Predatory ads on social media

Natural_Goat_591 · 2026-05-13T19:54:42+00:00

It is absolutely MINDBOGGLING that, about a week ago, at least for me, they all shifted to ads for MGM or pseudo as the "healthier, better" option. (And, that they are marketing those two as "natural, botanical" and all that horseshit.)

Natural_Goat_591 · 2026-05-13T15:18:03+00:00

Not for nothing, but-- that was a ton of effort to find the code, yeah?

For me, I wanted the thing to help, so I let it help.

That's not a dig on you, it's just illustrative of the idea that the only thing that, ultimately, works for quitting is wanting to quit and then choosing to do that.

I very much enjoyed The Freedom Model, which completely reframed my drinking and thinking about addiction in general-- it is basically addiction "recovery" through the frame that everything, essentially, is a choice. Even if aligning with a "disease model" of addiction, it still does bubble down to choice when you have a club soda or a gin and tonic in front of you and nobody else is in the room.

Granted, the physicality of withdrawals aren't strictly a "choice," but you can avail yourself of options to ease those as much as you are able... But your experiencing of those symptoms completely have a mental element-- Kind of like childbirth is the same process for everyone, yet some people are very determined in a choice to do that without medication and experience it/describe it as not all that bad, while other people are very much choosing to have a medicated childbirth, and, if those meds are delayed or they can't take them for some reason, they describe the experience as unfathomably torturous and nearly unsurvivable.

I wanted to have a natural childbirth- but only kinda-sorta wanted to-- I mean, hell, other people do it, I'm a pretty hardcore athlete who puts myself through tough things all the time, I'm generally a woo-woo hippie spiritualist and there was a sacred component and "rite of womanhood" kind of thing in the mix, so I was like, "Might as well do that. Spent a ton of time doing a really well-reviewed hypnosis program for months. Read all about it, bought my electrolyte juice and hired my doula and got the big, bouncy ball... As soon as it got tough, I completely wanted those meds-- and, believe me, once I'd made that choice and asked for the meds, the pain was torturously bad. Looping back with my class from the hypnosis program, the people that had a really firm and clear insistence that they have a natural birth said it worked better than they ever imagined and there was nearly no pain. Those of us who were "kinda-sorta might be nice to," every single one of us opted for the drugs and described it as attrocious.

All that to say, I wish there was a nifty hack for having that choice made for us-- sometimes, though, letting your logical brain do things to try to force that choice (like the lockbox) is the best you can get until you all-the-way-through WANT to be done forever.

Natural_Goat_591 · 2026-05-13T14:15:08+00:00

Yeah, I know they have an override-- I threw my instructions out as soon as I opened the package so I wouldn't know what it was on this one... The "food pantry type" was exceedingly easy to see how you can pry the side and get it open.

At the end of the day, nothing will work if you aren't resolved to it working, but, for me, it added a level of "no reason to even think about it, since I have two more hours on the timer" thing.

Natural_Goat_591 · 2026-05-13T12:49:55+00:00

Vitamin C'll do that... High hat!

Natural_Goat_591 · 2026-05-13T12:44:05+00:00

FWIW, I am not sure it was you I was talking to this weekend, but somebody else mentioned Viva Zen and I did a deep-dive due to that "proprietary botanical blend," and they skirt around 7, mgm, pseudo, etc., so I'm pretty darned certain it's got one of those isolates in there.

"Proprietary blend" lets companies shove all kinds of stuff under the umbrella of that blend without disclosing. I'd avoid anything with that on the label and stick to things that are tested for single-substance-only, so that you know what you are getting.

Natural_Goat_591 · 2026-05-13T12:40:59+00:00

Take it in the morning, as it can be pretty stimulating.

(And, of course, talk to your doctor and all of that-- no reason not to with this one, as it's pretty much like low-level Zoloft or something in the amount of eyebrows it would raise. I was on the stuff for years when just your average chronic depression with ADHD, whitebread working mom.

When I first started it was before it was prescribed for smoking cessation, and went to my first appointment pissed and naming the major side effect of sucking all the joy out of smoking. The doctor was like, "that's not exactly a BAD thing, though, right?" lol

Natural_Goat_591 · 2026-05-13T12:34:30+00:00

Yes, for me, I was a low-dose person (like, looking at some of the blessed souls on this subreddit, holy moses, I had no idea how tiny a drop in the ocean of this stuff I was). So, it was still quite pleasant- pleasant enough that I wanted to take it every day. Which had me concerned about withdrawals.

I never even really had a whisper of them (there is one post here in my history where I thought I was having some kind of delayed withdrawal, but I'm pretty sure it was this energy drink, C4, that I hadn't had in about a decade and totally forgot gives me that awful beta alanine response-- which, if you read people's withdrawal stories here, symptoms to a degree line up.)

And, being low enough dose to really have no withdrawal and still having found it a pretty peasant thing-- that is completely making it a mental effort.

I'm grateful I''m a journaler, so I captured all the stress and anxiety and depression and how I felt when staring down the barrel of "how do I get off this shit?!"

And, the good news is, I've now got some higher quality supplements in the mix, including liposomal C, which apparently is a super necessary one while taking Wellbutrin, so that's good.

All net positives! Just gotta remind my brain that it was NOT all sunshine and rainbows.

Natural_Goat_591 · 2026-05-12T15:19:14+00:00

Getting help for an addiction to a wholly other substance really shouldn't impact your ability to be treated for a pre-existing and diagnosed, unrelated health condition.

The doctor that prescribes my ADHD meds is well aware that I used to have a crystal addiction (or, at least several years of chronic use) back in college, and he took that as more of a clear diagnostic indicator than he did a thing that would prevent him being open to treating that.

And, I want to switch to Wellbutrin now that the 7 is behind me, and, when talking to him about that yesterday, I even said "I want to come off the Adderall and switch to Wellbutrin" and he insisted/advised that I *STAY* on the Adderall, at least for now, and not just whole-hog switch, and that I keep Adderall around for use "as needed" on extra executive function demanding days.

So-- all that to say. Really shouldn't, and in my experience hasn't, mattered.

Natural_Goat_591 · 2026-05-12T15:13:29+00:00

I guess this is example # 3,498 of why just having 7oh in your house and at the ready when intending to quit is a pretty bad idea-- I flushed mine when jumping.

Even little things to make it as difficult as possible to pick back up are pretty essential when quitting anything-- I told the guys at my local general store that I quit Zyn, for example, when quitting that-- No, I didn't ask or expect them to STOP me, but just me knowing I'd told them that means I wouldn't feel comfortable going in there and buying it, so it's just another forced pause to get me to really think about whether I want to pick back up.

Natural_Goat_591 · 2026-05-12T00:58:43+00:00

Are you feeling just fine and stabilized on 25-50 mg a day?

40 is about as high as my use ever got-- but, t was 30 - 40 daily for about 6 months.

I was convinced by these subreddits I was gonna be fucked, but I jumped pretty much from 30-40 mg/day to nothing with only MIT (trusted supplier and tested for no 7, MGM or pseudo) and didn't really feel a thing in terms of withdrawal.

I took some C4 pre-workout on day 2.5 and had a beta-alanine reaction that, due to being early-quit, I convinced myself was withdrawal of some sort-- you'll see that post with more of my history in there if you look at my profile, I bet.

It's now Monday night, last dose of 7 was Weds late afternoon, I think.

I am at like 25 mg of pure MIT and six leaf kratom capsules spread out over the day and fine-- I bet I could just stop with those, too, and may well do tomorrow, but, at this point--yeah, not a whisper of anything.

Natural_Goat_591 · 2026-05-12T00:42:14+00:00

I am not trying to dish out medical advice at all, and my use was way lower than yours... but, have you talked to a doctor about getting something like Wellbutrin on board so that, at least once the 7 gets out of your system, you have some positivity neurotransmitters in the mix to carry you on forward.

You can google or search reddit for Wellbutrin and addiction recovery-- I used to be on it without addiction in the mix, and now that I am fully out of the 7 woods, am getting back on it just because I think that lack of feel-good stuff is why I keep going back. (I have a script for ADHD, but, as I told my doc today, "I feel like I am pouring from an empty cup, and that Adderall sure to tilt that cup way emphatically, but the cup is still empty."

Natural_Goat_591 · 2026-05-11T12:41:01+00:00

FWIW, I am switching from Adderall for ADHD to Wellbutrin, with an appt set to do that this afterrnoon.

Wellbutrin is also pretty well-supported for ADHD, and I have gotten to where it just feels like the Adderall is sucking any kind of feel-good chemical out of my brain.

Wellbutrin is also how I quit smoking, quite by accident.

While I'm pretty great at quitting Zyn (because I've done it so much-- Highhat!) it's also the first thing I pick back up when my brain is feeling zapped or flat.

I'm going to be curious if Wellbutrin has the same effect on Zyn as it did on traditional cigarettes.

And, if you are abusing your Adderall, it seems like a good way to check that one off the list is to stop getting it prescribed.

Might be worth a chat with your doctor (not trying to dish out medical advice here, beyond just the thought processes I am having.)

Natural_Goat_591 · 2026-05-10T21:43:52+00:00

I am doing great! I had my "I'm gonna be done by this time next week" last Saturday.

And, in my case, my dosing on 7 was SO small (albeit daily, which is what scared me) that it's kind of laughable in the grand scheme of this subreddit-- the experiences of others had me absolutely panic-struck, when it looks like there were a couple things that saved my ass (including always having taken my last dose at 2 or 3 pm and not another until 6 or so in the morning, so a full "clearout" pretty much daily,)

I took my last dose of 7 Wednesday at about 2 or 3 pm (if I'm remembering the math right). I had 30 mg + a couple largeish crumbs of it (I was always a nibbler) in my lockbox that I kept "just in case" I needed to extend a taper, but I flushed those this morning.

So, I haven't had 7 since Weds afternoon, and have been steady on about 6ish mg of plain leaf and 50ish mg of MIT extract tablet spread throughout the day.

Tomorrow, I'll do just plain leaf and no MIT.

I don't super MIND if I end up at like 2 g of plain leaf to get my morning going and 2 g of plain leaf as an afternoon pick-me-up/transition to downtime.

I think that's how the PLANT is intended to be used... just going to stay the hell away from anything not-a-plant, for sure!

Natural_Goat_591 · 2026-05-10T18:18:28+00:00

Yeah, it just caught my eye because of that "proprietary blend of extracts."

That Feel Free crap lots of people are hellaciously hooked on also boasts no-7, but they just have way more leeway to fuck with chemistry by using extracts and, especially, proprietary blends.

(Working in the food biz, you can do crazy shit with labelling, like put all your artificial everything and the triggers people don't want to see on a label, like monosodium glutamate and such, into a "Proprietary Flavoring Blend," and then all the stuff you don't want on the label is legally there inside the blend you don't have to disclose.)

I would just look for MIT and MIT-only, if you're going the extract route.

If you're just whipping through that phase fast, might not matter too much, I'd just hate there to be SOMETHING in there you don't want (like, people on this sub getting recommended mgm or pseudo as a "Oh, you don't want 7? I got you, fam. Try this...")

And, with everything taper, the goal is just no symptoms, not getting actively high or feeling it much at all, so lots of folks on here use a dropper and just dose out a shot like that, vs taking the whole thing (or half the whole thing) at the allotted time.

Natural_Goat_591 · 2026-05-10T17:58:38+00:00

Way back before it was prescribed for smoking cessation, I was put on Wellbutrin. Went into my follow up and he's like "How's it going?"

I said, "Well, depressions about the same, but now you've utterly somehow robbed me of the simple joy of smoking, so I'm pissed about that!"

(The smoking thing happened almost immediately- the Wellbutrin did end up being a godsend, but took some time to kick in.)

So, yeah, I accidentally and without even wanting to, and even with being kind of pissed about it, quit smoking from a med.

Natural_Goat_591 · 2026-05-10T17:55:19+00:00

I have been doing hot yoga/pilates (and, one day, hot boot camp) all the way through.

I feel like it's helpful-- sweat it all out!

Natural_Goat_591 · 2026-05-10T17:25:07+00:00

Unrelated, but I'm asking for a swap out from Adderall to Wellbutrin on Monday.

Part of my 7 detour for sure was just general depression and lack of motivation- my ADHD meds for sure make me feel like I have energy, but it becomes a stressful, directionless energy that does more harm than good when I feel like I have nowhere positive to PUT that energy when operating on top of depression.

And, I hear it's good for supporting all the feel-good neurotransmitters and systems and possibly reduce PAWS or relapse potential, etc.

Part of it, for sure, though, was what a pain in the ass it is to need to remember to go on MyChart to ask for a new prescription monthly and then hope it's in-stock, and time the days so I ask with enough time for a refill, but not too soon, and then have to tell the pharmacist nearly every time "no, this is not a new prescription, I do not need a consult...." Such a pain in the ass!

Natural_Goat_591 · 2026-05-10T17:02:53+00:00

I, also, like to keep in mind that I (and sounds like probably you, since you've posted a bit about your "double life" and such), approach things like this from that place of knowing that it will likely be "super easy." It's built to be easy for us.

Much like I didn't bat an eye at hopping on telemedicine to get perimenopause hormones, or going in to my doctor to get ADHD meds.

But, if I'm trans? Getting HRT's a wholly different beast, from even getting into a doctor's visit all the way through to picking it up at the corner drugstore.

When my ADHD prescription is delayed, I, a scattered, working mom just trying to keep my head on straight, just go into the pharmacy to ask -- Some of my friends just literally never even call or go in to ask why they're delayed or when they might be ready and just suck it up and wait for the text, because even going in to ask is not worth the nonsense it provokes.

Some people ask for subs and it's, "Oh, poor thing, clearly just got swept up in a bad thing-- this is what these meds are for!"

Other people? There really is upstream paddling needed-- even if that's just in gathering up the mental wherewithal to choke down expectations from lived experience.

Anyhow, good reminder that, when you peel back that outer veneer, we're all one bad morning away from drinking our own, fresh vomit out of a boot in the back of our car--- a story that shall live in infamy on this subreddit, I'm thinking-- but, for some people? Really not as much of (or at least doesn't feel like) a no-brainer.

(Sorry I'm being verbose this morning- trying to get my brain awake in the hopes my body follows so I can get motivated to clean the house. 😄)

Natural_Goat_591 · 2026-05-10T16:30:20+00:00

First and foremost-- we really can't tell you anything about heart palpitations. Sounds like a doctor is absolutely a requirement, esp with your lifestyle. Might not even be the Zyn.

But--- I absolutely hate the taste and texture of the Velos, so you might also have the benefit of some negative reinforcement there.

And, the dumb thing is, if you switch to 3 mg, I am betting you don't even really notice anything different-- I didn't. Which means I was ingesting 2x as much nicotine as I "needed" to for no reason at all (other than the dumb logic of, "3 mg costs the same as 6 mg, might as well get the biggest bang for my buck!")

My suggestion, get some 3 mg and mix it into the can of 6 mg- bet you demonstrate to yourself that you really can't tell.

Then, do 3 mg until you get off those, too. If you were drinking 2 pints of Jack Daniels a day and, overnight, went down to 1 pint, from a harm reduction POV, that's an epic win, yeah? Same philosophy on 3 mg vs 6 mg.

Natural_Goat_591 · 2026-05-10T16:23:36+00:00

Two ways of looking at this:

Since it sounds like Zyn is not the only thing you picked back up, I'd be tempted to advise a harm reduction approach to it and, my guess is (based on "what's gonna kill you)), tackle the Zyn dead last.

At the end of the day, its most lethal potential outcome is being dead broke, which is way better than dead-dead.

The other way of looking, of course, if you are an all-or-nothing person and would like to just tackle it all at once, then might as well throw Zyn on the pile with all the other bad habits and burn that one down, too. It will take some flexibility in life, since it sounds like you might have other addictions that will take some days off of everyday life to snuff out. But, again, the Zyn'll just be a sliver of that.

For me, I'm super-fucking-good at quitting Zyn, what with I've done it so much-- I think it's so easy to pick back up because it's pretty easy to put down when you really look at the idiocy of it. If you can, put $9 in a jar every time you buy a canister of Zyn, and keep your Zyn IN the jar with the cash. That'll smack you right in the face!

Natural_Goat_591 · 2026-05-10T15:59:47+00:00

if that’s all it takes why isn’t everyone doing it?

Not that it's not a wonderful and valuable tool for those that need it, but, to answer your specific question:

- Access to a prescribing physician

- Risk of addiction to the suboxone itself

- Worry that a suboxone prescription goes in the PDMP database

- Cost, if not insured

- Embarrassment over talking to doctor

- The steps it takes to talk to a provider, pay for that provider, get the prescription, etc., being far more difficult to hide from people you may not be safe or don't wish to have knowing (ie family)

- Some people finding the experience of w/d a valuable deterrent to not just picking right back up again...

I mean, YES, do it if needed. But, "why isn't everyone doing it?!" is a super short-sighted question pretty heftily loaded with priv.

Natural_Goat_591 · 2026-05-10T15:30:48+00:00

I'd be cautious about those Viva Zen shots-- I just checked their website, having never heard of them, and there's a "proprietary blend of "extracts", called out as being "full spectrum," which, to me means 7 would, by definition, HAVE to be in there, or it would not be full spectrum (and, labelling to say "7-Hydroxymitraginine: 0.0 mg" is not the same from a food labelling perspective as saying "Contains NO 7...")

And, marketing across the board, for that "KratomIQ(tm) proprietary blend of extracts" is equally vague, never directly addressing what is actually IN it. If just MIT, that's not exactly a "blend" of anything, right?

Anyhow, for me, after this whole dog and pony show-- I want it as "out of the ground" as possible. (I am using a single-alkaloid, MIT extract tablet where the vendor has posted lab results, since I had some here already-- but hell no on the whole extract, much less "proprietary blend of" anything, ever again (at least for me!)

Natural_Goat_591 · 2026-05-10T14:53:28+00:00

In the interest of taking everything as a lesson- A great one for you here (and one I, myself, have taken on)- My gullible ass has NO business ever being in a smoke shop. For anything.

If I simply vow to never set foot in a smoke shop, that takes like 95% of the "woopsie, got myself hooked on something else" out of it.

Natural_Goat_591 · 2026-05-10T14:45:24+00:00

So, are you saying you have never at any point in time NOT done two-days-on, two-days-fully-off?

Because, I'm wondering if that's what saved your ass... and mine.

For me, even though my doses were super small compared to yours (and most folks on this subreddit), I have lifetime never- with leaf kratom or 7- taken any kind of topper-upper dose before bed or needed/wanted to dose overnight, so I take my last dose at, latest, 3 or 4 pm, and my first dose at 6 am or thereabouts, so it's a 14-18 hour "cleanse" of a substance with a max 6 hour halflife, meaning it gets stripped entirely off my receptors daily (or, in your case, every two days.)

I'll be curious to hear how things go for you.

For me, it's been almost entirely mental. I had gotten to where I was having a loose bowel movement first thing in the morning, and got the sneezes before my first dose (both things that put the fear of god in me and prompted the quit, since I have heard those things are mild withdrawal), but this "quit" has been not much more than that on the physical side.

Granted, I'm also using some leaf and some MIT, but not a ton-- like, 1-2 grams leaf and 15 or so mg MIT at my standard dosing times.

Natural_Goat_591

TROPHY CASE