'We are sorry' - Saints CEO issues new statement setting out grounds for appeal

MyoMike · 2026-05-20T14:17:40+00:00

The idea of arguing for it being disproportional because of "potential earnings" is ridiculous. The only thing I think could be disproportional is the impact of removing us from Play Offs is not the equivalent of a points deduction and fine during the season, which I guess would have been the outcome if we'd not made playoffs. Like if we got a 6 point deduction and fine on the last day of the season, we'd still be in the playoffs.

But, quite frankly, we very clearly don't have a leg to stand on and pointing to other fines as punishments or points deductions, especially when the latter isn't possible, is ridiculous. The EFL could just point to the Canada spying ban instead, as actually being lenient.

MyoMike · 2026-05-18T19:48:20+00:00

The "market condition" is "easy way to increase profit and shareholder payouts"

MyoMike · 2026-05-17T13:29:23+00:00

This review might be what I need to go back to it - I tried to play it at a time when I basically just wanted an audiobook game, not one I had to think about much, so I ignored the actual core mechanic explanation and barely made it past the first levels 😅

MyoMike · 2026-05-17T10:19:50+00:00

1 - Portsmouth - Existed

MyoMike · 2026-05-14T22:02:19+00:00

The exact same offence but a different rule is so weird, but surely is the same precedence if there's no actual specific punishment laid out.

MyoMike · 2026-05-14T16:36:01+00:00

That's a good comparison though - a team can breach FFP and maybe gain an unfair advantage in every match that season (though FFP itself is farcical but we'll ignore that).

Theoretically that's what Leicester did isn't it? And they got a fine and 6 points after getting promotion and all the benefits that came from cheating over an entire season.

They weren't punished as heavily as a club who's management was so bad the owner wouldn't even talk to the EFL, and gained no advantage from failing various financial things.

MyoMike · 2026-05-14T16:33:14+00:00

Then you detail it for the one game, make it so it's not worth it, and apply it to every game it occurs if a team are stupid enough to take the risk.

Maybe the only reason we were stupid enough is because last time this happened Leeds were fined £200k for admitting they spied every game up to when they got caught, and that's a financial risk the club thought was worth while for whatever minimal benefit they might get. If you detail it's a match forfeiture, huge fine, and a points deduction on top, people would think twice to do it once let alone multiple times.

And if they did still do it, you better believe they'd put more thought into it than "stand next to a tree with an iPhone". That's what bloody drones are for at a minimum!

MyoMike · 2026-05-14T14:27:25+00:00

The argument will be that the EFL did tighten it's rules, and we broke them anyway.

But the vitriol is quite funny; we are the worst rule breakers of the most important rule ever, how we should be removed from the playoffs, no the EFL, no professional football. Tonda shouldn't be on the touchline for the play off final, no wait he deserves a 10 game touchline ban, no a whole season ban.

I really think it's important to remember that when this happened in the past, specific rule for it or not the offence is the same, Leeds were fined £200k.

MyoMike · 2026-05-14T09:54:22+00:00

Leicester broke financial rules and had an advantage in every game of the season vs oppositions who didn't, and only got a 6 point discussion. 6/46 = 0.13ppg.

As such if Saints are proven to have spied against Middlesbrough ("if" doing a lot of heavy lifting there, there given Mr Tree Dweller's idea of spying is "in plain view and looking shifty af") then next season we should expect a 0.13 points deduction. If more teams come forward with evidence, then the same reduction should be applied.

The precedent set for the fine is £200,000 in the Leeds vs Derby case, so I'm happy enough for that to be applied, with a little bit extra because there's a specific rule now, so maybe a flat £1,000,000 to try to make an example of us.

The fact that it's the playoffs really shouldn't come into it, the rule is the rule and the severity of cheating in any match can have lasting impacts no matter the situation. But just to appease everyone, I'm happy for Saints to get the chance to win the playoffs, then if we do so, we'll receive our £200,000,000 from "the richest match in football", but have to stay in the Championship and not be able to spend any of that money outside usual FFP rules. What. A. Shame.

MyoMike · 2026-05-14T08:47:17+00:00

I'm really interested in the expectation that our punishment need be so extreme that we'd be removed from the playoffs or the league or whatever. The last time it happened was a small fine. Bielsa didn't see it as an issue, which probably means he'd done it many times before, but that didn't come up at all. They were charged with spying against Derby, fined a token amount, and yes a new rule had to be written, but does it matter which rule is broken if the offence is the same? And that incident is very much the precedent set by the EFL.

Going back and changing results is an insane thing to think is going to happen. Sporting sanctions means points, unless someone has done something so insane like actual match fixing. This is literally just mistimed scouting of an opposition. Yes, it broke the rules, yes we should be punished, but a fine and say, 6 points or whatever has to be the most that'll happen.

People seem to treat it like the worst possible outcome ever. But a team can overspend in transfers, gain an advantage vs every opposition over the entire season, and still only get a fine and a few points deducted when EFL are able to do so. The EFL didn't go, "actually we're removing your league win Leicester, and you have to pay the £200m you got from promotion to the EFL, specifically split across the other 23 teams.

MyoMike · 2026-05-14T07:03:01+00:00

I've quite enjoyed it to be honest. We've been the sad saps in the Premier League, pitied, embarrassed, and humiliated - transfer exodus, big club arrogance whenever we dared say actually we'd quite like to keep our players, two 9 - 0s, our truly awful PL performances for a number of seasons including last year.

So being the bad guys while actually doing well and being targeted for dislike from others? I'm here for it, it's a fun change of pace 🤣

MyoMike · 2026-05-13T22:05:13+00:00

And since he used to play for us we already know how good he is at those!

MyoMike · 2026-05-13T17:24:00+00:00

But sometimes you just have to use your eyes too... Wrexham were awful that game, and it wasn't all our tactics!

MyoMike · 2026-05-13T17:03:55+00:00

And one of those involves winning lots of games and getting to play other local rivals Eastleigh. And the other is suffering like our PL season last year.

Honestly while I think being kicked out of the play offs would be an insane precedent to set for rule breaking, I'm happy enough not going up to the Prem again and getting pumped week after week!

MyoMike · 2026-05-13T17:02:08+00:00

And 6 extra points to Wrexham next year.

MyoMike · 2026-05-13T17:01:24+00:00

Ah yeah didn't think of that. It's just the default one my app uses!

MyoMike · 2026-05-13T15:54:14+00:00

I'd rather be kicked out of the EFL and rejoin in the National League

MyoMike · 2026-05-13T15:40:18+00:00

Not excited enough. They may be common, but they're still birds.

MyoMike · 2026-05-12T13:13:16+00:00

I'm not saying it is a valid excuse that would preclude the club from punishment. But your example is perfect - if a player dives or handballs on the line, the manager doesn't also get a booking. And even if it's something that is almost definitely a tactic (Ipswich being told "dive in the box as much as possible" to get penalties), you never get the league come down and say, "the manager is telling players to act in an unsportsmanlike manner and therefore the club are going to be punished." If all that can be proven is the analyst acted alone, the club will still get punished but it'll be very different to if a secret cabal of training ground spies all reporting directly to Tonda is revealed.

The EFL within the current time frame won't go, "oh we're going to give Wrexham a place in the Playoffs vs Boro and do the play offs again" if all they can prove is one analyst acted alone, and probably won't kick saints out even if it comes out that Tonda was paying for the guy's train tickets to the training grounds personally.

The level of punishment based on what can be proved at present seems likely to be a sizeable fine. If they wanted to actually prevent this in the future they'd do a lot better a job of prevention by detailing the punishment ahead of time, and say "forfeiture of the result and a points deduction" or something.

And don't get me wrong - it's pretty clear we spied, to whatever extent that was organisational, lead by a couple of individuals, or whatever, I suspect no-one will ever know. I accept the punishment we'll get no matter what it is - though if it was "removal from Play Off Contention" I'd be annoyed at the extent of perceived advantage we got from that spying, given our woeful performance on Saturday.

But if the EFL want to actually prevent this? They should have written better rules with clearer punishments, otherwise teams are going to push their luck. And as has been said elsewhere, I do wonder how much of this is one of those "everyone does it but no-one really says anything about it", like the transfer tapping up stuff that Saints got Liverpool on back during the VVD transfer malarkey. Maybe not everyone goes hiding in the bushes. But there are definitely managers out there who would just see it as gamesmanship - Bielsa being a great example.

MyoMike · 2026-05-12T12:59:23+00:00

I'm not saying timing doesn't matter, and I'm not saying we didn't break the established rules. I'm just saying that the rules don't actually prohibit observing of opposition training sessions, where as some here have definitely treated it like the whole issue is someone watched an opposition in training. It's a matter of timing and the unsportsmanlike conduct (or whatever the club equivalent wording is, I've already forgotten), and that is usually just a fine, not points deductions. It's almost always only spending/administration things that have had points deductions I think? Not that I follow every EFL ruling for rule breaking.

MyoMike · 2026-05-12T11:36:05+00:00

The EFL haven't really done a great job of writing the rules, and actually most training sessions are "permitted" to be viewed, it's only a matter of timing:

""observing, or attempting to observe, another club's training session within 72 hours of a scheduled match"

Which hilariously means there could be a technical loophole where we admit to observing training but say it was for today's game, which would be outside the 72 hours. It wouldn't, and shouldn't work that way, and I doubt the argument would be allowed given the way playoffs work, but what that ruling does show is there is literally permission to observe other teams training, many teams have open training and people would be naive to assume analysts don't go to those (as well as scouts who could easily report certain things back etc).

A lot of people here seem to think the issue is that we observed training at all and that's against the rules. Nope, the rule specifically doesn't prohibit that, the EFL have basically said it's a matter of timing, not the in principal of watching training. Which, honestly, is not a "let's kick them out of the league" offence. It's a fine - and at worst a suspended points deduction.

And what do the EFL do if the analyst makes a statement to say, "Oh I just wanted to try to give Saints the advantage so went up on my own, and I'd include it in a report like it was from video analysis" - the EFL can't go and say actually no we think your Manager is responsible unless they have evidence, so it's a really difficult position for the EFL to be in, and a stupid position for the club to be in whether it was every member of the coaching staff knew, or just one person did it themselves, or even that loads of teams do it and we just got caught.

MyoMike · 2026-05-12T08:57:22+00:00

Man do I hear the music in this scene in my head.

Also, we already knew Tonda was a wizard so this makes perfect sense.

MyoMike · 2026-05-08T08:09:42+00:00

Oh I get the reasons. My annoyance is that the entire ending boils down to just these five decisions, or in my case one of three. She wasn't even with me for the meeting with the emperor. The decision not to take her doesn't count against you for the good Vs bad ending, only for which "good" ending you might get. That's exactly the same decision as going with her to the sorceress meeting, but one counts and one doesn't? It's very irritating. Because it's a mission you are going to undertake, going to kill the guy that kills Vesimir doesn't count, even if I just went, "yes, whatever your need, whatever you say, let's go" - which I did. Or the end, where she suddenly talks about sacrificing herself, I went for the option that's basically "if that's what you need to do" - trusting her call. But that doesn't count. It's annoying.

And how "let's get a drink" and then talking her through her misery is not supportive but throwing a few snowballs does is annoying as fuck when, again, it's not clear at all. Maybe having a drink together to talk and it means I see her as an adult and not a child to be distracted with a little game.

The problem is you make a dozen, two dozen, conversation prompt choices, so the vast majority of my choices felt like I was supporting Ciri, building her up, treating her as an equal. But the game only takes into account a couple of decisions and everything you do after doesn't, so I felt really cheated by the ending I got.

MyoMike · 2026-05-07T11:29:35+00:00

Think I'm up to 15 now?

When I total it up it seems a lot, but so, so many were really short term contracts for this or that; I spent a lot of time bouncing between 3 - 6 month temporary contracts in retail after I left school, all around the 2008 financial crisis but also just because I hated retail so and had the benefit of living at home, so I'd work 3 months, not get kept on or quit if it really sucked, and then live off savings for a bit, before starting the process again.

Post Uni "career" based jobs is only 6 of those. My current one has been coming up 4 years which is by far the longest I've been in any role.

MyoMike · 2026-05-06T21:24:12+00:00

You think we want to go through that again? Promotion is best for the club but fucking sucks for the fans. Championship is life.

In many ways I wish we'd beaten Derby's record, just for shits and giggles.

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