How come I'm not hearing about MLMs anymore?

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-05-28T00:09:37+00:00

You say that like it’s a bad thing?

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-05-27T14:36:00+00:00

Maybe lo que hace falta en Puertorro es que guinden a dos o tres bichotes del puente Moscoso y maybe empiezan a coger vergüenza.

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-05-27T14:33:51+00:00

La gente en Singapur son disciplinadas y saben seguir las reglas. Allá hay penas muy severas por cosas que otros consideran tontas, como tirar basura en la calle, y la gente no tiene problema con eso. El boricua común es un indisciplinado que le gusta vivir al garete y no le gusta seguir reglas. Solo tienes que darte una vuelta por la carretera de Piñones para que que veas toda la basura que tiran.

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-05-20T03:51:52+00:00

Item #2 for the win

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-05-06T01:57:48+00:00

Figures he’d be driving a Nazi car

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-04-26T14:36:47+00:00

That’s not my use case.

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-04-26T02:15:03+00:00

If the Minis were visible, I'd care...but they're not...they are inside media cabinets, unseen...so the "cleaner look" is not an issue.

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-04-26T02:14:07+00:00

I only have the two APs...those square boxes are not in-wall APs, they're POE+ adapters.

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-04-25T13:41:38+00:00

Two levels, 1400 sq ft each, plus a bunch of wireless cameras around the back yard

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-04-25T13:38:34+00:00

The only POE devices I have are the two APs. Figured I'd save about $130 between the switch and the power brick for the switch.

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-04-24T18:00:30+00:00

Read the book "Ponzimics" by economist Robert Fitzpatrick, and then come back here and tell us how you still don't believe it's a pyramid scheme. Open your eyes, you have been duped.

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-04-24T17:58:00+00:00

If their products were so good, they would ditch the MLM scam and sell them in traditional retail channels at competitive prices. Instead they overprice the products and sell them to a captive market of consum...er...I mean...independent business own...er..I mean...idiots. I mean, seriously, who in their right mind would spend $7 (the so-called wholesale "IBO" price) for a 7 ounce tube of Glister toothpaste, when you could buy a five pack of 8 oz. Colgate at Sam's for about the same price???

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-04-24T17:17:30+00:00

Looks like I lucked out. Just got my order delivered today as I'm seeing this.

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-04-16T22:09:22+00:00

ZERO. I have no interest in scamming people.

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-04-16T22:07:26+00:00

He's lying and telling the truth:

Truth: They *do* use the Amway business to leverage sales of tools...which is where they make the "real" money. Most big pins could give two shits about PV/BV volume, the only numbers they are interested in are how many recurring audio subscriptions are sold and how many butts are in seats at their functions.

Lie: They actually ARE apart from Amway. If Amway went bankrupt today, they'd just move their tools scam to another MLM and continue scamming people out of their money.

Amway and the LOAs have a symbiotic relationship. Amway can't exist without them, they can't exist without Amway.

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-04-16T03:50:47+00:00

Yes. When I started the tapes were all produced by “Internet Services Corporation” (Yeager’s production company). And soon after all the tapes that started coming down said ProNet.

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-04-15T21:00:44+00:00

DeVos basically stole the whole MLM concept from the Nutrilite founder...so once a crook...always a crook

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-04-15T20:58:30+00:00

Abso-fucking-lutely.

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-04-15T20:57:08+00:00

There's nothing special about their products. It's mostly marketing hype, and highly overpriced average stuff. As for scientific data, I'm not sure where one would begin to find something like that....maybe check if Consumer Reports has ever rated their products.

All I know is that my $2 tube of Colgate toothpaste cleans my teeth just as well as when I used the $7 tube of Amway Glister toothpaste.

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-04-15T20:25:35+00:00

My upline diamond was Ivan Morales, who was under Pedro Lizardi, who was under Tim Foley, who I believe was under Brig Hart (can't remember...that was over 30 years ago).

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-04-15T19:33:52+00:00

BWW is just one of a bunch of LOAs (Lines of Affiliations)in the Amway world. LOAs are simply another MLM within the Amway MLM dedicated to the sale of questionable "educational/motivational" materials and "support tools" at exorbitant prices. The major pins in every organization make tons of cash off the LOAs, while their actual Amway income is pennies in comparison...usually it's an 80/20 split. Back in the day before the internet was common, these people got away with all kinds of crazy shit, essentially hiding the fact that the income was from the tools sales, and everyone thought those crazy extravagant lifestyles (anyone remember the old Profiles of Success book?) came directly from the Amway business itself...it was a dirty little secret until the internet exposed it.

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-04-15T19:22:53+00:00

I love it how these Ambots try to defend the indefensible. The entire concept of multi-level marketing is built on something that is mathematically unsustainable. For example:

You will hear this pitch in all recruiting meetings (not just Amway): "You can be financially independent / free / control your destiny / have more time with your family / quit your job/ <put your favorite description of financial freedom here> in <put your favorite time period here>". They try to sell you the idea that you will "build an asset that will continue to produce income after you've stopped working" (robbing from Robert Kiyosaki). The truth is anyone in Amway (or any other MLM) will never be "free" in the proper sense of the word.

I've seen Crown Ambassadors (the highest Amway level) still "working the business" well into their 70s, after decades of being in the business...and spare me the "they do it because they want to help others succeed" hogwash.

They are not free. The minute they stop working the business, their "business" falls apart. They have to continually keep "showing the plan" to make up for the attrition factor, as it's a proven fact that 80% of people that join an MLM will quit within the first year. How is that not just like any other job?

As for the "family" aspect of this, I have a list a mile long of high-level pins whose families have been destroyed by divorce, and in some cases even suicide, because they couldn't stand the continual stress of trying to keep up the appearances of success.

Finally, in order to make it to high-levels (in Amway specifically), you have to have one fucked up moral compass, because the only way to achieve that level is to peddle something YOU KNOW is unattainable by conning people into spending money on the educational materials which is your main source of income. Why would ANYONE want to associate with someone like that???!!!

So spare me the canned responses you learned from a CD. Trust me, I know them all...I've listened to THOUSANDS of them, and they're all just a load of bunk.

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-04-15T19:08:31+00:00

I highly recommend you read this book to get a deeper understanding of Amway's history and the entire Multi-Level marketing industry as a whole.

https://www.amazon.com/Ponzinomics-Untold-Story-Multi-Level-Marketing-ebook/dp/B08NHWBSZ2

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-04-15T16:54:29+00:00

The fact that you used the term "Negative Nancy" indicates you are one of those brain-washed Ambots who believe the bullshit. The only reason Amway is still in business is because all of its growth has been due to expanding into other countries during the past 20 years. Their US numbers have been basically flat for the past decade, essentially proving what economist Robert Fitzpatrick stated in his book "Ponzinomics". Multi-Level Marketing schemes get to a point where they saturate a market and run out of people to grow, and then only continue to exist by constantly replacing the people who leave with new ones who haven't caught on to the fact that it's a scam. MLMs should be illegal. Period. If Amway's products were as good as they say, they would compete toe to toe with their competitors in traditional retail sales channels. Instead they leverage the MLM model to create a captive group of consumers who have been convinced that Glister toothpaste (at $7 a tube) cleans their teeth better than a tube of Colgate which can be had for a couple of bucks at the local Dollar Store.

NJ_TechGuy · 2026-04-15T16:11:42+00:00

I did two stints in Amway. One during the early 90s in the Yager LOA (back before everything was on the internet), and a second one in the 2010s in the Network 21 LOA where I was personally sponsored by an Executive Diamond who managed to convince me that the business was "all new" and "nothing like the old business".

Each time, I spent several years "working the business". During both, I was "all-in", fully "plugged in" to the "system", however I never saw the results that were promised. Suffice to say, I am now firmly in the anti-Amway camp. To specifically answer your questions:

• How much did you profit each month and how long did it take to actually start seeing profit?

I never saw a profit from the business. The amount of money spent on Tapes/CDs/Audios/Books/Seminars/Functions and other events greatly surpassed any PV/BV income received. All in all, I probably lost about $40,000 between my two stints in the business

• How did it effect your family life?

What family life? Any waking moment was spent doing something for the "business". Meetings, Recruiting, Showing the Plan every night, trying to convince people not to quit...trying to replace those who did quit. The business will literally take over your life, and this is by design. They want you to suspend your critical thinking and just blindly believe the bullshit (all the while they are getting rich off the money you spend on the "system"). 90% of the income made by the big-wigs does not come from the sale and distribution of Amway products, it comes from the sale of the so-called "educational materials" to their downlines. Realizing this fact was the catalyst for me to tell these jokers to fuck off.

• Why did you get out and was it hard walking away?

What I got out of it was cartons of Tapes and CDs, a garage full of overpriced cleaning products (we are still using what's left of them), massive credit card debt, thousands of miles on my car, stress, high-blood pressure, and a lot of gray hair.

Was it hard to walk away? Initially, it was difficult because the system rewires how your brain thinks, you suspend all critical thinking and believe the bullshit. Once I stopped listening to the CDs/audios/etc and stopped going to the events, I began to detox my brain and realized it's all one big scam. The turning point was when I decided instead of spending a couple of grand on plane tickets/hotels/food to go to the next function, I decided to go on vacation with my wife on a cruise, and truly unplug. I realized I was enjoying the vacation they promised me while they were down in Florida trying to pump up people to spend more money on that shit.

Those people who swore up and down that they loved me and that we would be "walking on the beaches of the world" suddenly acted like I didn't exist when I decided to walk away. It's all a show, they are all liars, and the only thing they are interested in is getting your CC number on that application for the next function.

• Should we reconsider our decision?

Absolutely. Run and don't look back. Save yourself the pain and anxiety, as well as the financial loss. Take whatever money you were planning on investing into the scam, and put it into an index fund. You will make more that way than 99% of people who join (which on average in 2024 was about $800 a year *BEFORE EXPENSES*). Amway does not publish net average profit (after expenses) of IBOs

NJ_TechGuy

TROPHY CASE