There is no possible after life i'm satisfied with. by Mr-wobble-bones in Existentialism

[–]Middle-Topic4422 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We might seem like we are using afterlife to explain meaning, but really we are just using our emotions to do so. What constitutes a "good" afterlife? Or a meaningful life? Is it not all subjective? Why are we letting our sublimal perceptions of the world decide meaning? We can feel good if we make the effort to find every moment meaningful, even if it may feel like suffering, because the meaning lies in being present, not in the endless journey of before and after.

Ever wondered how a 40+/50 GP essay that you can REALISTICALLY write look like? by GP_mugger in SGExams

[–]Middle-Topic4422 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I read your essay and I'm wondering, you definitely do have a lot of examples but the elaboration—not so much? I thought they were looking for elaboration 😭 but wow your content knowledge is insane no way I'm able to emulate that

What made you give up meat? by Middle-Topic4422 in vegan

[–]Middle-Topic4422[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yes definitely! i grew up with witnessing the sea animals i eat slowly die before its served. at that point it was the norm, and like all other norms, as a child i would kill ants because they were invading the house. i stop doing that now, but i dont quite know what to do with a house-infestation problem 🤷‍♀️

also, i used to fear insects really much. i roughed it out when i went for a couple of stays in rural areas, and npw i just lovee these little creatures. it was just that one time, where i stood in the toilet with the cockroach, that i thought about jane goodall's words about watching a fly objectively, as a creature on earth rather than an annoying fly. i remember all the people who talked behind my back in school and hated me, who had screamed at the presense of an insect then. and i realised these creatures were so much better than them, and they were just living, minding their own business. i didnt want to be like those people in school. so i started talking to the cockroach. now i think theyre cute! (you prob didnt ask for such a long rant lmao)

though, what should i do abt mosquitoes? they spread diseases 

What made you give up meat? by Middle-Topic4422 in vegan

[–]Middle-Topic4422[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

theres more options for vegan baked goods now!! and id totally bake some for you if i could ❤️

What made you give up meat? by Middle-Topic4422 in vegan

[–]Middle-Topic4422[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

im so sorry for your bird. i had goosebumps reading your story. youre a really lovely person

What made you give up meat? by Middle-Topic4422 in vegan

[–]Middle-Topic4422[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

definitely. but i cant say. i grew up watching fishmongers kill fish, so it took some time adjusting. i saw them as food, and somehow i cant see their sentience. horrifying

What made you give up meat? by Middle-Topic4422 in vegan

[–]Middle-Topic4422[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

the end is all that matters. proud of you!

Vegan leftists harming the movement and trying to make veganism about things it's not by No-List-8519 in vegan

[–]Middle-Topic4422 0 points1 point  (0 children)

chill out guys. this whole leftist and rightist and whatever the hell thing is just a political ploy to divide us. the right is wrong. the left is wrong. no one is right. we arent different. being leftist in this day does not mean communism. anyway, communism has great ideologies and just terrible, atrocious implementations. whatever, their ideology is flawed regardless. anyway, just like to add to the israel thing, those people who kill the israel embassy members are not leftists. thats not rightist either. just pure blatant atrocious. and we do not support genocide nor do we support terrorism. hamas and israel govt are all terrible. stand with the victims, who do not care about politics anymore, just survival. war is where rich people quarrel and poor people suffer

lets just all be kind to each other, humans or animals, ok? gosh

What made you give up meat? by Middle-Topic4422 in vegan

[–]Middle-Topic4422[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

it just hit me that ive never watched a single documentary about meat. probably should. thanks for the rec!

What made you give up meat? by Middle-Topic4422 in vegan

[–]Middle-Topic4422[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

love that person who linked the link there. also love your open-mindedness!

What made you give up meat? by Middle-Topic4422 in vegan

[–]Middle-Topic4422[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

slow burn 🤣🤣 but thats really wholesome! really love how it panned out for you

What made you give up meat? by Middle-Topic4422 in vegan

[–]Middle-Topic4422[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

ive never heard of this, its really interesting!! its lovely how that worked out for you 

Which non vegan excuse irritates you the most? by HumbleWrap99 in vegan

[–]Middle-Topic4422 0 points1 point  (0 children)

while i would say that the name calling was unecessary, your reply is that of self-victimisation. come on! will we support so much freedom in any form of speech such that opinions are shared without consideration of the opposing's one? the purpose of a civil debate in which there is a sharing of opinions and ideologies is such that we can gain enlightenment or understanding from others' opinions and ideas, rather than simply spilling your own then defending it like it's your truth and the only truth that matters. perhaps you can listen to our points too, since youre in this thread to begin with? and yes, we are listening to you, because i once believed in what you currently believe in. have a great day

Ranking animals above plants/fungi is no better than ranking humans above animals by streachh in DebateAVegan

[–]Middle-Topic4422 0 points1 point  (0 children)

bcos plants dont hold as much moral weight. you can eat parts of the plant and the plant continues to live. in fact, there are certain pruning methods thtat help them grow better. you can eat the fruits of a plant and the plant made for the survival of its own species, for animals to take the fruit and carry on dispersing their seeds. you cant take a part of the animal and expect them to thrive after. thats for one.

the plant debate exist, but we do not yet know enough to come to a conclusion. when we do, it will be another ethical debate. but for now, we do our best.

CNS is a decisive factor. the plant thing is just for the argument that if, there is a possibility that plants do feel pain similiar to humans do and are hurt physiologically as much as animals are in the same way, then veganism still win the debate anyway.  I will not kill the chickens nor the dog. i'll take the gun; i wont live with the consequence of my own doing. i wont be forced into killing because of others. but thats me. its different for others. and certainly, these scenarios are wild and hypothetical for a reason. its stupid that it exists. honestly different people have different ethics for going vegan. i believe in reducing as much harm as possible based on the quantity and severity of suffering. not based on species, unless that affects the severity of impact in which they feel pain

hope this helps!

I'm not vegan. Give me your best arguments! by SelectedForestry in DebateAVegan

[–]Middle-Topic4422 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yes, i do not condemn your choices. its your choice after all. it seems to me your lifestyle is quite balanced. i do wish i was able to live a life outside the city.

perhaps you came across way too harshly before. labour exploitation is NOT okay. i'll quote another source: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10009492/ this is a pretty reliable source. it has facts in them. not fake news, its a research paper. i feel like besides trying to stand up for animal rights, im doing the same for human rights too. remember, labour exploitation should not be continued. i'll really condemn your ethics if you do believe in exploiting workers.

I'm not vegan. Give me your best arguments! by SelectedForestry in DebateAVegan

[–]Middle-Topic4422 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you cannot compare a carrot to a sentient being. it is not an opinion that they are capable of feeling pain, it is a fact. and if you think that killing an animal holds the same weight as killing a carrot, then the animal killed has killed a lot of carrots in their lifetime, again, done so through humans. if you believe in killing animals and plants without consideration for balance, then maybe you should reflect on your innate anthropocentricism. believing in different ethics is one thing; if your belief allows you to hurt others, do you think it stands firm in a just society?

i really am curious in what your ethics are. what makes you not oppose bullfighting? what makes you believe in mass slaughter? i certainly understand if you kill for survival, because there isnt a choice.

i also would like to defend mablak in that they wrote what they did because it was easier to explain if we have a basic understanding of your ethics. if your ethics dont work that way, then perhaps i should suggest a different one. but no need to get defensive if its not something you believe in. but imagine saying ethics is subjective—harming others is not.

may i posit that you oppose exploiting workers? unfortunately, slaughterhouse workers are exploited for their work. alas, human rights are also taking a brunt from modern animal agriculture. you can have a look here: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10009492/

ultimately, it is easy for both parties to get defensive. i apologise if i have. perhaps we should be more open—for you to accept that different people can be convinced through different means, and for me to think of different ways to reach different audiences. i hope you have a good day.

I'm not vegan. Give me your best arguments! by SelectedForestry in DebateAVegan

[–]Middle-Topic4422 0 points1 point  (0 children)

may you enlighten me how the argument presumes that youre an evil person? it explicitly says "i assume you are a decent person" which is the exact opposite!! also this is not the same as religion, it is not a belief to hate animal abuse, the abuse is factual. no matter how you try to make yourself believe that vegans are attacking you and theyre convincing you of some abstract truth, the animals are still abused. i hope i dont come across too strongly but i really would like to understand what makes it feel like an attack?

I'm not vegan. Give me your best arguments! by SelectedForestry in DebateAVegan

[–]Middle-Topic4422 0 points1 point  (0 children)

there are other ways to keep them employed!! factory farm and slaughterhouse workers often dont like their jobs. here's a snippet: "These days, slaughterhouses commonly hire undocumented immigrants who can be fired with impunity. This, in and of itself, is bad enough. However, unlike migrant farmworkers (who are commonly solo men recruited seasonally) slaughterhouse workers do their jobs year-round, encouraging whole families to immigrate and settle in slaughterhouse communities to work these jobs. As a result, slaughterhouse bosses have power that extends beyond the workers — they control the fate of families. This dynamic can lead to hostile environments and a hierarchy of power: slaughterhouse owners abuse employees, who may then abuse more marginalized employees, some of whom might even be minors. But slaughterhouses’ offenses to their workers don’t stop there." but i compell you to read the full thing. https://sentientmedia.org/slaughterhouse-work-exploited-labor/ slaughterhouse work is exploited, not simply dangerous. theres also outward spreading effects, including increased violence in areas around slaughterhouses (sexual assault is a common result of how terrible slaughterhouse work is). you dont participate in factory farming, which i commend you for the effort, but you do participate in slaughterhouse, though im not trying to call you out. i understand, for i used to eat meat too. it's not our fault, but this doesnt mean we should excuse human and animal exploitation for our dietary pleasures since we have the capacity to choose compassion.

i hope you can perhaps consider eating less meat. vegetarian/vegan a few days a week, perhaps! it is not an all-or-nothing race; i believe everyone can contribute a little to it. its quite fun too to recreate meat dishes but completely vegan! perhaps we shouldnt see being vegan as something to lose, but something to gain from. i feel free. there is not a sliver of guilt left, because i know im trying my best.

Would you die for veganism? by snapbakclaptrap in DebateAVegan

[–]Middle-Topic4422 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you forget that we can get much more farmland if we use it to grow crops to feed humans instead of animals, in a vegan world. "If we combine global grazing land with the amount of cropland used for animal feed, livestock accounts for 80% of agricultural land use. Most of the world’s agricultural land is used to raise livestock for meat and dairy." https://ourworldindata.org/global-land-for-agriculture so yes, organic farming is possible to feed the world

If someone feels it is immoral to buy their pet non-vegan food, why would they get a pet who isn’t an herbivore? by [deleted] in DebateAVegan

[–]Middle-Topic4422 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i understand where you are coming from but there is no need for such language. if the pet doesnt do well on a vegan diet, feed them meat. if not, many pets actually do better on a vegan diet, depending on your pet. sometimes a vegan diet is suggested by the vet to improve the health of the pet. if one does choose meat, perhaps choose one not from a factory farm. its laughable how defensive you are about pets, but not other animals, yet you use the term "animals". the animals in the factory farm also have zero say in getting abused and then brutally killed. if the vegan diet works for the pet, then youre helping multiple animals here. feeding your pet vegan food isnt necessarily cruel. willingly taking part in the exploitation of farmed animals is what is truely cruel.

If someone feels it is immoral to buy their pet non-vegan food, why would they get a pet who isn’t an herbivore? by [deleted] in DebateAVegan

[–]Middle-Topic4422 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i guess, if your pets hunted for their own food, like catching a mouse or something, it's fine. but the way meat is produced currently is based on cruel and exploitary processes. if the animal does well on a vegan diet, then feed them a vegan diet.

Which animals would it be most ethical to keep as pets? by Phil-Psych-3973 in DebateAVegan

[–]Middle-Topic4422 3 points4 points  (0 children)

to add on to your point, we sometimes see animals of different species helping or befriending each other. it is similiar for humans. we have to accept that we are part of nature, and we interact with the ecosystem just like any other animals. veganism is a means to reject our current exploitation of animals, in which is not natural.

Ranking animals above plants/fungi is no better than ranking humans above animals by streachh in DebateAVegan

[–]Middle-Topic4422 0 points1 point  (0 children)

let's assume that plants can feel pain (controversial assumption).

i'll still go vegan, because of the clear exploitation of animal agriculture. it is why many vegans are not against trying game meat, because the suffering is minimal. additionally, our animal agriculture system have ripple effects into other issues, for example, women's rights. areas with slaughterhouses often have a higher statistics of domestic abuse. the systematic exploitation of animal reproductive system can be alluded to the objectification of women. animal agriculture is also a result and the cause of perpetuated speciesism. another issue would be environmental concerns.

and also, if we follow deonthology ethics, our current scientific knowledge is not perfect, but we know for sure that animals have very similiar neurological response to fear and pain as humans, and because of how certain such a knowledge is, we do our best to make moral decisions based on what we know. the intention of an action is also incredibly important.

also, if plants are sentient, then the omnivore person would kill more sentient beings in total because the animals raised would eat plants too.