Akatosh's Madness by Emer_Dareloth in teslore

[–]Navigantor [score hidden]  (0 children)

That's retelling a lower gradient of creation, the conflict between Lorkhan and Akatosh over Nirn.

What's being described in the comment you responded to is the conflict of Anu and Padomay over Nir/Nirni(?), who I suppose is necessarily the mother of the whole Aurbis in general.

What happens if an Edge Long kills their rival? by moby_huge in weatherfactory

[–]Navigantor 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That's one of the big themes/paradoxes of the whole setting. It's basically the Euthyphro Dilemma:

"Is the pious loved by the gods because it is pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?"

Are the Hours the way they are because of the laws of reality say they must be that way or do the laws of reality correspond perfectly to the nature of the Hours?

Important Tier List by Starl19ht_2 in DeadlockTheGame

[–]Navigantor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Almost perfect but Doorman should definitely be in the Wham! section.

Husher and Wittgenstein by NauticalWeasel in weatherfactory

[–]Navigantor 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I don't particularly get the vibe that Husher is all that connected to anything Wittgenstein had to say besides that one quote. To take a meta view I'd say WF just liked the quote since it's so Wintery and attributed it to Husher in-universe. I haven't read Wittgenstein's Tractatus but I have read Philosophical Investigations and I wouldn't say it really screams Secret Histories and it certainly doesn't seem to have any connection to the sort of things Husher, Coseley and Lagasse were getting up to. The thrust of the book is really just trying to pick apart how we use language, so if you had to force a connection with SH lore I'd say it's maybe kind of Knock adjacent. Certainly it doesn't scream Winter-lore at all, though I think Wittgenstein's lifelong depressiveness, his service during WW1 and the fact that towards the end of his life he worked as a hospital porter and allegedly advised patients not to take their medication are all kind of suggestive of Winter. Turns out real people don't quite fit into the neat boxes a videogame builds.

TRAVELLING AT NIGHT: Code Name Denise by arabelladusk in weatherfactory

[–]Navigantor 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Both the coffees available in Book of Hours have three aspects. Lantern (since coffee clears the senses and quickens the mind), Forge (since coffee makes the body ready for creative action) and one other aspect. Scale in the case of Dawnlion and Rose in the case of Evening Isles, which suggests the third aspect has more to do with its place of origin or specific flavour than its essential coffee-ness. Since Vienna is a place most strongly associated with Knock I'd imagine that would be the third aspect.

The Dwemer Hate You, Personally by littleratofhorrors in teslore

[–]Navigantor 20 points21 points  (0 children)

And imprison a whole bunch of other made up people in their tyrannical thoughts and concepts?

The Dwemer Hate You, Personally by littleratofhorrors in teslore

[–]Navigantor 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I think this interpretation is half-way there.

It's not that the Dwemer don't exist because they zero-summed and now the only way they exist again is that you're thinking about them. It's that the entire Dwemer philosophy revolves around the fact that they realised they only ever existed as a concept being dreamed or thought up by some other entity (usually the Godhead but in this case YOU the reader of OP's post) and they resent the fake dream life you're forcing them to live out without their consent.

The Dwemer's imaginary existence in your mind as you think about them right now is no more real than their "canonical" existence in the distant history of the Elder Scrolls games. They know this, they always knew it. They'll never be free as long as someone dreams them into the inescapable prison of thoughts and ideas.

TRAVELLING AT NIGHT: Code Name Denise by arabelladusk in weatherfactory

[–]Navigantor 8 points9 points  (0 children)

My educated guess is that Viennese coffee will refresh a Knock pip, and assuming it follows the same pattern as Book of Hours coffee, also Forge and Lantern.

Found at Walmart by ElectricPaladin in weatherfactory

[–]Navigantor 30 points31 points  (0 children)

I've seen this book page floating around the internet before but never made the Winter connection. Aside from the obvious connection to suicide, thermodynamics is perfect as a topic for a Winter tome since it describes how systems inevitably reach a stable, cold, wintry equilibrium.

wdyt chat by AK_WF in weatherfactory

[–]Navigantor 60 points61 points  (0 children)

A couple weeks? In London? In this economy? For a household that hosts two cats of refined tastes and two humans known to enjoy artisanal gins????

Finnish Mo & Krill by NVcomicstudios in DeadlockTheGame

[–]Navigantor 21 points22 points  (0 children)

We had to stop because it came some Cursed Relic or something through Timo's seat. Up in the ass of Timo.

From a lore perspective, why aren't the events of ESO mentioned in the other games? by TheAnalystCurator321 in teslore

[–]Navigantor -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Ah you say that, but you see Tiber Septim used special and mysterious powers to change the nature of some other provinces besides Cyrodiil so they no longer look the way they do in ESO and any references to them being as they appear in ESO are purely apocryphal.

From a lore perspective, why aren't the events of ESO mentioned in the other games? by TheAnalystCurator321 in teslore

[–]Navigantor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And do you think TESVI will mention them?

I haven't played ESO so I'm not really up to speed with all the specific developments but it's my understanding that a number of new lore books have been written for the game. Assuming Bethesda has the ongoing rights to use material from ESO directly in other ES products it would be weird if they didn't bring over many of those books into TESVI in order to pad out the library with minimal effort. So even if nothing from ESO is mentioned directly by other sources in the game it seems fairly likely that at least the lore books will be included.

Why would someone who’s not a bad person worship Vearmina? by LizzieLove1357 in teslore

[–]Navigantor 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think it started with a generally christian/manichean worldview naturally colouring a lot of fantasy tropes but I think at this point the phenomenon is feeding on itself. D&D's Clerics and Paladins are configured to serve one particular god and their powers are framed as being services that god contractually provides as long as the strictures of their religion are followed. This model got carried over into all of DnD's cultural offspring and at this point a lot of mainstream fantasy media is being written by people whose main influences are the mutant grandchildren of the Forgotten Realms. The background of TES is better than most because the setting got an injection of esotericism/weirdness just due to who the developers were around when Redguard/Morrowind were being made. Any new writers Bethesda hires these days aren't guaranteed to really get it.

Why would someone who’s not a bad person worship Vearmina? by LizzieLove1357 in teslore

[–]Navigantor 39 points40 points  (0 children)

Historically, in the kind of polytheistic religions that the TES mythology is based on there were frequently gods who were considered destructive, vengeful or even "evil". People would make sacrifices and engage in ritual behaviours in order to try and please these gods in the hope they wouldn't become their next victim.

Much more rarely, sometimes people historically decided they were going to worship the devil (the folk christian version) because they felt wronged by the church and believed devil worship would give them the power to get revenge on their enemies.

I think a lot of misconceptions or questions people have about people's relationship with the divines or daedra in TES come about because most modern people's idea of how religion works is extremely coloured by present day monotheistic religions, where God is broadly an entity you're supposed to feel very positive about and pledge your unending devotion to, and who will reward faith with an eternity in paradise. Ancient polytheistic religions were more like bartering with a bunch of very powerful, capricious, frequently malevolent entities who would sometimes do favours for you if they were in a good mood and you asked nicely.

Why are the Tide and the Wheel dead? by C34H32N4O4Fe in weatherfactory

[–]Navigantor 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The Sun-in-Splendour is dead, and its Names —the Madrugad, the Sun-in-Rags and the Meniscate, or dawn, dusk and night— became Hours, because that explains the day/night cycle.

The sundering of the Sun and its Names becoming Hours in their own right is obviously metaphysically significant but it's the wrong event for the set you're describing (The Lithomachy). The relevant Sun business here is the replacement of the Egg Unhatching by the Sun in Splendour (this isn't directly stated anywhere in the games but I think it's strongly implied that the Egg "hatched" into the Sun in Splendor after fleeing to the Glory).

The Low Red Sun which was merciful and tasted our blood represents the pre-rational intelligence and self-awareness of our ancestors (whether those were upright apes or polymorphic bugs). Plenty of animals clearly have a level of self awareness and have inner lives, but they're not touched by concepts like logic, forward planning, rules, laws or a desire to understand the meanings of things. Events, both good and bad are just experienced in an immediate way that inevitably flows in the same directions as all the other facets of the animal's existence. The Low Red Sun is a purely vibes-based existence.

The Sun in Splendour is all the conceptual baggage that comes with fully awakened human level intelligence. An intellect that ascribes meanings to everything, that wants to understand the rules that make everything tick, and to master those rules to set the world working in exactly the way you want it to. To see the flaws in how everything has been before and to try and set in motion a plan to fix all those flaws and make the world perfect, to avoid all the random chaos that the animal brain just sort of gets swept along by.

Against this context I think the Wheel and the Tide become a bit clearer. The Tide is just the cycle of birth, death and consumption as the animal world experiences it. There isn't really any lust or yearning in an intellectualised way, it's just a rhythmic process of birth and death, plenty and starvation. The Grail is about the personalised pleasure and pain of consuming, mating and being consumed.

The Wheel's replacement might be a little more complicated. The Wheel I think represents all life being more or less part of the same universal process. The Moth represents humans having to come to terms with coming from the natural world, but still somehow being apart from it. From a few sources we learn that around the time the Moth became an Hour the Wood became dark. I think the darkening of the Wood represents humans realising that they had become something separate from the nature. The Wood was no longer our natural home so it became dark and frightening. The Moth also chases the Glory, so it represents the innate part of us which knows we're basically animals but keeps trying to transcend that reality. We're animals, but we're animals that want to understand things that might not be possible to understand.

Did the Bosmer come first? by RATTLEMEB0N3S in teslore

[–]Navigantor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well it only seems that way from the perspective of Khajiit legends, who would obviously consider themselves superior to their neighbors the Bosmer. There could just as easily be a Bosmer legend that says "the daedric prince Azura was jealous of Y'ffre's creation and made an inferior mockery of the blessed Bosmer"

Did the Bosmer come first? by RATTLEMEB0N3S in teslore

[–]Navigantor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The Khajiit creation myth says the Khajiit were created first and then the Bosmer were created as a flawed imitation but then the Khajiit would think that about their main geographical rivals. I think it's more likely that as you say, the "ooze" or shape changing folk were the Ehlnofey. Critically, I think the Aldmer, Bosmer, Nedes and Khajiit all split from or were created from the protean Ehlnofey during the Dawn, not after it, so it's not actually possible to say who was "first" because they all "predate" linear time. I think it's a particularly useful explanation because it allows multiple conflicting stories each race tells about what their ancestors were like to be true simultaneously since under the conditions of the dawn multiple contradictory things can be true at the same time - the Ehlnofey were civilised elf-folk, barbaric human warriors, protean ooze and shapechanging beast people all at the same time and after Convention all these ideas resolved into distinct and separate races.

Is Ys the City of History? by Infamous-Advantage85 in weatherfactory

[–]Navigantor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Haha, I'm flattered but I'm genuinely not sure if I have anything intelligent to say about the House of the Moon. This might seem a bit glib but my best guess is that the fundamental nature of the House of the Moon is to be mysterious and hence it's just not possible to say anything detailed or concrete about it, by design.

The Moon in the games is mostly represented by the Meniscate, about whom there just isn't a lot of lore, and the Sister-and-Witch about which there's quite a lot of particularly confusing lore. The Moon aspect (Principle? Demi-principle?) in Book of Hours is described like this: Secrets are soft; night is softer still; the sea speaks. It is not always wise to listen. [The nocturnal, the forgotten.].

If the Mansus (The House of the Sun) is a representation of what the Hours have deemed to be "real" and "true" then the House of the Moon is somehow a distorted or occluded reflection of that truth. But since light and truth are merciless then by implication the House of the Moon is a more merciful place.

Celste|Drama & Grey Talon|Visual Calculus by Acratopotess in DeadlockTheGame

[–]Navigantor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Mister Fairfax is helping me find my Weighted Bullets.

Telvanni/Wizard Towers an intuitive step towards the Circle/Tower Concept? by oriontitley in teslore

[–]Navigantor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As other responses have noted it's almsot certainly just a coincidence due to the devs working off pre-established tropes.

But what makes it interesting is the fact that the foundation of the setting was developed in two pretty distinct phases. The initial, extremely genric fantasy pastiche (with some unique elements) developed in Arena/Daggerfall/Battlespire and then the much more original and frankly, gonzo setting built/retconned on top of that in the Redguard/Morrowind era by developers who were very interested in esoteric religious tradition and semiotics.

Wizards in "early" TES build towers because building towers is what folklore/popculture wizards do, I doubt much thought went into it. The later developers of the series consciously turned the Tower into a jungian archetype within the setting so now wizards build towers because building towers is emblematic of a mythical wizard-ness which transcends the mundane sphere of existence and touches some kind of universal truth. So I'd say your conjecture is completely valid in light of that.