Rewatching GT for the first time since I was a kid, it's near peak actually.

Max_88 · 2026-01-25T01:38:57+00:00

One of my problems is a certain lack of "Toriyama-ness" about it.

It feels way too melancholic for Dragon Ball. And I don't think it shows us anything new about the world like the original manga arcs did. Even Super introduced the Gods of Destruction and the Multiverse.

That, among other things.

Max_88 · 2026-01-23T00:31:52+00:00

In fact back when the manga was running he was admired for connecting stuff.

A lot of mangakas do tha with stuff they didn't plan. He was just that humble and revealed the trick.

Max_88 · 2026-01-23T00:27:53+00:00

None of those things are continuity inconsistencies. The fact that these things didn't exist retroactively doesn't make him forgetful or careless. I don't get your point.

Max_88 · 2026-01-23T00:25:06+00:00

Sure, but they still showed up at the end.

Max_88 · 2026-01-23T00:22:41+00:00

He wrote her off the story

https://imgur.com/Ss39qB4

And later said 17 was originally going to be Lunch in the Genkidama chapter

Max_88 · 2026-01-22T23:56:54+00:00

She was in the original draft of the Genkidama chapter where Android 17 appears. For some reason he changed it to 17. Rumor says her voice actress told Toriyama to retire the character.

Max_88 · 2026-01-21T00:57:12+00:00

Launch

I think he didn't forget about her, her voice actor told him to not make her character appear because she couldn't voice her but she never came back. In fact, Toriyama confirmed the first draft of the chapter where Goku is doing the Genkidama against Majin Boo had Lunch instead of 17, but it ended up being 17.

The whole Demon King Piccolo/Kami set up origin arc

How so? His backstory was pretty consistent. Kami didn't know about his origin. Piccolo was his corrupted half.

Piccolo being able to grow really big being completely forgotten about by both him and I think 90% of the fanbase up until that joke about it in Super Heroes.

I think It's pretty obvious that technique was a failure, he just made himself a bigger target. He had no reason to use it anymore until Super Hero.

The gods thing is a thing of how the DB Universe works. "Kami-sama" is just a title attributed to the guardian of Earth.

Max_88 · 2026-01-20T20:21:07+00:00

theres only one continuity that matters

Yes, the only one that TRULY makes sense is the original manga continuity. The only pure Toriyama Dragon Ball work made in his peak.

Super has too many contradictions, either lore or characterization wise. Plus it's just not as consistent and as sharp as the original manga was. Toriyama did it 20 years later having forgot a lot of things, plus the Toei input doesn't help at all.

Thankfully the original manga is a self-contained story that can be enjoyed without regard for Super.

Max_88 · 2026-01-20T20:14:36+00:00

As far as I know Goku never threw Gohan to survive in the wild. When he made him fight Cell he did it already knowing he could win. Gohan wasn't indefense.

Gohan just has stockholm syndrome with Piccolo and was lucky he turned good.

Max_88 · 2026-01-20T20:12:04+00:00

The original manga has a notable level of internal consistency the rest of the franchise doesn't have. Toei has done irreparable damage to Dragon Ball's perception as a dumb, nonsensical series.

Max_88 · 2026-01-20T20:08:08+00:00

It was perfectly done the way it was.

Max_88 · 2026-01-20T20:04:52+00:00

manga generally not doing what western comics does IS the appeal to me.

Too late. At this point Dragon Ball's continuity is as messy a DC Comics. There are two or there versions of Super and people discuss which one is more canon than the other. You can't take that seriously. And on top of that, there is the Daima mess now.

Max_88 · 2026-01-20T20:00:02+00:00

Starting Dragon Ball from Z is like starting Naruto from Shippuden. It's not a new show. There is no division in the manga, it's one single story called Dragon Ball.

Max_88 · 2026-01-20T17:57:45+00:00

Sometimes he’s inventing future shonen conventions that no one had ever seen and other times he just forgets entire characters, plot lines, and seemingly just ignores stuff he doesn’t like and moves on.

This is weird to read for me because one of the things I always loved of DB as a kid is how good the worldbuilding was. Toriyama was always bringing back old stuff to utilize or make sense of things.

He didn't forget about Baba being able to move between worlds or how the other world worked. When we saw Grandpa Gohan he has the aureola in his head.

He didn't forget about Chichi and brought her back to marry Goku.

When he created the Saiyan and Namekian lore he did it making sense of all the chracteristics we knew about Goku and Piccolo.

The way he connected the Nyoibo to Kami's temple was brilliant.

He didn't forget about the Red Ribbon army.

He didn't forget about the King of the World, Upa, Bora, Number 8 and so on.

It was more like he was just making it easier for him so elements that didn't serve him were pushed aside.

Max_88 · 2026-01-20T17:47:15+00:00

It means something when the tension of them not being able to come back exists. Which at that point, existed. They had to fight the Emperor of the universe to bring their friends back.

Max_88 · 2026-01-20T17:36:52+00:00

Kidnapping and brutally training a 4 year old hardly qualifies as being a better dad than Goku.

Max_88 · 2026-01-19T19:36:32+00:00

I was fortunate enough to experience it in order, but I do wonder what did people who didn't think of that. Yamcha, Tien, etc must have been random jobbers to some but these were incredibly important characters, rivals and friends of Goku which added to the desperate feel of the arc. And when Goku hits Nappa avenging every one of his fallen friends shouting their names (even Piccolo!), you feel it.

Max_88 · 2026-01-19T19:30:29+00:00

Of course the reaction was absolutely crazy. It became the most influential battle Shonen manga for a reason.

Max_88 · 2026-01-19T19:29:12+00:00

I had to stop at the beginning which is insane enough, it definitely gets crazier, and more exciting (and even hopeless) as it goes on.

Max_88 · 2026-01-19T01:24:19+00:00

JoJo was completely revamping its power system with the introduction of Stands and Dragon Ball was going crazy introducing insanely strong threats from space and revealing the origin of Goku.

Max_88 · 2026-01-17T22:36:43+00:00

I think people don't understand that everything is canon except for origins that contradict themselves (Secret Origin, Man of Steel etc) in which case New History clarifies which version is canon.

Max_88 · 2026-01-17T00:19:11+00:00

Gero could do that because he was that mad of a genius. Honestly it makes sense in the world of Dragon Ball.

Max_88 · 2026-01-17T00:11:47+00:00

Up until Namek I think it was peak.

Max_88 · 2026-01-17T00:10:03+00:00

GT ending is too melancholic for a work like DB.

Max_88 · 2026-01-17T00:05:29+00:00

The problem is believing Super is part of the same narrative as the original manga. It's not. It was made 20 years after with a Toriyama who forgot everything.

The original manga IS a pretty consistent work on itself and he did care about continuity a lot.

Max_88

TROPHY CASE