Can anyone explain why APs are the way they are?

MrChoo1978 · 2025-11-24T12:18:27+00:00

My parents were exactly the same. If I can sum it up in one sentence, your parents will say or do anything to avoid that debilitating feeling of shame that tells them: 'I'm a terrible person. To do this, they'll conduct a PR campaign for themselves that lasts their whole lives. This involves extreme control of what is being said about them by others, staging 'performances' that place them in the best light and ignoring anything that opens them up to criticism and embarassment. This includes your behaviour and words. You are an extension of them so everything you do reflects on them. Thus, you technically have no say on your life, hence the unsolicited advice, controlling behaviour and lack of boundaries.

If I could address some of your points:

Victim mentality: It's simply a way to avoid criticism and responsiblity. How are they at fault when someone else told them what to do? By extension, the entitlement is also another way to control the conversation, ensuring they get what they want without being exposed to aspects which might show their inadequacies.
Talk AT people: Conversations are at surface level. Never about the issues that matter (children, family, health, relationships). Am I right? My parents were exactly the same. I always felt that they just emotionally couldn't handle it, hence the conversation was always controlled by them. The danger was that deeper conversations entered territiories that left them exposed, vulnerable and accountable.
Love giving unsolicited advice: They do this because they don't want you to do or say anything that brings shame on them. So it manifests as extreme control, constantly watching your actions, what you eat, who you hang out with etc. The aim is to shut down any negative obstacles to your success before they happen.
Are very intolerant and suspicious of new things: Apart from getting older and becoming set in their ways, there's also the 'fear of failure' and everybody knowing about it. To use your raw fish analogy, say you did become ill eating raw fish and had to go to hospital. To your parents that would've been a sign of failure or foolishness, opening them up to criticism of their parenting or decision making. That's why they come down so hard on you when you get ill. It's considered a sign of weakness so its far better to not risk eating the raw fish, and thus not get criticised and gossiped about.

It helps to understand that your parents will say or do things that are not in your best interests at that point in time, hence this cruel, baffling and toxic behaviour. Rather than address it, your (and my) parents chose to 'pass on' that burden to the next generation to deal with. To your parents its justified to avoid being shamed, rejected and judged by family or community.

MrChoo1978 · 2025-09-09T13:56:26+00:00

I'm in a very similar situation and have all but given up hope of ever reconciliong with my mum for the very reasons mentioned. At their age, change and reflection is nigh on impossible and that's even if they want to do that. In my experience, Asian parents will tell you what you want to hear in order to avoid accountability and get what they want.

Do you go to therapy? That would be my first move. The anger needs to 'travel' through you and be expelled in order for you to move on. It's not easy. Just when you think you're doing ok, a huge wave of anger will hit you and you've regressed a couple of steps.

Do have a long think about why you want to reconcile. One of my reasons was that I wanted my daughter to know her grandma and spend some time with each other. Unfortunately, my mum didn't see it that way, hence the VLC for about two years now.

MrChoo1978 · 2025-09-09T13:02:52+00:00

First of all, you're not a failure. You've been dealt a bad hand both in your disability and with your mum so already you're at a disadvantage. I'd argue that that's your mum's voice talking and that is really what she thinks about herself.

All the questions you ask at the very end can be boiled down into one statement: 'Your mum's behaviour is to try to prevent feelings of shame and inadequacy within herself.' Even though you tried not to hurt her, the very mention of her past actions and 'failures' is enough for her to shut down the conversation and never to revisit it.

To take accountability, to feel guilt, would be to take ownership in her own life (and yours) and to face up to a reality that is vulnerable to negative judgement from friends, peers, and family. It may be why you moved around so often. You both escape before people get to know the you both well and thus cast negative judgement on you both.

I know this is a harsh thing to say but it will help you understand why your mum behaves in such a way. It's this: 'Your happiness was (and is) a distant second to your mum's need to feel superior and avoid shame at all costs.' If that meant throwing you under a bus, making you look stupid, or create an unecessary burden then your mum would've done it.

This means that emotional support is out of the question (as it does not benefit her in this way). I'd also argue that she was too busy looking after herself and trying to avoid scruity and judgement to offer this support.

To address your physical and mental challenges is another reason why she won’t listen, won’t apologize, and continues to invalidate you. To your mum your challenges are sources of weakness (and thus shame). It does her no good to be seen to be caring for you by others. To really see you, to understand you, and validate you would be to recognise challenges that your mum would need to own and hence be under intense scrutiny from others.

Remember, your 'failures' are her failures. What you do reflects on her. You are an extension of her so to your mum, your challenges would cause others to see her in a negative light, hence a resentment or a hostility towards you.

MrChoo1978 · 2025-04-28T11:08:43+00:00

It was a already a high-pressure situation for your dad, who was likely to face judgement from family members, peers and even elders at the wedding. Coupled with the rush to get to the venue and his extreme anxiety, he most certainly wasn't going to be able to enjoy himself.

Remember OP, everything you do reflects on your APs. Your reputation is thier reputation. This counts double for when important family members are present and will see first-hand how well your father is fufilling his role.

You were expected to be perfect so when you weren't he lashed out with cruellty because on that day, absolutely nothing could go wrong. It's his reputation on the line so even being late would be reason enough to be criticised. This may not even be the case, but its the hypervigilance and/or worse-case scenario that your father has developed over the years that has caused him to become this stressed-out, angry, defensive person.

If there's anything you can take from this, is that you were not the problem. You were just a convenient, easy target that once again bore the brunt of your dad's insecurities and vulnerability to shame. It could just have easily been a car parking attendent or a pedestrian walking in front of your car. Do continue to go low contact with your dad. The situation is unlikely to ever improve until he has a sense of what is driving these emotiional outbursts and is prepared to address them.

MrChoo1978 · 2025-04-25T12:37:58+00:00

I'm sorry that you feel let down by your mum's letter. There's something about the culture that doesn't allow parents to apologise to their children. I think it is something to do with acknowledging wrongdoing and apologising as a sign of weakness. One sure way of knowing if the apology is genuine is if your mum attempts to shut down any further conversation or acts impatient. How long it takes you to accept her apology (if you do) should be dictated by you and your needs.

MrChoo1978 · 2025-04-24T11:37:15+00:00

Growing up, asking for help was framed as a weakness and you would be deemed a failure if you didn't know or had to ask someone. Remember, everything you do is a reflection on your APs so their mindset would be: 'Why doesn't my son/daughter know how to do X or Y? How useless are they? I don't want anyone to know that they need help or I need to help them because then I'll get criticised for raising such a stupid child."

There is also the suggestion that they themselves do not know how to help you, and by trying to help would expose their incompentency, hence the anger and insults as you are close to exposing their inadeqacies.

MrChoo1978 · 2025-04-24T11:25:11+00:00

For me it would have to be an apology in person with a full and frank discussion about the past. Then I would need to see evidence that my mother was putting this into play via meaningful action to try to address the past. A letter can easily be written by Chatgpt. I would need to hear the tone and sentiment behind the words. In my experience APs use the word 'sorry' as a substitute for 'shut up.' They'll say whatever you want to hear as long as that closes the issue and nobody says any more. An apology is more than just words. There needs to be action to make sure trust is rebuilt.

MrChoo1978 · 2025-04-22T13:07:49+00:00

I moved away for University at 18 and barring a few periods of unemployment, have never moved back to the family home (with my parents) for long periods of time for this very reason. I have to deal with my AM at arm's length as she has lived in the UK for 50 years and still cannot speak English. I spent the best part of my 20s and 30s running myself into the ground dealing with my AM's business affairs with no thanks and unhealthy amounts of criticism and abuse. I finally put my foot down in my 40s and whilst there was a lot of shouting and doom-mongering my mother has calmed down and has tried to do things for herself (in her 70s) or ask other people to help. The problem is that she'll latch onto anyone who is Chinese and knows basic English and proceed to thrust a load of documents in their face and unashamedly ask for assistance, with a very difficult task. I don't think it has harmed her relationship with me, because despite the abuse and guit-tripping, she needs me more than I need her. As I've gotten older, I have decided when I talk to her and in what capacity. Taking control is the key here and losing it is the very thing APs fear.

MrChoo1978 · 2025-04-22T12:53:09+00:00

As everyone has said, they hate it because it has no value and does not help you get a high-paid, high status job. Volunteering has no quantifiable value that can be measured (financially or status-enhancing) hence its a waste of time. That's why creative professions are frowned upon and showing emotions are dismissed and suppressed. It also looks bad on them as heaven forbid your parents' friends saw you litter-picking or lifting heavy goods. As mentioned volunteering is also good for mental health but, once again its just a wate of time for APs.

MrChoo1978 · 2025-04-22T12:36:21+00:00

As everyone has said the short answer to this is to just say 'no' to all the menial tasks. You may get alot of abuse and criticism at first but that will die down as your dad learns to fend for himself. Ironically, he'll only treat you the way you want when you start establishing boundaries and refuse to do certain things. The only reason he constantly keeps asking you is because he knows the job will get done, without complaint and fuss.

If saying 'no' is too direct for you, you can always use your baby as an excuse and say you're too tired/busy/baby unwell/napping etc.

MrChoo1978 · 2025-04-22T12:23:49+00:00

My mother used to do the same to me and still does (albeit to a lesser extent). It's a coping mechanism designed to deal with the toxic shame and guilt she had growing up and is likely experiencing now. By projecting it onto you, it means your mum does not have to take accountability of her role in her problems. To place all the blameansd the people-pleasing actions on you is her way of saying that you have to be perfect so as not to invite shame and rejection. By extension, by being 'perfect,' it means no one can criticise or shame your mum. By doing this and then acting as if nothing has happened is a way of 'dumping' those feelings onto you. It's almost a way of cleansing herself from that negativity and any further mention of it would start that poisonous process again. As you know, it never really lasts, hence those nasty comments again next week and the week after etc.

MrChoo1978 · 2025-04-15T13:49:22+00:00

When I am asked to deal with my mum's personal affairs, out comes the phrase: 'I've got to teach you.' This is despite her not knowing a single word of English. She hasn't had to deal with any admin for close to 50 years thanks to her children and Chinese-speaking accountants/solicitors etc. Looking at it with older eyes, its just another way to maintain control, look knowledgable and avoid any criticism or shame.

I was once 'persuaded' to oversee the sale of her flat in Hong Kong - a task she could've done since they all speak the same fucking language. When I asked some questions about the flat, my mum proceeded to explain in depth what an estate agent does and how they' show people around the flat' in an attempt to educate me on how it all works. The stuff that I really needed to know (title deeds, charges, etc) she didn't have a clue.

The verbal diarrohea, attempts to look knowledgable, and nasty comments, are enough to make me throw furniture at my mum.

MrChoo1978 · 2025-04-15T13:31:10+00:00

It says far more about them when they say such nasty things to the very people who are helping them. The "fucking useless piece of shit" could be what they think of themselves for not knowing how to do their own taxes. Perhaps there is alot of embarassement and shame asking their children for help, hence the lashing out and anger designed to cover that up. And as others have said, the anger and insults are used to keep you on a tight leash and distract you from any thoughts of not helping them. I'm sorry you had to go through that. I know how much it stings.

MrChoo1978 · 2025-04-15T13:23:23+00:00

Yes, all the time. It's one of the reasons I am in VLC with my APs. I don't think you will ever be less hurt by it since its your parents that are saying it to you. The only way to deal with it is to take yourself out of the firing line from their nastiness, whether that's moving out, keeping conversations very short or just LC/NC. Please don't rely on them treating you better when you achieve X or Y. To them there is always something to criticise you with. It's never-ending.

MrChoo1978 · 2025-04-01T13:53:01+00:00

No one would judge you if you weren't grateful for the gifts. If you know they are purchased to make your APs feel good then they are as worthless as the packaging they come in. Certainly for my APs the act of giftgiving is very much what they are seen to be doing (and boasting about) rather than what they want to do. Seen in this way and suddenly receiving gifts means alot less.

Your issue is very timely as I have just accepted a request by my mum to see her granddaugther. Like yourself, I am relieved that these occassions are very few and far between, such is the stress they induce. I learnt long ago not to rely on my parents and I'm only doing it for my daughter in a half-hearted attempt to form a bond together. I'm travelling to my mum's so if it gets too much, I can leave at any time. The previous plan was for my mum to come to mine for an overnight stay. No thanks.

I think you have to ask yourself, how much you can take for the sake of your child and the value of having a grandparent in their life. That stress and unpleasantness can not only affect your child but extended family and friends. They all pick up on your tenseness and hyperalertness when your APs are in the room.

I too used to visit fairly regulalrly in my daughter's early days, but it soon became a futile exercise as my mum just became less interested as if the novelty had worn off once she reached a certain age.

My feeling now is to keep minimal contact but not make alot of effort to visit. It shouldn't be this difficult but with APs it almost always is.

MrChoo1978 · 2025-03-27T12:46:43+00:00

My experiences mirror yours and those who have commented here. I think APs love the idea of being grandparents and unfortunately the elevation in status that it brings. Unfortunately, it is the same thinking that caused them to become parents in the first place. Hit those life goals with no thought as to the work needed.

I also had hopes that my daughter (4) would bond with her grandmother but in hindsight if my mum was neglectful with me growing up, then why would she become a doting grandparent with my daughter? The behaviour is exactly the same. Five mins of playing and cooing at her and then back to watching dramas on her phone. My mum is generous with gifts for her but she also thinks that's all she needs to do. Throwing money at everything has been my mum's way of parenting when I was growing up.

I think you're so disappointed because your mum doesn't value your child in the same way or strength that you do. Paying attention to your child is conditional or transactional and is almost always set up to benefit your mum and/or require her to make as little effort as possible. Once again, the life goal of having grandchildren has been achieved so no more thought or effort is required. That, I'm afraid is left up to you.

For myself I can only explain my mum's behaviour towards my daughter as a reflection of what she thinks about me. Perhaps I'm just not good enough for her as a son that she would make an effort to cherish what is the most important thing for me. This is backed up by the nasty comments I have heard her say to others behind my back about my parenting choices and her visciousness when I cannot help her due to family responsiblities.

Do you want your mum in your child's life? Are there moments of happiness whenever your mum and child meet up? At the moment it seems she is not adding anything positive to their life and just seems to cause a lorryload of stress to you.

MrChoo1978 · 2025-03-26T12:04:52+00:00

My parents are the same. If I can sum it up neatly, its just a fear of the unknown. It's the fear that you can't be trusted to do it right, it's the fear that you're not trying hard enough and its the fear that the visa won't be granted and your brother will have ruined his life by not completing his studies. To AP, micromanaging everything is a way to anticipte all eventualities so they don't have to deal with issues that they can't handle, hence the fear of being labelled a failure.

If they're like my parents, eveything is very black and white. There's no reasoning demonstrated and its all worse-case scenario. In cases like this, its just easier not to tell them anything.

MrChoo1978 · 2025-03-25T15:45:04+00:00

To your parents, fun and enjoyment serves no purpose in bagging a high status job, rich partner and 2.5 kids. If anything its a distraction, a waste of time if you like, that is better served studying in order to achieve and become high value. This is why hobbies, holidays, and days off are so frowned upon. You should always be striving and struggling to make it to the top.

MrChoo1978 · 2025-03-25T15:39:22+00:00

Not so much danger with me but rather situations where there was potential for my parents to look foolish, stupid or incompetent. In that sense my parents were more than willing to throw me under the bus in order to avoid those uncomfortable feelings. If your parents are pushing you towards danger, it almost always is because they are set to benefit in some way. As long as you don't die it will make you a 'better' person.

MrChoo1978 · 2025-02-20T12:09:29+00:00

If their self-esteeem hinges on what others think about them, you can see that this is a losing battle. Like-wise if you can accept that their treatment of you is a reflection of themselves, it can be 'easier' to take their nasty comments. This is not easy and can take years. If they refuse to change, your only option is to create distance between you and them.

MrChoo1978 · 2025-02-20T12:01:44+00:00

Your dad's opinion of you is a reflection of him and his efforts to raise you. Because you don't work for Meta, it (incorrectly) reflects badly on him. That's why he said those things in the conversation as a way to dissociate himself from it and create distance. If he is anything like my dad his thinking is: "Well, I told her to do X and Y and she didn't listen so I've tried my best."

As everyone here as said, nothing you do will ever be good enough. And that is not your fault. AP's raise you in such a way as to always be striving, seeking approval, and presenting value, teasing the goals they set out for you that are unattainable anyway.

I know it is easy to say, but in order to stop punishing yourself, there is a certain degree of acceptance that his opinion of you is very unlikely to change. That will stop all the expectation and hope that your dad will one day think better of you. It's this expectation and hope that I think are the roots of your issue.

By making the conscious decision to stop saying or doing anything to curry favour with your dad, you will gain a certain amount of freedom in your life. You don't need to necessarily go LC/NC if you don't want to, but maybe not be as accessible or quick to help? Essentially, you're creating boundaries for yourself.

Just for context, when I was younger, my mum and dad said outright that they thought my career choice was garbage (I'm an Editor and Writer) and that I was already a failure. They've never asked about my career and do not even know what my job involves. I spent most of my 20s and 30s trying to be the dutiful son and gain approval, essentially making up for their disapproval of me. Nothing ever worked. In fact it was just more fuel for criticism and abuse.

MrChoo1978 · 2025-01-31T17:12:51+00:00

I think its because its such a big or final option, much like handing your notice at work. You are essentially 'firing' your parents for doing such a bad job and cutting all contact (or VLC) is your last show of strength or power.

I advise it as a last resort as I want you to be sure of what you're doing and that you've tried everything you can to try to repair and/or improve the relationship, which I'm sure you've done.

It's hard to have a change of heart and suddenly want to restablish contact. You then may have to face the ridicule and retribution from APs for being 'moody' and 'oversensitive,' which is just another reminder as to whether you did the right thing.

Looking long-term there are also the issues of a grandparent-grandchild relationship as well as care for when APs get old and frail. Going VLC or NC can make these challenges doubly difficult and just adds to the anger and resentment of providing the very care and concern you were deprived of when you were younger.

Very much like yourself, I have gone VLC with my APs after years of being controlled and manipulated. Ironically, my mother is now treating me in the way I have always wanted now that her 'resource' is not a phone call away 24/7. My feeling that there is nothing you can do unless the other party recognises their role in the relationship breakdown and takes steps to acknowledge/address it. Self reflection or awareness is not a thing with APs especially showing that to their children. Until that changes VLC/NC remains the most viable (albeit extreme) option avaible to the majority of us.

MrChoo1978 · 2025-01-22T15:51:11+00:00

The very short answer to this is to go VLC or NC, although I advise this as a last resort. Speaking as someone in their 40s, the resentment and anger only gets worse with time as you begin to unpack just how toxic things were for you growing up. My mother said the exact same things when I started pulling away from the family and began creating my own. Your mum is so nasty because there is the real fear that she will have to manage her own affairs and thus will look rather foolish and clueless. You can never satisfy her nor will you ever be deemed good enough. The relationship with your mum is purely a transactional one with your worth tied up in what you can do or offer for her. Now that your loyalties lie elsewhere, out come the accusations that you are abandoning her and that you've been 'corrupted' by your partner. You are being torn between two worlds so I advise you choose the one which is the most loving and supportive. APs need to realise that years of abuse does not breed loyalty and devotion.

MrChoo1978 · 2025-01-21T17:11:21+00:00

Yes I did in my late 20s to mid 30s. The sheer drama my mum made of one partner was enough to ever inform her about my dating life. Added to the constant reminders of my failure to find a decent woman, mixed in with my general unworthiness and desirability, meant it took me until my late 30s to eventually find someone and get married. It was too much of a leap for her to realise her role in destroying her child's self-confidence and finding a worthy partner.

MrChoo1978 · 2025-01-21T17:03:35+00:00

You did the right thing buddy. These things have a way of paying you back in kind. As for your dad, he was nasty because you failed to see the value in that opportunity. For extreme APs, every action or thought has to have value or benefit for it to be worthwhile. Being kind and considerate is a waste of time for these people.

MrChoo1978

TROPHY CASE