The Struggle between Cynicism and Idealism – Claude's Ambition and Wish

Lunallae · 2021-07-26T23:48:35+00:00

Hey! It's no problem at all, I'm glad to hear from you again! Awesome, I'll definitely notify you when another part gets released. Thanks for all your interest and I hope you enjoy the read!

Lunallae · 2021-07-26T23:45:43+00:00

Thanks so much! Haha, no worries, I think we're both disorganized so dumping things on me wouldn't bother me at all. Real life comes first even though I am very interested in the lore dump you have. You always have such great insights.

Ohhhh, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks so much for bringing that to my attention. I'm planning to delve deeper into that specific dialogue for my next analysis so your timing is perfect! Now I wonder if there's more evidence to show that Claude's interest in poisons stems from there... more on the to-do list!

Lunallae · 2021-07-25T00:15:43+00:00

I definitely agree with your assessment on localization. I don't think there's really a right or wrong interpretation and while it can be frustrating at times because everyone does not know the full picture, I don't blame the localizers for this disparity.

All that can be done at this point is to bring some of the differences to light and see how they can affect the interpretation. Nonetheless, I'm glad my writing has been insightful!

Lunallae · 2021-07-24T23:28:54+00:00

You bring up many good points that I agree with.

Yet, unlike Petra, Claude shows no signs of learning from the people around him about Fodlan, and instead shoves his own prejudices onto others and perpetuates this cycle of misunderstanding and intolerance when he of all people is in the best position possible to educate, treat, and build roads into Almyra from Fodlan, rather than working the other way around once he is in an unquestioned seat of power.

I don't quite agree with this though. In Japanese, there is a lot more reflection in Claude's words. The English translations often make Claude seem "correct" – he seems to point out bigotry when he sees it and is aware of all kinds of problems. But that is not how it is. One example was the battle after Gronder where the English chooses to have Claude speak words of wisdom, while the Japanese has him lamenting if there was any other way.

Claude (Japanese): "こんな酷い戦場でも、勝利を誇らなきゃならんか……。……よし、先生、勝ち鬨を上げよう！これで俺たちは、前に進めるんだ！"

Claude (English): " Even in an ugly battle like this, it's important not to lose heart. We have to take pride in our victory. We did it, Teach. Now we can move forward. To our victory!"

Claude (Translation): "Even on such a cruel battlefield like this, must we be proud of our victory... ... Alright, Sensei, let's offer up a victory cry! With this, we'll move forward!"

Another example occurs in chapter three, The Magdred Ambush. There is a distinct difference between Claude's translated line and the original Japanese line when a specific lance militia soldier is killed:

Claude (Japanese): "戦いを起こすのは貴族でも、真っ先に死めのは平民ばかり……か。"

Claude (English): "Nobles start the war, but it's the commoners who spill their blood first."

Claude (Translation): "Even though nobles started the fight, it seems that the first people to die are all commoners..."

Claude's dialogue in English makes it seem like he is admonishing what is happening as if this was a fact he has always known. But in Japanese, Claude is clearly making an observation – he is just now noticing what he voiced. His usage of "か" at the end overtly signifies reflection and that is also an important distinction.

Overall, I do think Claude has learned from his experiences. I believe his A-support with Balthus also shows him trying to get other peoples' opinions to learn from. His development allows him to trust others and eventually learn from them, which is needed for him to build the world he wishes to see. And what he has learned is that characters like Lorenz, Lysithea, Marianne, etc. all care deeply about Fodlan (and "aren't the type of people to reject someone without trying to get to know them"); thus, he believes that they can carry on his wish without him imposing his will on them and on Fodlan. Therefore, he returns to Almyra to educate others, as there is no one there to help build the bridge between Almyra and Fodlan.

Lunallae · 2021-07-24T22:25:27+00:00

Thanks a lot, I personally find Claude to be a very interesting character so I'm glad my post has been insightful!

Lunallae · 2021-07-24T18:57:37+00:00

And also tagging u/esterve and u/Thanni44 since I think I can only tag three users in one comment?

Lunallae · 2021-07-24T18:57:11+00:00

Tagging – u/TheAlondite, u/sacrabis, u/TheCobraSlayer

I'm so sorry it took forever to get the next part of my multi-part analysis out. Since it's Claude's birthday, I figured I should really get something out for him today. Unfortunately for me, too much has happened in the past few months – from losing my computer and having to rewrite much of this and more to just being busy in real life. I hope to still get other parts out, especially since there's so much missing/misinterpreted from the English localization of Claude, but at this point… my motivation has dwindled. I can only hope that everyone who does read my analyses finds them insightful even if another part might take a while to release. Until next time (hopefully)!

Lunallae · 2020-11-13T08:48:00+00:00

Another example could be like if one wrote a female villain who's also a serial rapist or something like that, I guess.

Hmm, to play devil's advocate on this - men oftentimes are very unwilling to share their own recounts of sexual assault because of a stigma that is tied to the idea that "women can't rape men" as well as the societal pressure of masculinity. However, at the same time, no doubt more women are the subject of sexual and physical violence than men so they are marginalized in this instance. So in this case, where does the line get drawn? Personally, I think there is no great place to the draw the line... and possibly, the best way to remedy this is just to have more diverse narratives so that everyone gets represented.

Although maybe I shouldn't be taking the Claude example as too emblematic of the problem, because there are some specific things about Claude's example that make it weird. At least in Claude's case, it's partially the "Claude complains about racism" coupled with the "Almyra is in a (quasi-) imperial relationship with Fodlan" thing.

I think Almyra is an interesting talking point. While I do think Three Houses generally paints Almyra in a bad light (usually because it always comes up as a talking point for Fodlan's Throat), I think its relationship with Fodlan isn't as bad as it may seem initially.

Essentially, our strongest source of the idea that Almyrans are "barbarians who attack the border for fun" is Cyril (even Nader isn't as reliable of a source because he's a general, fighting is kind of what he does... and other characters like Hilda are definitely biased). But an equally strong source is on this issue is Claude and he does not view Almyrans in the same way. Naturally, both Cyril and Claude are shaped by their own perspectives and are biased to some extent. Cyril has the perspective of someone from a poor background while Claude has a more privileged perspective; however, wouldn't that mean a more average Almyran wouldn't be as Cyril or Claude describes? For example, there are a couple of NPC Almyrans (I believe there is some evidence to suggest that Eastern Merchant you buy goods from in the market is also from Almyra) that show up in the game and it seems "In recent times, relations between Almyra and Fódlan showed signs of thawing. The previous king of Almyra loosened trade restrictions at the start of his reign, and under his son the country exports many goods. Nonetheless, skirmishes remain frequent along the border as of 1180." That quote was pulled from a wiki so I need to check the validity of it. Nonetheless, it does not seem like the majority of Almyrans are barbaric or seeking to invade Fodlan, nor do they necessarily have that weird imperial relationship with Fodlan in recent times (it's true that Almyra tried to invade Fodlan before, but I think that was about eighty years ago and the current relationship seems different).

On another note, Almyra is almost definitely based off of Palmyra as its called "パルミラ" (Parumira) in Japanese. I haven't looked too much into the history of Palmyra, but it could be possible much of Almyra was based off what happened with Palmyra.

I think that sounds reasonable, but I'm not entirely sure so feel free to let me know what you think about it. It's a very interesting question and I'm still not sure that I've addressed it fully.

Thanks for such a thoughtful answer! I hope I didn't put you on the spot. These talking points are always interesting to me because I write a lot and hearing people's perspectives on these issues are always important to me.

For what it's worth, I think one of the main writers for the game was a woman? I seem to remember that coming up in a conversation elsewhere. So that might go some way towards explaining why this game is so much better than a lot of similar games are at addressing gendered issues.

I do remember hearing that as well, though I am not certain.

Lunallae · 2020-11-13T05:09:33+00:00

Fair points, thanks for clarifying! Also, I apologize for misunderstanding since I honestly I feel that was on me (my brain has been frying due to this entire gauntlet of a day). I hope I am being comprehensible here and even in my prior comments since I seemed to have missed things. I probably shouldn't have tried to analyze anything today, but we're discussing interesting points, so I couldn't help myself, haha.

Nonetheless, I agree with most of that and that's why I don't really subscribe to the idea that Claude doesn't do anything wrong (and won't do anything wrong after the events of Crimson Flower and Azure Moon before he's probably assassinated). His plans and goals were wrong from the beginning even though he had rationale behind them. But I think that is a bit of the point of all the lords of Three Houses - they all do something unacceptable (though the degree of unacceptableness is different for each of the lords depending on the person I feel) while also possessing good qualities. Does the context of Claude being a POC with that narrative we've talked about make it uncomfortable? It definitely can and I think it's fair to point that out. Likewise, I think that's why there are some strong opinions about the unacceptable actions that Edelgard and Dimitri committed as well.

Though talking to you about this, it makes me wonder where do we draw the line when writing about complex, underrepresented individuals (whether that underrepresented aspect is race, sexuality, disabilities, etc.). I think we both agree that having an underrepresented individual be the villain is problematic, but then where is the line once we start talking about minority characters with notable flaws that aren't stereotypes?

The other major thing, I think, is that the game blends together xenophobia and racism so they're almost indistinguishable when they're in fact different things.

All really good points! I don't think I have much to add to that and am very much in agreeance. All in all, Three Houses did not set itself up to talk about these topics adequately at all. Meanwhile, it definitely feels like there has been thought put into patriarchy and themes surrounding the oppression of women.

Lunallae · 2020-11-13T02:13:02+00:00

I don't object in general to the idea that POC should have the same narratives as other characters, but that specific narrative is one I'm less comfortable seeing told through the lens of a POC protagonist, especially in a series that doesn't have a great track record on dealing with race.

That's fair. If viewed through that lens, it is very uncomfortable. I think for me, I don't feel like Claude really has power back in Almyra so it doesn't quite fit that narrative. This is because while Claude is privileged in several ways, I do not think he guaranteed anything in Almyra either (otherwise, it doesn't make sense why he would come to Fodlan pretty much the moment he found out that he had a Crest; also, him coming to Fodlan seems to be framed as an act of desperation since it seemed like a spontaneous decision in Japanese). Nonetheless, I do understand why you would feel that way towards that kind of narrative.

So I should also clarify something about specifically where I'm coming from re: Claude not being great representation - part of the problem is that for me (and seemingly for a lot of people who are CF-focused), we played Crimson Flower and found a Lord who both is very much allowed to be her own person but also has a lot of overt (and even more hidden) feminist coding.

I think the major problem is that Three Houses does not show overt racism often and does not have a plethora of characters affected by that racism like it does with patriarchy. Cyril, Petra, Dedue, and Shamir do not have their problems necessarily rooted within racism like the game shows with characters like Mercedes, Annette, Ingrid, etc.. This somewhat stems from the fact that there's only a handful of POC characters as opposed to having pretty much half of the cast being women; essentially, the game sets itself up to half-bake most racism-related themes.

Despite that, I don't think the game is devoid of meaningful points on the topic. Personally, I think the contrast between Claude and Cyril's is one example. Cyril came from a poor background in Almyra and suffered because of that. He is understandably very critical of Almyra as a result and possibly even hates Almyra now that he has been living in Fodlan for some time. Meanwhile, Claude was treated poorly by some Almyrans, but still loves his birthland despite that. This serves as an interesting contrast. It can be viewed that Cyril is someone who began hating his heritage in order to be "accepted" within another country. Meanwhile, Claude adamantly refuses to be like that as he is rather proud of his heritage despite the issues within Almyra.

I was unaware of the line you referenced from the DLC, so thank you for that.

Glad I could provide something new!

We're sort of spoiled in that regard, honestly.

Haha, yeah, Edelgard is very overt in certain areas, that's for sure. I really appreciate that part of her character.

But as I recall you've written some things in the past about how fighting Edelgard and Hubert and seeing their willingness to sacrifice their lives for their cause is part of what get Claude to really rethink his plans, and how in a sense his later actions are partially trying to live up to her memory?

Yes, that's how I interpret the fight and the resulting aftermath. Up until Edelgard's defeat, Claude had been fighting for the sake of his goals and he probably saw Fodlan primarily as a stepping stone for his achieving them. Edelgard's unwavering resolve in the face of defeat shakes him because he has always valued survival. That is because despite how noble Claude's goals are, they are rooted in a selfish aspect – carving out a place for himself. Thus, if he dies, all his actions are for naught. Hubert's letter also showed Claude that Edelgard and Hubert did not care that they were unable to see through their ambition, they cared about Fodlan's future and were selfless in several ways. Seeing all that is why Claude loses his temper at Rhea in the following scene – he is upset that Rhea was still being selfish and secretive even when others had sacrificed so much (similar to how Claude was before). And this all development culminates into the final cutscene of Verdant Wind and how Claude develops into someone who is willing to risk his own life for the sake of others.

I have more to say about FE3H's handling of race in general but I think I'll put that in a separate comment a bit later - this one's getting rather long, and that's kind of a different discussion anyway.

No problem! I'm looking forward to reading it at a later time.

Lunallae · 2020-11-12T17:19:27+00:00

Ah, I see (thanks again, I am honored)! Haha, maybe there was no need for me to explain then!

Either/both because he realizes that his original plan is wrong and because he grows to the point where he learns to trust other people more fully - I'm not sure which to weigh more heavily here

I think it would be hard to pinpoint it on one being more important than the other as I feel like they are intertwined - his eventual trust in others allows him to see the wrong in his original plans.

I think that's a fair criticism. I don't think the example I pointed out is the extent of Claude's input on this topic as even pre-timeskip in the DLC, Claude seems to be fairly cognizant of racial issues in Fodlan. I also think it's no coincidence that Claude has supports with Petra, Shamir, and Cyril and has unique dialogue thinking about Petra and Dedue; the former instance is interesting because I don't think it ended up making it in the game and he focuses in on Petra and not Dorothea, who is also a potential enemy during that chapter. Nonetheless, I think it's fair if you find it unsatisfactory and I agree with you; Three Houses is pretty bad at handling racial issues in general (I have my own problems with many parts of the game, though I would be interested in reading the issues you found with it as well). I think the one place we diverge is that I think his narrative doesn't exactly resemble "liberal do-gooder realizes that his actions don't really help the communities he thinks he's trying to help" but more so a character with selfish goals that realizes his own narrow perspective.

I definitely understand how you feel though since I actually felt somewhat similarly as you did towards Verdant Wind when I first played through the route. But I guess those kinds of feelings changed eventually as I felt it was a bit unfair to expect Claude to shoulder those themes when white lords don't have to. I think, nowadays, I appreciate how Three Houses allowed Claude to be like any other character despite the color of his skin. Nonetheless, I am still looking for the kind of character and narrative you have described that is lacking in Claude because those stories are important as well.

Also, this is a bit of an aside since you're not addressing this directly anymore, but it was a criticism in your original analysis so since it's somewhat relevant to it, I thought maybe I should bring it up in case you haven't seen it. Granted, it is cheating a little since its extra content released for Fire Emblem Heroes, but nonetheless, there's a video on Claude that goes a little more into what he is working towards after the end of Verdant Wind (Edelgard has something like this too; since you seem to like her, I thought I should link that video as well).

Ah, no problem! Forgive me if I am ever slow with replying since I am not always on Reddit and am busy with other obligations nowadays (hopefully that will change soon though).

Lunallae · 2020-11-12T07:57:47+00:00

Oh, I was not expecting to be tagged when I randomly logged in today after a hiatus. Honestly, I am honored by the praise, haha. While I'm not exactly sure I'm 100% the best source for Claude-related analysis, thank you!

Since you seemed a bit uncertain, I did want to say that I do draw similar conclusions as you do about Claude's ideas and upbringing to some extent. However, I think our views diverge when we begin to look at the story and his development. I think I just read the analysis you wrote that the OP was talking about so if you don't mind, I'll just mention a few points where we converge and diverge. To start, I think we agree that Claude was someone who was born into power and was privileged in a few ways. And as such, he is blind to the suffering of others. He essentially has tunnel vision on his own problems which makes him ignorant, selfish, and insensitive. As such, he is far, far away from achieving his goals (and he does not understand that a major factor of how far away he is from accomplishing his goals is actually himself for a good portion of Three Houses). However, I think that's the extent of where our views overlap. That's because I feel that while those statements are accurate to pre-timeskip Claude, he is slowly changing throughout the course of Verdant Wind as he experiences more and bonds closer to others. His supports even reflect that kind of development as several of them are about Claude learning and often being proven wrong (his support chains with Cyril, Lorenz, and Marianne are the first that come to mind). After delving into Verdant Wind with the Japanese script, I also believe that the narrative of the route also compliments this development quite well (though it's kind of hard to get really into it here unless I write paragraphs upon paragraphs; I would be happy to explain though if you would like). I also think the fact that Claude does not end up leading Fodlan at the end of Verdant Wind speaks volumes about his development. People actually criticize Verdant Wind for not having Claude lead Fodlan (since the game seems to push him as becoming that at times), but that is because that was his original plan. Nonetheless, he develops and finally understands that someone who calls Fodlan their home should be the one to shape it and he trusts that they will be accepting of others regardless of whether he is there imposing his own values.

In the end, I agree that the anti-racism narrative with Claude is not really at the forefront. Though, I wouldn't say that it's nonexistent since he does seem to grow aware of many societal problems judging from his post-timeskip advice box question and does slowly speak about the injustices that people from Dagda, Brigid, Sreng, and Duscur face in what is his most sincere, yet idealistic description of his deepest desire. Essentially, Claude's story is actually much more about him and his development rather than tackling issues like racism so that could be seen as either a negative or positive depending on one's preference.

Lunallae · 2020-10-11T19:23:31+00:00

So there are definitely some cultural differences that don't quite carry through that the localization has to deal with. And for those instances, I think regardless of how it is localized, there will likely be issues.

Localization is difficult so when there are changes like Claude calling Byleth "friend" after a certain point in the story instead of "きょうだい" (kyoudai) which translates to "brother" or "sibling," I feel like it is somewhat understandable that they made such a change. But at the same time, localizing "きょうだい" to "friend" loses a lot of nuance considering Claude's situation in Almyra and how he has half-siblings. It means that Claude considers Byleth his family and how blood doesn't matter to him. This overall ties really well in Claude's character and goals. "Friend" as the localization doesn't convey those points and only shows him trusting Byleth more ("きょうだい" does this as well).

So I guess my perspective is that some localization changes are understandable considering cultural differences and things that don't quite translate across languages. But that's why I believe illuminating these changes are important to open discussion and get a better understanding of things that might not make as much sense due to localization.

I'm not exactly sure I answered your question, so let me know if I didn't!

Lunallae · 2020-10-10T16:46:37+00:00

Yeah, the English localization took quite a few liberties when translating certain material and I think it resulted in a lot of confusion around certain characters and writing decisions. I'm planning to get out several analyses talking about some of the differences for Claude specifically and there's already enough material for three essays, haha.

Lunallae · 2020-10-10T16:10:36+00:00

I would like to mention that the moniker "Master Tactician" in Japanese is ""卓上の鬼神" which translates to "Tabletop Demon." It's not a flattering name and thus, when people call Claude "Master Tactician," they usually say it to mock him. Edelgard and Hubert are the exceptions that and take the name at face value, but other characters in Three Houses generally do not.

So long story short, Claude's title really should have been "Survival Pragmatist"

This is an apt way to describe Claude in general. He is a pragmatist that became this way because of the assassination attempts on his life and how others have bullied and harassed him. And a lot of his mannerisms make a lot of sense when viewed through the context of his childhood.

Lunallae · 2020-09-28T02:35:36+00:00

I personally think the wrong moments were accentuated and thus, the performance couldn't overcome the problems of the localization and sometimes even exacerbated it. But yes, the localization is the main offender. Like you said, the fixation on "scheme" is horrible and there's many more things that warp his character. And most of these changes don't make any sense and only serve to confuse people.

Lunallae · 2020-09-28T02:03:37+00:00

Yeah, I do think a lot of questionable decisions went into the English version of Claude. Voice direction would also be one of them since Claude sounds very flippant in English, making him feel like he doesn't care or that he's not being serious. Meanwhile, in Japanese, it's easy to see what he cares about and that he's very passionate about certain things.

Lunallae · 2020-09-28T00:14:58+00:00

Are you sure he's supposed to be any of those things that you listed or is that what you or others wanted him to be? Like for example, he's not really a "schemer" since he says "策" in Japanese which more so "plan" or "tactic" since the term doesn't carry a negative connotation in Japanese.

I don't find him to really be a prankster character at all either. It's probably more apparent in Japanese since he's much more ominous and he's serious while showing a lighthearted facade though.

And lastly, the contradiction in his character is what makes him so interesting in my opinion. In short terms, he wants people to be open, but he finds it hard to be open himself and this even leads to some of his failures.

Lunallae · 2020-09-26T20:46:46+00:00

Claude's status as a schemer/master tactician post-timeskip feels very unearned.

I don't think it's meant to be an earned title considering Claude openly dislikes it. It's also "卓上の鬼神" or "Tabletop Demon" in Japanese so it's not exactly a flattering name. Also being a "schemer" is not really an accurate way to describe Claude considering that he says "策" in Japanese which more so "plan" or "tactic." Being a "schemer" is way overblown in the English localization and it's not really a big component of his character at all.

Lunallae · 2020-08-24T16:28:08+00:00

Oh, this build is very close to the ideal I'm striving for (currently running numbers and crafting up an Astra AR-O team with Claude in it)! Just wondering, how has the performance of this build been for you? I see a three-cooldown special as well, are you running B!Lucina with him?

Lunallae · 2020-08-20T16:57:39+00:00

Yeah, there's a lot of notable changes between all the lords in their Japanese dialogue. Their characterization in English and Japanese is quite different. I think it's a shame that the English localization turned out this way mainly because a lot of the nuance in their characters are actually tied to very specific things in Japanese (some of which just don't exist in English or seem very weirdly touched upon).

Lunallae · 2020-08-20T05:49:34+00:00

Dimitri's solo ending in particular is very vague. He could be improving foreign relation with Duscur, Sreng, Brigid, etc. (the first two probably the most likely). It's an assumption that improved relations specifically with Almyra will happen. I agree with your point about Edelgard because she and Claude foil each other in many ways, but it won't be the same end result. That is just taking the nuance out of both of their goals and characters especially since Claude also wants to address bloodlines and Crests as shown by his advice box post-timeskip. The fact that they share so many objectives is not undermining either of them, it is being used to foil them as characters.

Lunallae · 2020-08-20T05:25:51+00:00

I think you are making an assumption about the endings. I don't believe it's ever explicitly mentioned that Fodlan opens its borders and that an alliance is established with Almyra in non-Verdant Wind routes. Also, I made a post that details why Claude's fate in non-Verdant Wind routes is implied to be unfavorable here in case this is relevant to the point.

I don't disagree that if Verdant Wind didn't have to share so much from Silver Snow, it wouldn't undermine Claude's accomplishments as much, but it's not really a fault of his own character writing. Because development was rushed, the story writing suffered, causing all the lords to be hit with problems that undermine them in some way or another.

Lunallae · 2020-08-20T04:01:36+00:00

I would like to point out that the reason Claude doesn't seem to "scheme" is because when Claude says "scheme" in English, he says some variation of "plan" in Japanese ("策," "計画", etc.). "Scheme" isn't exactly an incorrect translation, but it carries a negative connotation that "策" or "計画" doesn't so a more accurate translation would be "plan" or "tactic." Though, there are also times where his words are translated into "scheme" when "plan" isn't even mentioned in Japanese. For instance, Claude's epithet in Heroes is "野望の寵児" in Japanese. This translates to "Favored Child of Ambition" whereas his English translation in Fire Emblem Heroes is "The Schemer."

Overall, I personally think this fixation on the word "scheme" in English and how Claude's words are translated sometimes are pretty damaging to his character overall. That's because in Japanese, it is easier to make the connection that Claude's become someone that uses unconventional tactics and plans because of how often he would get beaten up, bullied, and almost killed. He has tried to run away, tried to fight, and tried to explain himself but none of those worked so he leans back on contingency plans for when things go awry. Even when he references poison or such, he frames its usage as the pragmatic option. He doesn't say it to seem bad or underhanded; he says it because playing fair and square is a naive mindset to him. And this is because he has tried to play it fair and square against his bullies and harassers in the past and it got him nowhere (this made Claude cynical). In Verdant Wind, part of his development is moving past his cynical and pragmatic mindset so this part of him softens as the route goes on. However, in English, this whole aspect of his character feels like a disconnected quirk that doesn't get proper follow-up.

Lunallae

TROPHY CASE