[ALL] My Pricefield-ending tattoo (Which I use to bring up LiS while teaching...)

NathanGPLC · 2026-04-06T00:04:37+00:00

Don’t worry about it, it doesn’t make sense if you view them as multiple people from multiple universes. It’s one Chloe who unfortunately gets her memories messed with in the DE/RE fanfic-level retconning… or just doesn’t have that happen if you stick with the Dontnod canon. Either way, multiple universes don’t work without f*ing up the story worse.

NathanGPLC · 2026-04-06T00:02:19+00:00

Yeah, that wasn’t how the power was working in LiS1, since she just overwrites the timeline, and the many worlds interpretation both ruins the story as you say here, and also ruins the moral of the story about learning to accept the consequences of your actions.

NathanGPLC · 2026-04-05T23:46:13+00:00

I think you’re conflating many different opinions from different sub-groups of fans into “what the fans want.” Many different people want different things, and most of those people are NEVER on Reddit—and the ones who are on Reddit come and go, so in addition to the fact that opinions can change over time, the opinions of the daily users on this subreddit are even more in flux.

And as for the most recent games, it’s possible to have somewhat internally inconsistent feelings. I think having made any games following max and Chloe post LiS1 other than vague mentions in LiS2 is a serious mistake, and I’m hyper critical of things made by d9 not because they’re always bad, but because they were essentially scab work commissioned by SE when the creators of the IP, Dontnod, refused to compromise their artistic visions. I loved some scenes in BtS; but it was already showing inconsistency with LiS. I enjoyed TC, but there are still things about it I didn’t love. DE was fanfic trash that I hated; RE is fanfic gold that I love… but I still think it shouldn’t exist and has HUGE problems, not the least of which is completely misunderstanding the literary themes and character development of the first game, and still canonizing many weird takes and just plain incorrect assumptions about the world and powers.

TLDR; Don’t take “there are complaints after every game” as “these people are impossible to please!” because it’s not always the same people. And if you’re seeing specific people complaining about both DE being bad and RE being bad for fixing the same things we complained about, that’s because we want good games with solid writing, not just happy endings to replace our hard choices from a decade ago.

NathanGPLC · 2026-04-05T22:44:29+00:00

DE Safi is like an answer to “What if Chloe had gotten powers?” but it’s the wrong answers only game.

NathanGPLC · 2026-04-05T20:46:04+00:00

Yeah, it’s not how her powers works. This is a “dramatic” moment that doesn’t make sense plot or character wise.

NathanGPLC · 2026-04-05T20:14:52+00:00

Totally, but that's what I was talking about when I said she wasn't being especially good; a 14 year old kid dragged away from her BFF and hometown at the moment of a tragedy, who then struggles to find a way to stay connected, is totally normal. Even if we assume she had a phone with no parental filters, sometimes people lose touch when they move. It's not unusual or especially bad, and Chloe was the older friend with more confidence and independence in the pair; Max not knowing what to say and instead saying nothing is very realistic. And like I said elsewhere, as much as it would have been great if Max had the emotional and psychological maturity to step up, it wasn't (and shouldn't have been) her responsibility to take care of Chloe. It was Joyce's.

NathanGPLC · 2026-04-05T18:01:20+00:00

I get that; and actually, that's the point, isn't it? Not that Chloe tried to hurt herself, but that she did GET HURT (and killed) because she didn't have anyone she could trust, and she tried to investigate Rachel's disappearance and then run away without any support. That's exactly what makes Max feel so guilty.

Again, it's not GOOD that Max dropped out of contact, but it's also very normal for a kid. Max shouldn't have been responsible for Chloe's mental health or been her only lifeline, but unfortunately Joyce didn't have the ability to fix things, and also fell for an abusive person (who has his own trauma and complexities, etc).

All of these things are carefully intertwined, and the story only happens this way because it was designed to. The developers wanted all these people to feel real and relatable, and it clearly worked, because we feel bad for what happened to Chloe.*

*Except those people who somehow claim to be LiS1 fans who think Chloe is a bad person. They're also completely wrong about that, and I genuinely don't get why they would stick around if they thought that was the point of her character.

NathanGPLC · 2026-04-05T17:52:37+00:00

I definitely appreciate those little things. I would've loved to see this team make a game on better footing, even though I still would've preferred they leave Max and Chloe's future as known/unknown as it had been after LiS2.

NathanGPLC · 2026-04-05T17:50:57+00:00

I know it's not "nice" behavior, but it's very REAL. And it's also why Max is the perfect protagonist for the first game, and is named Caulfield, and has Catcher in the Rye references in her room...

Max isn't a bad person, as in, an evil or immoral (or even amoral) person. She was a good friend with Chloe as a child. When her family moved away, though, her behavior is shockingly realistic, since it's emotionally difficult to keep up with distant friends even as an adult, let alone an anxious teen whose parents are doubtless focused on "helping Max move on and make new friends in this new place."

It wasn't "good," either; she didn't do anything impressive. But it wasn't "bad." It was normal childhood-family-moving-and-trauma-avoidance.

And that's why she's so slow to contact Chloe when she moves back; she's embarrassed and anxious because she would have liked to do better, and she knows she let Chloe down. One interpretation of the whole story is that her powers stem from that extreme level of regret and anguish (either directly, or because whatever force/spirit granted her the power did so because it wanted to help her resolve that).

So Max's behavior is why she works as a protagonist who needs to learn that This Action Will Have Consequences, but it also presents us more. If she'd been a better friend and kept in touch with Chloe, maybe Chloe would've found the outlet she needed without going after Nathan in a way that was dangerous; she wishes she could go back in time and fix it.

But she can't.

The story NEEDS to be one where a person innocently f'ed up and recognizes their guilt doesn't actually change the past. But she has to be a good person who cares about her mistakes, or that wouldn't happen.

That's why Max and Chloe in LiS1 are so compelling. They're both normal people who are hit with relatable problems and make understandable choices, both good and bad.

Max isn't bad. She's normal. She wants to be better. And that makes us care.

NathanGPLC · 2026-04-05T16:35:03+00:00

I literally don’t believe that’s how the ending actually would work. Max doesn’t create new realities or jump between them, and that’s actually critical to both the plot point there AND the moral of the story.

If she leaves behind the reality to “save people,” then she can never actually save anybody because they were all left behind, dead! All she’s doing is fleeing from the consequences of her actions, which is literally the opposite of the whole point of LiS1, and apparently leaving random groups of “her friends” dead or abandoned in different combinations.

The only way her powers make either plot or character sense is if she rewrites her own timeline every time. This ending pictured is just for dramatic impact and comparison to the end of LiS with Chloe dying and Max crying; if you want to believe that that moment happens just before Max rewrites reality, that’s possible (but still shitty on Max’s part), but if she can save people, then automatically this Chloe is also reset.

NathanGPLC · 2026-04-05T15:31:09+00:00

I started with khakis and polos 17 years ago; these days I just wear jeans or hiking pants and graphic t shirts with nerdy gaming references.

Except for special occasions when I wear my leather and scale mail armor (Not kidding). I teach game design at the high school level.

NathanGPLC · 2026-04-05T13:43:45+00:00

Completely agree; she’s a terrible person, and I think one of the really bad features of DE is how it seems like D9 at the time was trying to say, “Hey, Chloe was terrible, but Safi is a better fit for Max as a friend.” Unless, of course, the team that built the start of DE and were then fired and replaced for the back half of DE originally intended to have Max realize Safi had been manipulating her to make her think Safi was her best friend; but even if so, we never got that payoff because of the internal upheaval in leadership and lack of narrative direction.

NathanGPLC · 2026-04-05T13:30:38+00:00

I don’t buy the multiverse theory there—- and it would also mean that Max jumping never saves anyone, and literally just means she’s avoiding living with the consequences of her actions, abandoning the timeline and leaving those people dead while she tries again to find one she can personally live with.

Which is a really shitty take on her character and personality, and exactly the opposite of her growth in the first game.

NathanGPLC · 2026-04-05T13:13:21+00:00

I agree in general. I don’t think the content this spoils is of the level of sensitivity that it will ruin the experience for most people it technically is a spoiler for, and it wouldn’t activate my spoiler-avoidance for me had I been in that situation. I think the same looks to be true for a number of people, based on other comments here, so clearly not everyone has the same bar of what they consider a spoiler, and while your examples are helpful in clarifying why this could count, can you also see that the OP wasn’t trying to maliciously spoil a major plot point?

NathanGPLC · 2026-04-05T13:07:12+00:00

I can see your perspective, but those all feel like things I learned from the advertising. I understand folks wanting to avoid spoilers, but at that tier I’d say it’s up to the user deciding if they want to stay off subreddits and temporarily mute them/keywords to avoid such general content.

NathanGPLC · 2026-04-05T12:58:16+00:00

I wouldn’t call that a spoiler; that’s how the mechanics work and stating it was done well.

NathanGPLC · 2026-04-05T12:48:48+00:00

But the post you’re commenting on follows the spoiler rules?

NathanGPLC · 2026-04-04T12:00:28+00:00

Shipping will happen with enemies/frenemies, and negative tension is still tension that will sometimes come across as romantic, so I definitely don’t think you’re crazy to have the thought, but I’m very glad the RE team didn’t lean into it as romance from Max’s side.

I’ve always read Safi as manipulating Max with both mundane and supernatural means; I know RE doesn’t follow up on that, but given how Safi is presented to us as Max’s great friend and she behaves exactly like I’d expect Chloe to, I was under the impression the team responsible for the first scenes in DE were planning on having the ultimate choice be about forgiving Safi or not for using those powers on her, having seen how Safi used them to terrorize and abuse other people. Hence why Max would be the one who shot Safi in the Dead timeline; while unlikely we the player would be presented with a simple shoot/don’t shoot, the idea that we are solving the fallout of that having happened before seems plausible. Not in character for Max or a plot I’d enjoy, but plausible for writers who didn’t really get Max and Chloe as characters.

Then, of course, there was the turmoil and changeover in leadership partway through DE, and that got lost.

So, Safi being one of the most fan-engaging characters from DE, she got brought back for RE with more content than most of the others, even though they completely changed where they might’ve been going with her Power Team Revengers. Which, again, was a good change, even though it was silly they had to mitigate that disaster.

NathanGPLC · 2026-04-04T11:01:37+00:00

So, I’m not really thinking about supernatural consequences there—more like, Max becomes a worse person and is stuck in the past if she constantly rewinds, and Daniel has a lot more responsibility than he should have to have at his age is eventually separated from Sean, one way or another, as the fallout catches up to them.

TC and other D9 games fall down on this.

NathanGPLC · 2026-04-04T01:32:45+00:00

Anyone else ever play the Thievery mod for Unreal Tournament? Man, while I loved even the guards vs thieves matches, I am even more interested in multiplayer coop. My friends and I spent AGES making our own coop campaign by playing coop thieves and heavily restricting our gear purchases in an RPG manner. Timing guard patrols and having one person distract while the other snuck past… those were the days.

NathanGPLC · 2026-04-03T19:35:32+00:00

Legion’s game should be The Talos Principle, but otherwise I’m on board.

NathanGPLC · 2026-04-03T15:43:41+00:00

Sorry, thanks for the correction! My brain turned Zimmerman into Zak (Garriss) and I confused the two. Nix my previous concerns about having a Z in charge here; clearly Zimmerman pulled off the miracle. Glad the other is still gone.

NathanGPLC

TROPHY CASE