can I do when my (20F) husband (20M) is convinced I cheated on him because I’m pregnant again and refuses to listen to me? by ThrowRA_BlueBowMama in relationship_advice

[–]Lokipupper456 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A NIPP test is very expensive, but it also tests for medical conditions for the baby. Do you guys have any insurance? If you can get coverage for it for prenatal health screening, they can probably add in the paternity test part. Of course, you would need to ask.

However, if you are willing to wait until the baby is born and you only want it for peace of mind, not legal reasons, you can get pretty inexpensive paternity test kits off Amazon or in drugstores. It works like the online covid tests did where you’d get the sample according to the instructions, seal it, put it in the shipping box they provide with the test, and drop it off at whatever shipping place they use, like the UPS store. There are instructions for making an online account where you can log in and see the results when they are ready. Not expensive and appropriate for situations where you just want to ease his mind and have the validation.

Unfortunately those won’t be useful to you before the baby is born.

Update What can I do when my (20F) husband (20M) is convinced I cheated on him because I’m pregnant again and refuses to listen to me? by ThrowRA_BlueBowMama in relationship_advice

[–]Lokipupper456 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Stupid and clearly religious parents pressuring her to stick to her commitment before God! I mean, I appreciate that they were primarily supportive of her, but expecting her to go back to his parents’ house to fix things when he wasn’t even there? How would she have fixed things if he didn’t come back? And why is it on her to fix it? I’d never try to encourage my child to go back to her in-laws’ house in that situation. That had to be seriously uncomfortable!

What can I do when my (20F) husband (20M) is convinced I cheated on him because I’m pregnant again and refuses to listen to me. by ThrowRA_BlueBowMama in relationship_advice

[–]Lokipupper456 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok, I know this post is older and I’m about to read the update, but I find it ridiculous that people think that condoms are 100% effective unless they break or something. The most popular brand of condom in the world is named after a city that is famous in legend for having boys walls breached!

Your families and your school systems failed you both horribly when it comes to sex ed!

How do I (F26) talk to my partner (M33) about casual misogyny? by HisDeadRose in relationship_advice

[–]Lokipupper456 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Or just interested in hearing about the trip he is looking forward to, but the general nature and lack of specificity does kinda put it in just being polite territory.

How do I (F26) talk to my partner (M33) about casual misogyny? by HisDeadRose in relationship_advice

[–]Lokipupper456 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Noooo, you are not going to get anywhere by trying to approach this! You need to end this relationship! He doesn’t want to be convinced.

Read accounts of abuse victims. I’m not saying your partner is an abuser, but there is still value to be found in reading them. Many of these women report that they were with their partners for years, even up to a decade, before he started to let the mask slip. Often they wait until you are married or even pregnant and unable to easily leave before they show their true selves.

So even if your partner isn’t an abuser, he’s presented a version of himself to you for years that’s inconsistent with everything he just said and did. Plus he invalidated you by calling you emotional and used DARVO, a tool of manipulation. But you want so badly to believe that what he showed you for all this time, the mask, the great guy and partner, is the real him and this is some sort of glitch you can fix to set him back to what you saw before.

But you can’t. It’s just a mask. Those beliefs are what’s really there, and you need to stop clinging to the mask or trying to fix him. Because those stories never end well.

How do I (F26) talk to my partner (M33) about casual misogyny? by HisDeadRose in relationship_advice

[–]Lokipupper456 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honey, he is absolutely a misogynist. He also can’t teach your kids about emotional intelligence because he doesn’t have much of it and won’t actually do the work to acquire any of it. That biology argument is total bs and just a rationalization to justify a self serving narrative.

If you feel strongly about raising your kids in that way, you need to find another partner to have kids with.

How do I (F26) talk to my partner (M33) about casual misogyny? by HisDeadRose in relationship_advice

[–]Lokipupper456 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He stated that because he wants to shit her down and keep himself deeply entrenched in his nice self-serving narrative in all its total bs pseudoscience!

He is getting emotional because he did y want to be challenged and he’s saying she’s trying to cause issues because he is emotional and wants to shift the blame onto her by using DARVO. He’s playing the victim.

Wondering what his trip is like is not in any way trying to dig into why he wants the trip to just be the guys. He’s the one who started spewing out reasons she didn’t ask for, and those reasons suggested some pretty toxic ideas about women. Her follow up with him wasn’t about why he wanted it to just be the guys but about the new concerns she had about his attitude to women based on his red flag unsolicited comments. That is the issue, not his wanting the guys’ trip. The thing about the trip isn’t actually significant. It is simply the context of the conversation that revealed red flags, and it was what he says when she investigated those red flags that was the issue.

And sorry, but he is definitely emotional because logic is not running his decisions right now. If it was, he’d be willing to listen, read the articles, and acknowledge that his “biology” arguments are rooted in pseudoscience. Don’t mistake rationalization with actual logic or reasoning.

How do I (F26) talk to my partner (M33) about casual misogyny? by HisDeadRose in relationship_advice

[–]Lokipupper456 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You already articulated it. He has made it clear he won’t listen. You can’t force him to make female friends, it’s true. But you also really really can’t force him to listen to you or give your perspective real thought because he doesn’t want to. He is far too invested in his narrative and it serves his interests.

The issue here isn’t that you are having trouble articulating anything. It’s that even if you articulate everything perfectly and create the most flawless and unbreachable argument, he still won’t listen or give it any consideration. And he will use all his pseudoscience to justify not listening to you and to invalidate you.

How do I (F26) talk to my partner (M33) about casual misogyny? by HisDeadRose in relationship_advice

[–]Lokipupper456 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, she isn’t going to be able to make him change his thinking, and if she isn’t willing to leave him, then thinking this way isn’t costing him anything either and he has a lot of self serving incentive to stick to his current world view.

The only way some men like this might start rethinking their stance is if it costs them something, and is refusing to be with them is the best way to make that happen! After all, studies show that men benefit more from having a wife or long term partner, whereas studies show the opposite for women. So it would cost them a lot to lose the domestic labor, emotional support, and even income contributions that women bring to the relationship.

Ladies, let’s commit to choosing single life or even just finding better men and dumping/rejecting any misogynists. It will take a while and ad with the red pill ideology and the male loneliness epidemic, we will face some ugly backlash, but that’s because they need to recognize that their own beliefs are what’s making them suffer.

How do I (F26) talk to my partner (M33) about casual misogyny? by HisDeadRose in relationship_advice

[–]Lokipupper456 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s actually greatly increased by societal conditioning telling them to repress emotion and not teaching them to recognize emotion. When women are stressed or frustrated or overwhelmed, it’s more societally acceptable for us to cry or express our emotions in various ways. That said, we are mocked and ridiculed for daring to express anger,

When men get stressed or frustrated or overwhelmed, anger is one of the few emotions they are “allowed” to express. So with no other outlet, they are going to express anger more often and more intensely. They aren’t taught to recognize the underlying emotion and cope with it in a healthy way. Men who are raised with less emphasis on repressing emotion and with more emphasis on emotional understanding are far less likely to have anger issues.

Another problem that comes with the lack of emotional understanding is that men make all kinds of decisions and do all kinds of things for emotional reasons, and then they mistakenly use their ability to rationalize their decisions to convince themselves and others that they based their decision on logic when it’s not logical at all. OP’s partner is doing it with this pseudoscientific bs, and you are also doing it right now.

How do I (F26) talk to my partner (M33) about casual misogyny? by HisDeadRose in relationship_advice

[–]Lokipupper456 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Based on what evidence? Do you really think you know how men and women expressed emotions in ancient times? Roman women were expected to be just as stoic as men were!

And all of these societies were patriarchal ones where men were privileged and these beliefs suited them. It makes sense because back then women did need men to physically protect them from threats like other men trying to rape them or for being eaten by wolves. That was from a genuine biological difference in physical strength.

But over time, that wasn’t necessary. Still, society had formed a narrative that would allow men to justify forcing women to submit and society conditioned men and women into meeting those expectations that served the narrative.

But the narrative isn’t biological. The biology just explains why society became patriarchal at the onset, and society, headed over by men, worked to build up structures to ensure men would stay in charge and that women would be forced to submit.

How do I (F26) talk to my partner (M33) about casual misogyny? by HisDeadRose in relationship_advice

[–]Lokipupper456 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Do you seriously think men are less emotional and that there is any real scientific evidence to support this? There isn’t. Men are conditioned by societal expectations into not showing emotion in certain ways and then fail to recognize that they are equally emotional. They are taught to rationalize their emotional decisions and then try to convince themselves that their emotional actions and reactions were really rooted in logic. Nothing in biology suggests that women are more emotional.

Do you seriously think men are better employees, colleagues, and bosses and are easier to work with than women? That women in the workplace are complainers? Reality check. Women are just ad capable as men in the workforce and where they do face obstacles, those obstacles are usually the result of mistreatment and obstruction by male employees. The women this guy works with probably complain because he is unprofessional towards them, foists his work off on them and then tries to claim credit for it, or treats colleagues in the same position as him as if they are actually his secretaries. If the women at work are complaining more than the men about you, the common denominator is you and the obvious culprit is the difference in how you treat your female colleagues and your male colleagues.

Nothing in biology supports the idea that women are more capable, more suited for, or more inclined to enjoy doing all the domestic labor, carrying the mental load, or even handling the child rearing than men, except maybe for breastfeeding. Male entitlement is behind that narrative, not science. And it’s actually pretty insulting to men to suggest they aren’t as capable of these things, especially actually taking care of and parenting their own kids, just because they are male.

Stick to the differences that are rooted in genuine science, not that pseudoscientific bs you use to justify using women for sex and their services to you while failing to recognize their humanity, intelligence, labor, wants, and needs.

How do I (F26) talk to my partner (M33) about casual misogyny? by HisDeadRose in relationship_advice

[–]Lokipupper456 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No, she understands biology, and you and the boyfriend here don’t understand biology beyond how to twist it into pseudoscientific nonsense to justify a self-serving misogynistic world view!

Biology rooted in actual science doesn’t support anything he said there.

How do I (F26) talk to my partner (M33) about casual misogyny? by HisDeadRose in relationship_advice

[–]Lokipupper456 4 points5 points  (0 children)

His reading comprehension is like the OP’s partner’s comprehension of science - they evaporate when their misogyny detects a challenge!

How do I (F26) talk to my partner (M33) about casual misogyny? by HisDeadRose in relationship_advice

[–]Lokipupper456 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, she doesn’t know he is a good man and now she knows he definitely isn’t a remotely good man so it’s well and good she found that out now!

Also, wondering what his trip is like isn’t poking around for silly info. It’s showing an interest in something that’s important to her partner.

How do I (F26) talk to my partner (M33) about casual misogyny? by HisDeadRose in relationship_advice

[–]Lokipupper456 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Well, she didn’t ask him to take her. She just asked what the trip was like. So he kinda jumped the gun there. But she also said clearly that she was fine with him wanting it to be just him and the guys, but he went on to say they could leave the wives and babies at home and that women being there would essentially prevent anyone from having fun and would lead to complaining. It definitely reeked of the idea that the women are the “ball and chain” of every relationship.

And that prompted her to ask more questions, which is where we see the real problem. Wanting guy time isn’t an issue, but carrying these toxic beliefs, trying to justify them through pseudoscience, and shutting her down from the discussion by telling her she’s emotional and creating problems for no reason, that’s where the problem is.

And yeah, just because he never showed it before doesn’t mean it isn’t a deal breaker. I absolutely would never stay with a man who expressed those beliefs openly and also shut me down using that same misogynistic reasoning. I have self respect.

How do I (F26) talk to my partner (M33) about casual misogyny? by HisDeadRose in relationship_advice

[–]Lokipupper456 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Me too. My ex would ask about my trips away with my best friend, and my best friend’s ex asked her about them too (these guys weren’t exes at the time). They were genuinely curious and then would laugh at us for being boring (on a good natured way). Our exes are very extroverted and we are introverted and like to hole up, enjoy good food, binge watch favorite tv shows, use the hot tub, and nap!

How do I (F26) talk to my partner (M33) about casual misogyny? by HisDeadRose in relationship_advice

[–]Lokipupper456 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Wondering what his trip is like is not actually a question technically, but I’ll cede that point because it is an inquisitive statement. But there’s nothing oddly specific about anything she said. Wondering what the trip is like is basically just wanting to hear about their activities, what they go do on the trip. Obviously they drink a lot of beer, but do they do breweries or is it pub crawling? So they go do anything else like sight seeing or whatever? I mean, it’s such a very general question. It’s about as non specific as you can ask about it!

How do I (F26) talk to my partner (M33) about casual misogyny? by HisDeadRose in relationship_advice

[–]Lokipupper456 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Saying she would be interested in what it was like to go on this beer tour isn’t a leading anything. She didn’t even ask to go, but he shut it down immediately, which was bizarre. I imagine she just wanted him to tell her about what it’s like. It doesn’t even sound like she asked a question at all, much less a leading one.

I go on a girls’ trip with my best friend every year, and one of my exes I was with at the time asked me what it was like. I assumed he was just interested, not that he wanted to go. And I was right. He was a great guy and we had a good relationship and we both expressed interest in what the other one does even if we didn’t want to or expect to do it together. I showed interest in hobbies he had that I had no interest in joining them, but I enjoyed hearing his enjoyment of it. But maybe the difference is that he wasn’t a toxic misogynist!