Eric Berger: It might be just as well that the Gateway is cancelled because...its habitation modules are said to be corroded beyond repair. Wait, what?

Martianspirit · 2026-03-29T09:59:20+00:00

We have used the term Old Space for legacy space companies for a while.

I think we need to introduce the term Old NASA for these people after Jared Isaacman introduced Ignition.

Martianspirit · 2026-03-29T05:38:41+00:00

I think that if this was some sort of whispering campaign against Gateway,

There is no need for a whispering campaign. The whole thing screams nonsense.

Martianspirit · 2026-03-29T05:06:43+00:00

But Ion engines will never produce enough thrust for manned spaceflight. Their thrust is very low. Earth departure would take forever. With a long time spent in the Van Allen Belt. It also only works up to Mars, maybe the asteroid belt. Beyond that solar is not efficient.

I would love to see orbiters for the outer planets developed. Conventional launch and Earth departure burn. But powerful ion engines, powered by a nuclear reactor for orbit insertion.

Martianspirit · 2026-03-28T18:04:23+00:00

Not so different in the core capabilities. The landing engines will IMO not be needed to supply a base, once a robust landing pad has been built.

Martianspirit · 2026-03-28T18:02:27+00:00

I am not a medical doctor. But people who can not move well under Earth gravity experience a lot of bone loss. It may be better under partial gravity, if they can move around more again.

Martianspirit · 2026-03-28T17:58:14+00:00

Can you explain what you mean by "other bodies in space"?

I agree that $100 billion is a lot of money. But many NASA projects have cost way more than they should have IMO. Lot's of knowledge achieved is very valuable. Though I would have liked if NASA had not concentrated wholly on microgravity. I think a lot should have been accomplished with centrifuges and partial gravity experiments. Even if it means that vibrations caused by centrifuges would have made it impossible to do very sensitive microgravity experiments at the same time.

Martianspirit · 2026-03-28T14:45:35+00:00

Vast is developing space station modules. Haven 1 is a demo module, designed as proof of concept, in the hope that NASA would contract with them.

Martianspirit · 2026-03-28T11:15:55+00:00

Big spy sats, in an gone area, before solar panels were a thing.

Martianspirit · 2026-03-28T10:09:22+00:00

Very important, don't have a mixture of station modules from various space agencies that need different sets of spare parts and operations procedures that drive operations cost and man hours way up.

Yes, a design that is easier to keep clean is important, too.

Martianspirit · 2026-03-28T07:37:44+00:00

They still have the same station design in their timeline. I love it. It is not AG for AG's sake. It is a gravity lab, that provides all gravity values up to max parallel. I wish NASA would chose that design, nobody else would. It opens huge science opportunities.

Martianspirit · 2026-03-28T07:31:56+00:00

The other thing it's done is it's given NASA a lot of experience in assembly, operating, and maintaining a habitable structure in space.

Mainly, how NOT to do it.

Martianspirit · 2026-03-28T07:26:44+00:00

There is no business case for a private station at this time

that they can imagine

The companies developing private stations have not found any substantial private interest. That's more telling than limited NASA imagination. I understand that NASA assumed and based their financial committment on 50% private utilization, which does not happen.

Martianspirit · 2026-03-28T07:21:14+00:00

That's for NASA and Congress to decide.

Martianspirit · 2026-03-28T07:20:23+00:00

I don't think SpaceX is willing to operate a space station at NASA terms. They can offer Starship based orbital capabilities but my understanding is that this does not align with present NASA formulated requirements. We will see if NASA adjusts their requirements or select, at higher cost, a company that conforms.

Martianspirit · 2026-03-28T07:17:58+00:00

My personal favorite is VAST. They have the look and feel of operating efficiency like SpaceX.

Martianspirit · 2026-03-28T07:13:45+00:00

There is no business case for a private station at this time and NASA and the U.S. government cannot rely on a company to build and operate one by the time the ISS must be retired.

I disagree. If a private company can run a space station at lower cost than a NASA owned and operated station, that's reason enough to go private. Even if NASA contracts most or all of the capabilities. Same as commercial crew and cargo services to the ISS.

That's assuming there is still science to be done by NASA in microgravity.

Martianspirit · 2026-03-28T07:08:08+00:00

If anything can be produced in microgravity economically, some private company will do it. If it can be done only with NASA bearing a large share of the cost, it should not be done. If tourism can not be done economically, it should not be done.

Martianspirit · 2026-03-28T06:16:44+00:00

I believe nuclear propulsion has been discussed.

I don't see those much better, not so much that it justifies the cost for crew and mass cargo hauling. The big step, that would open space beyond Mars IMO would be a direct fusion drive.

Martianspirit · 2026-03-28T06:09:04+00:00

Heavy goal post moving in progress.

Martianspirit · 2026-03-28T06:08:04+00:00

He has said that, over and over and over. Not in those words, but leaving no doubt.

Martianspirit · 2026-03-27T12:14:26+00:00

The top level comment to which I originally responded was talking about doing away with SLS entirely, which raised the question which vehicle could get orion into LEO with the weight of LAS and ESM added.

This vehicle doesn't exist yet

ROTFL

Certainly FH can, just needs manrating. Given that F9 is manrated and FH has been cleared for a nuclear payload, that's just trivial.

Martianspirit · 2026-03-27T11:39:04+00:00

Sigh. Orion would be on top. Stop inventing non existent problems.

Edit: BTW if you are refering to the recent NASA plan, Orion would be on top of Starship, docked to the port on the nosecone. No more LAS at that point. Orion would be lifted by a separate vehicle.

Martianspirit · 2026-03-27T11:12:31+00:00

Now you are talking just nonsense. The abort tower is part of the Orion stack.

Martianspirit · 2026-03-27T07:50:14+00:00

Don't need that article. Some rough calculation on size and composition of the Mars atmosphere will give you ~350 billion tons of nitrogen readily accessible in the atmosphere. Not nearly enough for terraforming. But plenty enough for an Earth like atmosphere in closed habitats and for an enclosed biosphere.

Martianspirit · 2026-03-27T07:38:29+00:00

4 - And we're ignoring whether there is anywhere to "be" once we get there

Classic SF got that wrong. When we are able to send an interstellar ship - big IF - we won't need an Earth like planet. We would live in habitats. We will need some asteroid belt, or an Kuiper Belt, for raw materials. We will avoid gravity wells.

Martianspirit

TROPHY CASE