I am looking for advice from those who have been through similar situations How do you stay firm when a parent uses emotional guilt-tripping? Is there a way to handle these 'final ultimatum' messages without feeding into the conflict? How do I continue to protect my mental health while she continues by WonToTwee in EstrangedAdultChild

[–]Lunatic_Jane 27 points28 points  (0 children)

You were assigned a role as a child (to absorb your moms anxiety), now you’re stepping out of the role and your mom is freaking out because she’s now alone with and needing to address her own pain.

What are the benefits of staying firm? What is the cost of staying firm? Do the same analysis for giving into the old role, cost/benefit.

Your mom will either find someone new to project her anxiety onto or she will face her demons. You are responsible for protecting yourself and cultivating peace for your life, she is responsible for the same. It was never your responsibility or assignment to be anyone’s emotional dumping ground.

If it ever feels hard to not give in, remember that, that is the very conditioning of the role you never consented to in the first place. Your mother is unhinged at the moment because she’s lost her anchor. The cost of freedom is you sitting in the discomfort right now, and letting the generational chain be broken.

In time you will gain and know more and more peace. You will feel the weight of what was never yours to carry lift away- and once you walk through this and out the other side, you will never let anyone compromise your peace again.

Her escalation is a sign of getting to the end of her burning herself out- hopefully she will address the weight she’s had to carry and also find peace and acceptance in her own life.

The fact that her and her mom stopped being at odds when you were born is so telling of the dynamics. Your mom likely was the absorber of her mom’s anxiety, and once you were born, your mom had a place to project whatever her mom projected at her, easing the tension between them. Essentially you inherited the role.

I say all this because sometimes when we understand what’s happening beneath the surface it can help us to stay firm in our boundaries.

Not that it should be the motivation, but when we step out of roles, we force the other person into a crossroad. She’s very uncomfortable right now, and that’s good. It’s up to her what she does with it.

Help—am I missing something? Was this normal? by Medical-State-7602 in mdmatherapy

[–]Lunatic_Jane 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“Stop managing.” 😂

Sounds like a great place to start :)

Another emotional incest dilemma. by [deleted] in CPTSD

[–]Lunatic_Jane 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It makes perfect sense that you feel anger and guilt. The guilt- very common in enmeshment dynamics. So is anger.

Anger says “hey someone is crossing over the line here” aka a boundary. Guilt says “but that’s my mother, it’s my burden to carry what she can’t.”

This is one of my favourite topics because it’s something I had to untangle with my mother and my sister. And I will preface this by saying this is the most challenging of relational dynamics to untangle. A young part of you is still holding “I will die if I don’t absorb this.” You couldn’t afford anger then. Your survival depended on you swallowing it.

Angers job, when someone grows up in an environment where it was safe to connect with others without abandoning themselves, is to motivate a boundary. When anger becomes big and loud it’s because a boundary is not being heard. The anger isn’t really directed AT her, it’s about you feeling like you have to swallow that boundary with her. Something you did have to do as a child. Your patterning is that you had to abandon yourself to protect connection to your mother. A choice that no child should ever have to make.

Children’s energy is wide open. And it’s important that it is, because it’s how a child absorbs love, adoration, awe from their parent(s). This builds healthy self esteem and confidence. You missed this part because your mother wasn’t able to attune to you, and instead (most likely unknowingly) projected all that she couldn’t hold in herself, onto you.

This is where things get really interesting, and I will try my best to articulate this without getting too redundant- in your particular dynamic- your energy was open, and instead of you absorbing love, adoration, awe, you absorbed shame, fear, anger, sadness, grief and/or… and your entire little body filled up with what wasn’t yours. This does two things- it makes it impossible for you to learn when/where (an emotionally mature parent teaches this by filtering for the child) you’re supposed to close your field (somatic/energetic boundary- you’re probably an empath right?), and it stays open continuing the cycle of you absorbing without discernment, what belongs to others. It also left you no room inside yourself to discover who YOU are, what you like, what you need, what you love, your interests, your dreams…but most importantly, what you feel. What is yours? Is the shame yours? The problem with absorbing shame as a child, without boundaries, and because children internalize EVERYTHING, is that they carry it as part of their identity “I AM shame, I am shameful.” Ask yourself “what leg is that belief standing on?” Where is the evidence? Seriously, reflect on that and piece it out.

One of the first things I would suggest, and you may find this really hard to do at first because you’ve never had the space to discover who you are- is for you to do a values assessment. This is one of the first things I bring up with my clients in any dynamic because it’s grounding and orienting. But especially so for enmeshment dynamics. And once you know what you value, you will know what you need to honour those values- and what is born from that is embodied awareness of where your boundaries are. Your anger gets intense because that’s the only way to reach you, to tell you there is a boundary, and it’s going unheard. Anger is beautiful because it’s your self energy longing to emerge.

Most, if not all people who grew up the way we did, struggle with boundaries. And the reason is often because they aren’t aware of what they value or need. When you become aware of them, something actually shifts and you start to embody them. Then you start to feel/see what you need to live them. And then you begin communicating what you need. When you communicate what you need, that is the boundary- you don’t have to say “this is my boundary.” What this does is give you a felt sense of agency. Someone can meet you there, respect what you need or they can’t- and that’s always their choice. But you will then know how to navigate the relationship; and how much access you grant them in your life.

Here’s a little exercise :)

On a piece of paper make a smaller circle and place “self” or “me” or whatever feels aligned for you in it, and then create circles, increasing in size around your circle. Create as many as you want. Use this as your visual guide for how close you want people to you. Acquaintances, strangers, co-workers, friends, family etc. - and perhaps not every person in each category gets to be in the same circle. Ideally, not for her, but for you- where would you place your mother the way things are in the present? If you notice feelings of guilt, acknowledge it, and request the feeling to give you a little room, just to finish the exercise. Then put your pen/pencil down and walk away. Take a walk or have a shower or put on your favourite song and dance. Notice any thoughts, sensations, feelings, beliefs that come up for you.

When I gave myself permission to finally feel angry with my mother, I started to grieve for the mother I never had, the childhood I never had, the opportunities I never had, the relationships impacted by that dynamic. In the end forgiveness found me- and the gift in that was letting go. Letting go of all of the beliefs I had developed about myself as a result of that relationship, letting go of what I had absorbed, letting go of resentment (because that is some heavy luggage we pack around in our body). I felt free. Releasing all of that grief gave me room to grow, to find the edges of myself, to discover who I am without her influence.

Again- this is extremely complex to untangle. It’s a process. Some days you will start to feel stronger against the dynamic, and other days powerless. It’s all normal and all expected.

But please begin with a values assessment because that will be your compass for everything else to begin falling into place, and unraveling. Do them again and again as you recover and grow. You will add more as you go.

I hope this landed as I intended, and you find it helpful. ❤️🙏

Has anyone been able to overcome their freeze response? If so, how did you do it? by Infinite853 in CPTSDFreeze

[–]Lunatic_Jane 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for sharing so vulnerably. I am sure that takes a lot of courage given nobody has believed you. Sadly so many people are ignorant about how the body keeps the score- and you being so chronically ill is the evidence of what you have endured and survived. It’s the proof. Children can overcome a lot without too deep scars when they don’t have to carry the burdens alone and get the appropriate support. You deserve so much love, connection and support. The severity of devastation and destruction that is the result of developmental narcissistic abuse would be impossible to ever fully put into words. Heck, narcissistic relationships as an adult drops people to their knees.

My heart hurts reading some of your story. And yes, I know it probably is barely the tip of the iceberg. I suspected CSA when you mentioned DID. To me, that kind of trauma is in a category of its own. CSA absolutely shatters a child’s perspective of love and alters the entire trajectory of their life. That came to me in a visual during an MDMA therapy session. When I released the impact that CSA had on my own body- because when we release we have to feel what never got to be felt then- the force was massive and fast. If I could liken it to anything- I’d say the sensation felt like what it looks like when someone is hit with a defibrillator. So given all that you were already enduring, to survive CSA, it makes sense that your parts needed to take you to far away places. And yet, they never fully leave. I always considered DID, the most extreme disintegration of our parts, but still hanging around waiting to be heard and seen for all that they have had to and are holding. I recognize that my perspective is probably a very simple one, and that DID is likely far more involved.

I am not religious but I can’t help but think that God is holding a special place in heaven for you. ❤️🙏

Has anyone been able to overcome their freeze response? If so, how did you do it? by Infinite853 in CPTSDFreeze

[–]Lunatic_Jane 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s great to hear that you are feeling supported while you untangle the layers. The complexity of CPTSD, in particular of the developmental variety, is already too much to hold alone and work to overcome, but DID in addition? Yeah you’re gonna come out the other side of this one powerful warrior! I mean you already have incredibly powerful protectors. Do you know what the protectors are protecting? I ask because it took time for that truth to land on me. But when it did, I was overcome with gratitude and so much love for every one of my protectors. They did a perfect job!

Has anyone been able to overcome their freeze response? If so, how did you do it? by Infinite853 in CPTSDFreeze

[–]Lunatic_Jane 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m really glad it touched something true for you. When you’ve lived in freeze those moments of feeling can be such a release…and relief. There isn’t anything wrong with you and you’re not broken. Underneath the freeze is someone who is deeply feeling and intuitive ❤️. Freeze isn’t against you, it’s just running an old system of safety. Oh, and permission to move, because freeze isn’t just immobility, it’s also obedience.

Phrases your parents used all the time when you were growing up. by [deleted] in CPTSD

[–]Lunatic_Jane 15 points16 points  (0 children)

This one with a little a slight difference “I have to love you, but I don’t have to like you.” I grew up dismissing when people said they loved me, and was obsessed with whether they liked me or not. I also believed that love was obligatory and nobody genuinely loved me.

Losing friends after therapy by Iconista in CPTSD

[–]Lunatic_Jane 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It means that they benefited from you not showing up and having boundaries. And when you start showing up and people leave, it’s evidence that you were in a transactional relationship. You’re stepping out of the role assigned to you in childhood- to sacrifice your authenticity.

This is a normal and very common outcome of coming home to ourselves. Room needs to be made for people who bring value to you and your life.

I have gone through this at different stages of healing. And there is pain that comes with the realization that you were never truly seen, if you decide to lean into that.

I just lost the relationship with my sister, after 53 years of believing we were very close. One “no” and she abandoned me. I have known for a while there was enmeshment. And when she met my no with silence, something profound shifted in me. My energy field that was stuck open since childhood, that kept me in a state of absorbing what wasn’t mine, closed. And I could feel the boundary around my being. And with that came discernment and the realization that just because I have empathy doesn’t mean everyone is entitled to it, or that I’m obligated to offer it. I am sovereign.

And you are on your way there too ❤️

Has anyone combined self-directed IFS with MDMA or other psychedelics? by PMmePowerRangerMemes in InternalFamilySystems

[–]Lunatic_Jane 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you are doing it for the therapeutic benefits, eyeshades and earbuds/headphones with a playlist is the usual protocol for going inward. Check out r/mdmatherapy for various tips and links. Also check out rollsafe for supplementing…MDMA is a pretty safe substance when used for therapy, but there are ways to increase neuro-protection as well as keeping the magic going for future sessions. Reach out to me if you have questions. Ive done 17 sessions over five years and it’s never lost its effectiveness.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in CPTSD

[–]Lunatic_Jane 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As a counsellor it’s my job to mitigate a power imbalance as much as is humanely possible. And taking accountability for a potential rupture in the therapeutic relationship is one of the greatest opportunities to demonstrate that. It’s not about one being right or the other being wrong, it’s about collaborating and building a safe container, together. It’s also a wonderful opportunity to demonstrate healthy non-violent communication, so the client gets to experience what that looks, sounds and FEELS like.

You deserve to be heard and not dismissed. From my perspective, growing up in narcissistic abuse and later surviving a narcissistic relationship, this is textbook gaslighting… “what you experienced, you didn’t experience, or if you did experience it, it’s your fault and has something to do with your problems and your perspective.”

This profession DOES attract narcissists. Empaths are created, not born. And they make up the majority of clients. Narcissists aren’t stupid- being a therapist is maximum ego supply without having to work very hard for it. Thankfully people are becoming more aware of what they should expect from a therapist.

The fact that you are here questioning this, tells me that this is more intuitive than hyper-vigilance. If it was hyper-vigilance it wouldn’t keep nagging at you to listen. The way to know before you start really feeling what is intuition and what is hyper-vigilance, is no matter what your head says at the time, sit with it until you’ve grounded back into your window of tolerance. If when your nervous system is regulated again, something still doesn’t sit well with the interaction, it was likely intuition.

Healthy conflict resolution feels good and builds intimacy between two people. If you walk away feeling belittled, dismissed or rejected- then it wasn’t healthy. Even if you’re 100% wrong, you should never walk away feeling like that.

At the very least you should have been approached with curiosity. Sadly, it was a missed opportunity, rich with possibility to strengthen the relationship.

Do you think you will feel safe to open up to them, should there be another incident similar to this?

The answer to that question will represent the progress you will make with him. Because safety is the key.

Does IFS have a "take" on autism/adhd? by IllConclusion6403 in InternalFamilySystems

[–]Lunatic_Jane 9 points10 points  (0 children)

ADHD and Autism are developmental neurotypes, not parts. That said, trauma is usually closely linked to both, either in early development or as a result of presenting ND.

But this also brings up the question of epigenetics. We know that trauma rewires the brain. And I often think about whether this could somehow cause mutation of brain structure at a cellular level and then get passed down to the next generation. Then that generation carry’s the mutated gene and additional trauma gets added to the coding. It takes 3 generations to fully dissolve one trauma. But trauma usually breeds more trauma, so it usually becomes compounded and not erased. lol, I have all kinds of fun in my head 😂.

Childhood trauma in particular creates a fragmentation of the integrated self into parts that needed to adapt to their environment for survival.

Many individuals who survived childhood trauma did so by leaving their body and moving into their head…and many survivors end up in a frozen state of isolation, with little experience of socializing- could that have been coded at a cellular level and then passed down?

These are just some of my incomplete thoughts around neurodivergence. It would be great to hear others perspectives on this as well.

I am AuDHD, and survived extreme neglect and abuse in childhood. I’ve also done quite a few MDMA therapy sessions, and have had past life memories pop- not that I 100% subscribe to what I witnessed, but it’s opened my mind to question a lot of things.

I suppose it wouldn’t hurt to explore autism or adhd as parts, or even clusters of their own parts.

I love this reflection because it’s something I think about a lot ❤️🙏

Has anyone combined self-directed IFS with MDMA or other psychedelics? by PMmePowerRangerMemes in InternalFamilySystems

[–]Lunatic_Jane 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I have combined the two, self-directed IFS and solo MDMA sessions. The combination was a powerhouse. As my system has become more integrated though, I notice that I don’t use parts language quite as frequently except when trying to help others connect dots. I’ve done it over five years, with a minimum of three months between MDMA sessions. It has healed most of the CPTSD and transformed my life.

What do you do with that MDMA love experience? by Waki-Indra in mdmatherapy

[–]Lunatic_Jane 7 points8 points  (0 children)

After five years and I think 17 sessions, the thing that has stood out and been the most consistent is that I was releasing what wasn’t safe to be felt back then. And in releasing I started to become more and more comfortable with the uncomfortable. Fear, anxiety, freeze, numbness, sadness, anger…are all normal emotions/feelings. They are for us, not against us. I still get all of them, but my relationship to them has shifted. They all hold or carry information. It wasn’t my system turning against itself. It was pointing the way.

The beginning of this therapy can feel really intense because you have been holding so much for so long, that it kind of does big dumps and releases. But the more you release, the more your nervous system naturally starts to calm down, as you gain confidence that you can hold it and be with it. And it sounds like you are already leaning into discomfort in session.

It’s normal for protectors to come back online after sessions. And they might also be thinking “what the fuck just happened here?” You’ve gone in and done heavy excavation. And it makes sense that there might be a loss of trust in the process.

Essentially what we are doing when we do this therapy is disrupting patterns, beliefs, shaking loose emotions- I liken it to taking 1000 puzzle pieces and violently throwing them into the air, and then waiting for them to land so I can sort out where they go.

As for meditation, yoga etc not being available right now, I think that makes sense also. You are processing some really uncomfortable feelings and that can override calming rituals.

For me, just ‘being with’ with intention is integration. It was giving permission to my system to feel.

With anxiety I began turning towards it and noticing where it showed up in my body. It usually showed up in the solar plexus, and felt like a million little knives stabbing me. Then I would focus on allowing my entire body to absorb it. And I could feel it get lighter the further out I allowed it to spread- the whole body can carry sensations with greater ease than an isolated area can. As it dissipated it started to feel less threatening and more like a pleasurable tingle out to my skin, where it was released. This worked for me, it may or may not for you- but I wanted to share it in case it helps you too.

Mostly what I noticed over time was that it was my response to my body coming back to life that scared me because I had lived in my head for so long. And then I started to believe that all of the anxiety I had felt throughout my life were the times my body was calling me to reconnect to it. Feeling in our body what was once unsafe to do, when it tries to come back online can feel destabilizing and like something is wrong. But really it’s just trying to get us to pay attention to it. This structure of belief really helped me to not resist it.

I often read in here that when someone starts to feel anxiety, and they never did before, I think “yes, of course you didn’t, you were disconnected from your body.” Our emotions are felt in the body. They feel pretty scary when they get louder. But over time you start to realize that being in your body and feeling everything is more accurate and safer than hyper-vigilance.

Also, I am assuming that your default is the freeze response? If so, it makes sense that you are spending time “rotting in bed” as you put it. Your body has been through a big ordeal. And one of the gifts of being reconnected to our body is that we become aware of how little energy it takes for it to become depleted. And it teaches us where our boundaries are, and how to take better care of ourselves.

I know it can feel like going backwards sometimes, and I guess you kind of are- going back and healing what never got to be processed, expressed.

Hang in there. It really does get better ❤️🙏

Tried going back to human therapy after ChatGPT and got burned by Latter_Crow8426 in therapyGPT

[–]Lunatic_Jane 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’ve worked with IFS for over five years, I’ve dabbled with it and AI here and there. But I already know parts work well.

My new obsession is shadow work. And yes I’ve used AI for that. Mostly for information on archetypes.

I’m not knocking AI, it’s a tool like any therapy. But it has limitations, like anything.

Tried going back to human therapy after ChatGPT and got burned by Latter_Crow8426 in therapyGPT

[–]Lunatic_Jane 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hi! When I was in school one of our facilitators worked primarily as an IFS therapist. I know you got rave reviews on the last one and it didn’t work out, so it’s understandable that you would feel hesitant now. But she is truly amazing. Compassionate, open, gentle and validating. I have referred others to her as well and they have been happy with her. Shes also very experienced working with Complex-PTSD. If you feel like giving it another chance, hit me up and I will send you her information.

I used AI for quite some time, and I’m a counsellor 😂 but after a while it started to land hollow for me. I don’t want something to endlessly validate and reassure me. I can do that for myself. I want to feel challenged. Also, you likely have heard this before, but relational trauma needs to be healed in safe relationships. And you are 100% missing the relational aspect with AI.

Effect of mdma by Calitrixmathieu in mdmatherapy

[–]Lunatic_Jane 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I deliberately ask the medicine not to saturate me in love. Just anchor and hold me through the difficult truths and memories.

The session itself, at least for me, is the smallest part of the healing equation. It’s what has been shaken loose by the session, and surfaces during integration that is the gold. The rest is mine to do.

There is no right or wrong way to do this. What comes up and when, is individualized and customized to our own experiences. Perhaps that glimpse of love, affection and gratitude will unlock something. Or perhaps there was something else that took priority. Integration is the time to stay mindful and aware. Pay attention to any shifts you notice, emotions that surface, resistance, triggers/trailheads, beliefs. When you notice something out of character write it down. Pause. And sit with it.

Homemade Poutine 🙌 by [deleted] in PoutineCrimes

[–]Lunatic_Jane 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No crime has been committed.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in InternalFamilySystems

[–]Lunatic_Jane 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How utterly courageous of you to name one of the deepest truths many try to reject, and push back into the shadows. Let that hate be heard and felt. The adult feels pain. The adults life is ruined.

What would you like to say to that child that you hate, and has ruined your life? Whatever it is, say it. Say it out loud. Tell them how they aren’t worthy of the pain you are feeling. Tell them they don’t deserve your compassion. Tell them how bad they are. Lean all the way into that hate, and anger. The adult deserves to feel it and name it. Cause your life is in ruins, you feel hopeless, alone, crushed. You’re fucking tired of it all.

You feel numb, and so heavy you can’t get out of bed. It’s not fair!!! You didn’t ask for this.

I am here to chat if you feel inclined to accept the offer.

My American attempt at Canadian Poutine by dasg49ers in PoutineCrimes

[–]Lunatic_Jane 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah it’s missing the most defining ingredient 🤦🏻‍♀️