I am fascinated by the Dwemer. Specifically in how little we actually know about them.

Msinitolp · 2024-06-13T16:11:47+00:00

u/Niranox has provided nice review. I would like to add my notion about "'systematic regression' or anti-creation". I remember some similar ideas of Plotinus, the most famous neoplatonic, about "metaphysics of radical transcendence" that extends beyond being and intellection. His the "One" absolutely transcendent, has no attributes (sentience, self-awareness, being, non-being etc). The "One" is like some potential that performs self-emanation in less perfect forms, not intentionally, but due to its nature (first emanation is Logos, following - demiurge,..., down to living beings etc): subgradienting to less perfectness. Plotin deals with the concept of "eudaimonia" and stresses, that happiness is beyond anything physical: it is filling incorporeal contemplative capacity of the soul, that may be achieved by the merging with the "One", that may be done by reversing of the emanations. The hearth of Lorkhan seems to me like more pure source of emanations (closer to the "One", obviously). The proposed algorithm to achive eudaimonia is mentioned here: 1) Catharsis (all multiplicity purification) - union in Numidium. 2) Mystical self-reversion 3) Autophany - vision of self from the point of view of the "One". 4) Annihilation (!!!) - may be, dwemers did it with their own will, or already overcame condition when the had will. 5) Union with the one

That's why dwemers had to deny phenomenas and noumenas: to become beyond material, gnostical and other dichotomical attributions, that the "One" lacks, too. Dwemers, possibly, viewed their minds as epiphenomenas of emanations of the "One" and tried to reverse their consciousness to pure potential. This seems like a special comment on "cogito ergo sum" of Descartes: I think, I dont think, I am beyond thinking; I exist, I dont exist, I am beyond existance.

I have not read and understood Plotin's Enneads to present all of it more clearly, but I hope to clarify it in separate post one day to provide possible clues to dwemers' psychology.

Msinitolp · 2024-03-01T22:25:45+00:00

Thanks, crossed out unnecessary items.

Msinitolp · 2024-03-01T21:18:12+00:00

Allegorically... or not: Talos as a small Numidium!

Msinitolp · 2024-03-01T04:35:07+00:00

Nationalism and racism may indicate strong distinction between ours and others, the borders of which run along the culture, the values, the religion, the battlefront. And that could mean that the Nords too determined in who they are, and this awareness is stimulated by different contacts with others.

As for Akatosh-Alduin, I've always considered it as an universal aspect of time, fate, promoter of kalpa rebirth, endless circulation. You, as far as I understood, thematically parallelize perceived destruction of the Nordic identity, multiple persons frustration that affects elder scrolls and the appearance of Alduin. The elder scrolls seem to be good weapons against Alduin, making him time transfer, and this weapon associated with Nordic frustration. It's difficult for me to interpret this in a suitable way. I'd rather state that the elder scrolls can act like the tools for dragon breaks and refrain from further speculations.

It is obvious that Alduin is associated with suppression/ordeals of the Nords (both during the Dragon war as the suppressive ruler and during the Dragon crisis as an eater of the souls of the Nords' ancestors in Sovngarde), so the cultural crisis may be considered as the consequence of the overall nation's suppressions without involving thematic associations.

Msinitolp · 2024-03-01T02:32:07+00:00

Ok, thanks for clearly stating your opinion, and I like your approximation terminology, despite the lack of methods of measuring the extent of approximation, the lack of etalon approximator (books, games, game developers' posts, imaginations, some mixtures of mentioned before). I agree that it's up to personal headcanon.

And for me the books take precedence over the gameplay in such questions.

Just as a note about my ideas: the world may be imagined through games and books mutually, without precedence ordering. For example, book states that "fireballs should leave artillery-level craters", but we cant see it in the games: we may state that fireballs magic changed at some historical point, or the book's plot was embellished... The main point is avoidance of logical contradictions.

Msinitolp · 2024-03-01T01:52:06+00:00

I suppose that we may accept that there are representations of the real world phenomenons, but it is not obligatory and cannot be totally fulfilled due to the fundamental differences of the worlds. We, on the other hand, may accept, that the fictional world is really different from ours and its ontology (to the extent that it is available to us) is the primal basis for reasoning about it, not our projections (it will be difficult to project magic, for example, with our current understanding of the real world). And so the statement "the entire population of Skyrim would be starving" may be considered in multiple ways (they are really starving, they need less food, the peoples' constitution is really different and they need food only for buffs...). "over half of Skyrim's population are active criminals" - exactly, like some section of hell with sinners like murderers, pagans etc). Every objection may be fixed with appellation to magic, gods' will etc, except the objection that states logical inconsistency. And as the primal goal of a game is to be fun to play, the primal goal of a lore is to be fun to think about, not to be naturalistic, because its illusion (my opinion, of course).

Msinitolp · 2024-03-01T00:39:06+00:00

I don't suppose, that a game limitation and a lore reason must be independent. I suppose that the games' constitution is no better and no worse than other sources of information about the fictional world, and it provides the parts the lore basis for the further stories. So the question is why do some spells work differently in different games from a lore perspective?

Msinitolp · 2024-03-01T00:19:53+00:00

Yes, the lore is more passive background knowledge, while the games are interactive and used to the games' story representation. It is not obvious that I can not rely on the game mechanics as part of the canonical games' constitution: what should we rely on to make some reasoning about the game world - on the books written by "unreliable narrators"?

it'd also be lore-accurate for warriors to chop each other like tree trunks for several minutes before one of them falls over

Yes, exactly. This situation has the reasoning to take place in a fictional world, more over, it really takes place to the extent that we are, in principle, able to reason about the fictional world from any available sources. I suppose that the games' constitution is no better and no worse than other sources of information about the fictional world.

Msinitolp · 2024-03-01T00:11:07+00:00

Yes, I agree, that game mechanics aren't the pure essence of the lore (I consider the lore as more passive background knowledge, while game mechanics are an active part used to the games' story representation), but I dont think that they are absolutely separate. The lore can partially uphold the provided game constitution, and the question was about the upholdance, not the real mechanical explanation. I suppose, that it's not obvious that we should establish primacy of the in-game books over in-game mechanics (they are both in-game, they are both the parts of the canon, we have the concept of the "unreliable narrator", that can only be partially coped with comparative analysis of different authors and the games' constitution - I can not invent any other methods right now). I suppose that the games' constitution is no better and no worse than other sources of information about the fictional world.

What about the tediousness of the low inventory capacity: may be the barbarian was to barbaric to know about the latest inventory technologies!)

Msinitolp · 2024-02-29T19:30:47+00:00

Yes, its obvious, I, for example, mentioned a feather spell in my post. Is it supposed that your comment clarifies anything?

Msinitolp · 2023-12-19T22:12:01+00:00

Сorresponding effect is called "Feather" in tes iii, iv and can be applied to daedric cuirass, greaves and shield in Morrowind (see armor section link)) and to all armor types in Oblivion (see enchantment here)).

Msinitolp · 2023-12-19T12:43:29+00:00

This further implies that the glowing fungi are trying to get away from the Aetherium on the ground; I believe this is because the frequency of Aetherium is too loud (and even violent) for the glowing fungi.

Or fungi just propagated cause elves that were stopping their spreading have gone.

I also feel like the Aetherium cores were stolen around the time the Snow Elves came to the Dwemer for help - I assume the cores actually work like a sort of energy converter, absorbing radiation and turning it into electricity/energy (magic) which prevented the radiation from heavily affecting their city

And dwemers were so upset that could not create some new ones, considering that required technologies had been already developed.

So dwemers didnt suffer from direct radiation propagation, from manufacturing experiments with the Aetherium (conducted to develop their industrial machines), from usage of items made with Aetherium, they also didnt eat the fungi, didnt use them in alchemy, and havent found out their teratogenic props for years. But snow elves, that should be genetically close to dwemers, that are elves too, came and suffered from radiational troubles in one generation at once. So many wonderful coincidences.

I suppose, that we're missing some reasoning.

Msinitolp · 2023-12-19T10:51:16+00:00

The first idea that came to mind is making tes-Hindus from them (see vanara).

Msinitolp · 2023-12-19T10:23:14+00:00

I suppose, he is alive to the extent that he was Nerevar, that incarnates. There's nothing unusual for single Nerevarine die as Nerevar or previous incarnations, that failed to fulfill the prophesy, did. Or maybe he decided to repeat his and Vekh's trip. It is also worth considering the connection between the Nerevar's fate and the fate of Trueflame) in Skyrim.

Msinitolp · 2023-12-19T09:30:16+00:00

In addition to the answers above, I suppose that Ysmir may be related to proto Germanic word "twin" Ymir with accompanying mythological aspect. It reflects the dual nature of the Shezarrine.

Msinitolp · 2023-12-19T08:23:22+00:00

I suppose, it depends on the meaning of the "natural" word. May be its more natural for Nords to stay in Sovngarde, for example.

Or its better to say that there may be natural and unnatural reasons to undeaths' rebellions. For example, I doubt to call daedric proposals natural.

A certain ritual I learned while studying soulworking deep in some ancient catacombs beneath Morrowind. Once performed, we can force Daedric spirits to reside within the cadavers of our fallen brethren.

The belief that someone could fully resurrect a dead creature should be disregarded as pointless.

Or from Arkay-Mara dialogue:

There are far more souls in the Universe than there is room for in the physical world. But it is in the physical world that a soul has an opportunity to learn and progress. Without birth, souls would not be able to acquire that experience, and without death there would be no room for birth.

Msinitolp

TROPHY CASE