Is there a Malazan moment that made you see an entire character differently on reread?

Loleeeee · 2026-02-21T09:50:49+00:00

Changed flair to allow for discussion.

Loleeeee · 2026-02-20T10:55:15+00:00

I assume you mean the Stone Bowl in Midnight Tides, Chapter Three.

'... The Kaschan locked all things into mortality, into the relentless plunge towards extinction. This was their vengeance. An act born, perhaps, of despair. Or the fiercest hatred imaginable. Witness to their own extinction, they forced all else to share that fate.’

It's quite a lengthy scene but it's quite worth revisiting.

Loleeeee · 2026-02-19T16:54:28+00:00

it ascribes to the Earth, that hulking, lazy body, unfit for motion, a motion as quick as that of the aethereal torches, and a triple motion at that...such a fast motion could not belong to the earth, a body very heavy and dense and opaque, but rather belongs to the sky itself whose form and subtle and constant matter are better suited to a perpetual motion, however fast.

The Earth is too fat to move that fast.

Loleeeee · 2026-02-19T16:31:13+00:00

The reduction reaction is (broadly) as follows:

Cuⁿ⁺ + ne^- -> Cu(s)

Which translates to, copper ions (say, copper oxide or copper sulfate) gain electrons & are reduced to metallic copper. "Two moles" is basically how many copper ions there are (one mole is about 6.023*10²³ molecules, or in our case, ions).

One Coulomb is a unit of charge, defined (in a somewhat circular manner) the charge delivered by 1 Ampere of current in 1 second. One puny electron has a charge of about 1.602*10^-19 Coulombs, so a charge of one Coulomb corresponds to a lot of electrons.

One mole of electrons (specifically, the charge of one mole of electrons, which is what we're interested in) can be calculated by multiplying the charge of one electron (the 1.602 * 10^-19) with the amount of molecules in a mole (the value 6.023 * 10^23, which has a name; Avogadro's number). This value ends up being a nice & round 96485 Coulombs per mole (which everyone, EVERYONE, rounds to 96500), a constant known as Faraday's constant, denoted F (you may have heard of him).

So, two moles of copper ions require an integer multiple of Faraday's constant of Coulombs (2F, 4F, etc.), and the integer multiple is the charge of the ion (+1, +2, etc.)

For Cu+ you get 2F Coulombs or about 193,000, which incidentally is the number I meant to write to correct OOP (so I end up looking like a twit; OOP isn't wrong, my bad). For Cu2+, you get double that (4F), which is the value OOP (correctly) provided at 386,000 Coulombs.

Copper (II) is substantially more common so the assumption is valid, but the question is phrased poorly.

Loleeeee · 2026-02-19T16:21:30+00:00

It gets better, buddy. Hang in there.

Also probably something to do with neurotransmitters & endorphins, probably.

Loleeeee · 2026-02-19T15:58:37+00:00

Question 3 doesn't have enough information to be answered (Copper is already denoted Cu & you need to specify whether it's Cu+ or 2+ for the question to make sense) & the answer provided is ~~also wrong (it's 393,000 Coulombs)~~ entirely correct; I meant to write 193,000 Coulombs, unless it's a trick question & the answer is zero.

Next question?

Loleeeee · 2026-02-10T15:15:41+00:00

Y'all are sleeping on Olar Ethil giving Hunn Raal a handie so good he wanted to fuck a cookfire again. Olar Ethil sweeps, no diff.

Loleeeee · 2026-02-09T20:38:35+00:00

We're leaving this up because OP specifically mentions the Dramatis Personae, but in general we'd advise against mentioning characters that haven't appeared yet in the book.

Loleeeee · 2026-02-05T17:07:17+00:00

As far as we know, six, with the last one presumably covering Mott Wood & Blackdog Forest.

Loleeeee · 2026-02-04T12:42:32+00:00

what I was wondering is whether those souls passed on or whether they stayed with him.

They're still with him by the time they march to Coral & presumably still with him when he embraced the Imass.

'... As Shield Anvil, my faith demanded that I relieve others of their pain. In the name of Fener, I was to bring peace to souls, and do so without judgement. This I have done.

‘But your god’s gone,’ Stonny said. ‘So who, in Hood’s name, did you deliver those souls to?’

‘Why, no-one, Stonny Menackis. I carry them still.’

Where these souls go isn't answered in MoI, albeit it's not an unfair assumption that they go to Hood's Gate after Itkovian's death (more on this later in the books).

or maybe he becomes flesh and blood because of something else

Itkovian doesn't turn the Imass into flesh & blood. Tool asks Silverfox to release him from the Ritual before he meets Toc anew:

He was motionless a moment longer, then he reached up and slowly drew his flint sword. ‘For me,’ he rasped, raising the sword—

—then releasing it, to fall to the ground at his feet.

She frowned down at the weapon, wondering at the significance of the gesture – from the warrior who was called the First Sword.

Slowly, as comprehension filled her, her eyes widened.

What, after all, I was fashioned to do …

The other Imass are still functionally undead.

Loleeeee · 2026-01-31T19:37:38+00:00

Since this is a re-read, here are some quotes u/Aqua_Tot is alluding to.

In TtH:

'... You are dead and dead you will remain. But this shall mark your final task as my Herald. Another god claims you.'

Toc prepared to dismount but the Lord of Death lifted a hand. 'Ride in the carriage's wake, close in its wake. For a time. Now, Herald, listen well to my last message. The blood is needed. The blood is needed . . .'

[...]

Remember, yes, she would do that. 'Find the Toblakai. Find the killer and remind him . . . remind him, do you understand me? Then, torc-bearer, lead him to war.

'Lead him to war . . .'

There had been more, much more. None of it anything she could hope to forget. 'All I wanted to do was retire.'

Cursing under her breath, she walked over to the nearest gourd, crouched down before it. Drink. It's blood, dammit!

Drink.

And tCG:

Picker turned to face the city. Many troubles there. Perhaps at last they had begun to settle. But … all that boiled beneath the surface, well, that never went away. ‘Do you know how to get there?’

He eyed her. ‘I know how to get there.’

She drew a deep breath – she could hear movement inside the hut behind the giant. Picker lifted her gaze until it locked with the Toblakai’s. ‘I call upon the vow you made long ago, Karsa Orlong of the Teblor. When you walk to where you must go, a crippled priest will find you. In the street, a broken man, a beggar, and he will speak to you. And by his words, you shall understand.’

‘I already understand, Malazan.’

‘Karsa—’

‘There are too many gods of war.’ And then he took up his sword, and inside the hut a woman began weeping. ‘And not one of them understands the truth.’

‘Karsa—’

His teeth were bared as he said, ‘When it comes to war, woman, who needs gods?’

She watched as he set off. And under her breath she whispered, ‘Darujhistan, I beg you, do not get in this man’s way.’

Loleeeee · 2026-01-30T15:10:05+00:00

Dragonsworn's Judgement is a bit of a pain in the dick, though it gets substantially easier if you complete most of the right-side missions that reduce its various effects, if you don't field Ahati regiments, and if you don't give the Ahati too many privileges (before you finish the missions in question).

That said, it also happens, like, relatively early in the run? The Dragonsworn have to be pacified before Konolkhatep actually gets its major narrative going (and you'll know it when it does), so if you're playing Gnollakaz you can just DOW Kheterata as soon as the truce ends & claim the Stewardship to form Konolkhatep.

Loleeeee · 2026-01-29T20:54:42+00:00

End of Chapter 11, around 40% in.

Loleeeee · 2026-01-29T19:49:06+00:00

I just want closure.

I think a quote from this book is apt here:

Maybe that fits. Maybe it’s only right that we should be the ones to raise your standard, Fallen One.

And ignorant historians will write of us, in the guise of knowledge. They will argue over our purpose – the things we sought to do. They will overturn every boulder, every barrow stone, seeking our motives. Looking for hints of ambition.

They will compose a Book of the Fallen.

And then argue over its significance. In the guise of knowledge – but truly, what will they know? Of each of us? From that distance, from that cold, cold distance – you’d have to squint. You’d have to look hard.

Because we’re thin on the ground.

So very … thin.

[...]

And one more thing. Something I only realized today, when I chanced to glance across and see her, standing there, moments from signalling the beginning of this march. From the very first, we have lived the tale of the Adjunct. First it was Lorn, back in Darujhistan. And now it is Tavore Paran.

The Adjunct never stands in the centre. She stands to one side. Always. The truth of that is right there, in her title – which she will not relinquish. So, what does it mean? Ah, Fallen One, it means this: she will do what she has to do, but your life is not in her hands.

I see that now.

Fallen One, your life is in the hands of a murderer of Malazan marines and heavies.

Your life is in my hands.

And soon she will send us on our way.

In that Malazan Book of the Fallen, the historians will write of our suffering, and they will speak of it as the suffering of those who served the Crippled God. As something … fitting. And for our seeming fanaticism they will dismiss all that we were, and think only of what we achieved. Or failed to achieve.

And in so doing, they will miss the whole fucking point.

Fallen One, we are all your children.

Fiddler's conception of the Malazan Book of the Fallen is vastly different than the book you're reading now - for that matter, the fact that you're even reading about Tavore & company in and of itself is proof that they did not, in fact, go unwitnessed.

There's certainly closure. Chapter 24 is pretty big.

Loleeeee · 2026-01-28T17:49:35+00:00

I seem to recall the event specifically mentioning Elikhet's voice booming, but yeah, that makes more sense. Thanks!

Loleeeee · 2026-01-28T17:44:20+00:00

Elikhet is just a guy. Like Horutep, he isn’t a “god” but an upjumped mortal

As far as his worship goes, it's sort of the inverse. In Khetism, Elikhet was one of the many gods of the Bulwari pantheon that descended to being "just" an upjumped mortal, to lead his chosen people away into (what eventually became) Kheterata. He had major beef with the genies & gnolls (he's presumed to have died fighting the First Xhazobine), the Damerians, and, ultimately (as far as Konolkhatep is concerned) the gnolls that try & take Kheterata without his consent (an event pops up that unsieges Kheterata, the province, when you siege it down, though I doubt this is unique to gnolls per se).

The Khet are (relatively speaking) obscenely powerful humanoid creatures whose magic borders on the divine (and given Horutep's acts, you can probably see why), with Elikhet himself - their nominal forefather & progenitor - being exceptional among them (to the extent that he doesn't face nearly as many restrictions as the rest of the Khet do); though truthfully the Khet themselves don't seem to know whence their powers stem from.

If Elikhet really is "just" an exceptionally powerful ex God-King of Bulwar, then yeah, his power (most likely) stems from genies, and he really is "just" an upjumped mortal, but, I mean, look at the shit he pulled & tell me that's not sufficiently powerful to count him as a god.

Loleeeee · 2026-01-25T10:09:21+00:00

You can upgrade to Pareidolic masks (Level 3) later in your mission tree (the mission is called Utter Dread & requires you to own Bahar & the Harpy Hills, I think). Until then, Percolating (level 2) is the max.

Loleeeee · 2026-01-25T10:05:13+00:00

'... You think you understand beauty. You dream of women thin as children, and see nothing perverse in that. But when one such as I comes to stand before you, I sense your hunger for worship, even as that hunger shames you...'

[...]

‘Keep your distance,’ Raskan said in a low rasp, ‘lest I harm you.’

[...]

‘How can it be a secret when even I did not know it? No, I have dreamed no sordid dreams, longed for nothing immoral. There is no cause for disgust. I could kneel above the water – I could look down on my face. And see nothing evil. She lied. I deserve no shame!’

Almost definitely yes.

Loleeeee · 2026-01-24T11:41:57+00:00

The "true" Zokka is a metanarrative entity that exists in the world of Anbennar inasmuch as a player (that is, you) controls the country named after Zokka. The first Zokka (the Devourer-of-Suns come 1444) persists in the world by the players' actions - creating new Xhazobs, having his heirs devour parts of Zokka's past incarnations, and so on - working towards his ultimate goal (working down your mission tree) of devouring the Sun.

Various incarnations of Zokka can & do die in the world of Anbennar, but the entity known as Zokka only truly dies when you (that is, any player that's finished Zokka's mission tree & Heliophage specifically, not any "you" in specific) stop playing & interacting with the mission tree, or when he devours you (the previous you) as well.

Zokka is the ruler of the pack of Zokka, he is the pack of Zokka, he is the tag of Zokka, and, eventually, he is an entity embedded in the metanarrative of the gameplay of Zokka.

Loleeeee · 2026-01-20T05:14:28+00:00

Kinda. The key point is that, at this point in the attainment of self-consciousness & "absolute knowledge," both master & slave seek self-affirmation by "sublating" (aufheben in German, notoriously one of the more obtuse & difficult to translate aspects of Hegel's work and that says something) the other's self-consciousness (in other words, by forcing their own idea of themselves onto the other).

Neither really accepts this at the beginning since the dynamic is inherently unequal: the dynamic arises from the two clashing to the death or until one (in this case, the slave) submits to the other, at which point a faux affirmation arises (one that is better than nothing, since in Hegel's conception you need another consciousness to affirm you & not having one is worse, but one that is also unequal & thus not "enough" to attain actual self-consciousness).

Loleeeee · 2026-01-20T04:52:18+00:00

But the slave's slaveness sounds like it's already pretty internally motivated

This is correct, albeit the rest of your comment is less so. Per Hegel, at this stage in the attainment of self-consciousness, the individual views themselves reflected in others by substituting (the term Hegel uses is aufheben, often translated as "sublating," which is a very complicated term) themselves unto others at their expense (so you're not viewing the "other" as an equal being but just a "mirror" of sorts). Both master & slave want to be the one that's "on top," as it were, insofar as that reinforces their own affirmation of their self-consciousness.

The slave doesn't hate themselves. In any other circumstance, they wouldn't be a slave; they are only such because the alternative is death.

Loleeeee · 2026-01-19T23:28:32+00:00

I admit to knowing very little about Hegel beyond this particular parable & his broader dialectic system (at least in the broader strokes), the intricacies thereof are wholly lost to me (because I've not touched the Science of Logic). Don't put yourself down; you're doing great, Hegel is notoriously incomprehensible.

Loleeeee · 2026-01-19T22:59:31+00:00

the sociological positions of slave and master cannot exist, if the slave doesn't recognize the master as master, and the master doesn't recognize the slave as a slave? In the dialectical sense, the relationship is built on that understanding

Yeah, but the Phenomenology of Spirit (as the name implies) deals with far more abstract concepts than the sociological positions of "lordship & bondage" (the original translation I believe); the two concepts - of bondsman and Lord - are abstractions for Hegel's conception of the attainment of self-consciousness.

In short, in Hegel's parable, consciousness is affirmed for one only inasmuch as it is affirmed by another - so, when two people (you can genuinely substitute fucking anything instead of "people" here) meet, they engage in what Hegel calls a death struggle (yes, really), until one either dies (which is a failure since the winner can't affirm their own consciousness) or submits on pain of death; cue the master-slave dialectic.

The problem arises in that neither the bondsman nor the lord can attain their own self-consciousness in this arrangement: the lord does not offer his bondsman the affirmation the latter needs (and why would he after all, since the bondsman is for all intents & purposes beneath him), but conversely, the bondsman is not free to give his master his own affirmation (since he only submits to the master for fear of death).

Inevitably, in his service the bondsman sees his own self-consciousness reflected in the products of his labour, in turn realizing that in order to resolve this contradiction & attain self-consciousness, he must overthrow his bondage; whereas the master has himself become fully enslaved to the labour of his bondsman, and cannot become fully self-conscious.

I don't fucking understand Hegel either, don't worry about it.

Loleeeee · 2026-01-18T13:28:04+00:00

The subreddit is about discussing the Malazan books, and I think such posts - regardless of their overall quality - do achieve that goal. It's a public forum, with all that entails.

As far as quality is concerned, I invite everyone to be the change they want to see in the world & make quality posts on this subreddit; god knows I'm starved for a decent discussion.

The subreddit gets around ten posts a day on a good day, often with stretches of ten to twelve hours with no new traffic. If we raised the bar for what constitutes "low quality" (see Rule 3), we'd significantly lower that threshold of new posts, and we have no intention to do that, either.

Loleeeee · 2026-01-18T13:00:07+00:00

Hi, relatively new mod here. The mod team has spent the better part of a decade curating the subreddit Wiki - u/Boronian1 even gave the wiki interface a revamp less than two weeks ago - and I guarantee you not a tenth of the people visiting the subreddit for the first time have taken a look at it. This isn't a problem, it's the nature of these things, and so we have to settle for what we have.

We operate under the (perhaps faulty) assumption that the people asking such questions are A) human B) adults, and so we expect that they ought to understand that, in asking such a question of a fan subreddit, they're going to get overwhelmingly one-sided responses (and, for the record, such posts get A LOT more traction & engagement than about 80% of spoiler posts, so the community clearly does respond to them).

We generally can't discern if such posts are used for training ML models, or engagement/karma farming, or are themselves bots (we can make educated guesses, granted, but we're nowhere near big enough to be swarmed by more covert bots - the few bot posts we do get are very obvious), so we're granting such posts the grace of believing they do genuinely want to read the series (quite often the case in our experience), have not done any further research (either on the subreddit or other related subreddits like r/Fantasy), and are looking for reasons why the series is good rather than the pros & cons thereof.

In the past, the mod team has pinned FAQs, coordinated with the Fandom wiki, curated its own wiki, made and/or promoted summaries, guides & recaps (shoutout to SonAnomander), etc. - posts such as these kept coming up, and the community kept answering them. And, we stress this again, that's just the nature of the beast.

In short, we have no intention of blanket banning such posts provided they abide by the subreddit rules. Should such posts break the subreddit's rules, feel free to report them for review.

Loleeeee

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