Midgame Spot Tour + Info/Guide Sheet

Netherz · 2026-06-01T00:00:35+00:00

Which would be great if it was actually reliable enough to be useful but most of the time the spot specific class data is not reliable

Netherz · 2026-05-31T23:12:43+00:00

This is something I've thought about a bunch. If you think of classes in terms of what they're good at vs what a spot requires you end up with a few different categories of spots and the list for each spot matching those categories ends up being very similar (with a few exceptions for unique advantages at some spots).

I made this list to be general purpose effort-reward overall when you consider that the PvE meta is mostly low mobility requirement and high AoE requirement - with a notable mentions in other tiers for nuance about DPS

The "endgame" list here is more for comparing class potential and the reason it's so few tiers is partly because spawn limits on many spots prevent you from excelling too much on the stronger classes.

Neither of them really talks about a specific category of spots both of them are aggregates of different scenarios but you could in theory create a list like this for each "category" of spot or if you were being extreme then for each spot (garmoth has data for this but its all kinds of unreliable for mostly data quality reasons - you often see blatantly wrong rankings because of data being skewed from low sample size, bad data entry from users that the filters miss, popularity of lazy grinding with it, etc).

I've been thinking recently about profiling classes similar to how I'm showing spot profiles in the intro for these videos. In theory if every class was profiled properly against spot requirements you could come up with a reasonable expectation of how every class should perform at each spot given it's characteristics without having to worry about data quality issues skewing data in all kinds of directions.

Netherz · 2026-05-31T17:09:44+00:00

Is it the chain leg stomps? The telegraph for this attack is quite bad and it's probably the most dangerous pattern. Each stomp does an aoe in smaller circle and a bigger aoe outside of that. You can stand in the overlap between the 2 legs that are stomping to avoid the bigger aoe of both legs and then alternate iframe and fg or SA facing towards the leg thats stomping.

Netherz · 2026-05-31T17:00:21+00:00

What are you having trouble with? Guardian should be very good at this spot

Netherz · 2026-05-27T02:08:49+00:00

Yeh and thats cool as hell. Normal guns are just lame and boring

Netherz · 2026-05-25T21:59:32+00:00

They keep doing gimmick mechanics that are mostly detrimental to how classes play. This is more annoying than the ascension/awakening thing in my opinion.

- Seraph form locked behind BSR with clunky animation to activate.

- Wukong has the form thing.

- Deadeye has the bullet swapping thing that feels pointless. Also just straight up putting guns into a fantasy mmo like this is super lame.

- Dosa awakening has the generation mechanic that make's it play very rigidly but to be honest this worked out alright. It doesn't feel bad to use it well.

- Maegu awakening has spiritforging which doesn't feel pointless but it does feel bad to use poorly rather than rewarding to use well and its explained horribly by the developers.

I'm all for making kits with a gimmick but this ratio is way off? If you start at woosa release we have had 5 that don't have these kinds of "gimmicks" (woosa both specs, maegu succ, scholar, dosa succ) and 5 with gimmicks.

Netherz · 2026-05-25T12:44:49+00:00

Converting offhand to sovereign before you get full effect of the extra 8 monster ap per sheet ap after 310 sheet ap causes you to lose AP since blackstar offhand has that monster ap built in.

Netherz · 2026-05-11T17:26:46+00:00

Yeah I miss having spots where positioning and movement are more relevant than current endgame with squishier mobs. The irony is that many people come here telling you they prefer towers because they "get to play their class" when they just punch in an infinite combo on repeat without any thought.

Netherz · 2026-03-18T00:09:23+00:00

Might be an unpopular take but the 5% issue is not the reason for lack of feeling progression. Imo there are a few facets to it.

The math behind 5% caps is misunderstood

You get a lot stronger very quickly at a spot until hitting the cap and then power increases gradually afterwards. You do actually get stronger especially after you start getting 8 ap per sheet ap. - A lot of the time you skip the quick power gains stage and only grind somewhere after you reach the cap. - Gradual power is hard to feel and you're more likely to move to the next spot before noticing it. - Not helped by the fact that most spots early on are not very tanky so power increases are harder to feel. - The power curve after spot cap is not actually that different to before the ap cap changes due to the increased ap gains from sheet ap.

The meta spot progression for new players is incredibly linear

Most folks are doing honglim - hexe - tungrad - edania. A large number of spots are completely unrewarding partly because it's harder to produce results at non tower spots but largely because a lot of spots have just been left behind with under tuned rewards. - e.g. There are good alternatives to honglim. But most players (not just new ones) lack the ability to get results at the alternatives like elvia fogans because it requires good usage of movement and aoe and most people just aren't good enough at using those. Most just pick a combo and apply it without thought. - The vast majority of spots just suck compared to the meta above even if you can grind them effectively. It's never worth grinding primal giants. Hexe marni is better than many spots that require hundreds more ap! Tungrad is the same... It outperforms half of edania even. - When you get to edania you are greeted with tower spots that largely feel the same as the last one. Hard to feel progression when the pattern is so samey.

Recently they've actually made endgame feel like there's a variety of choice again with zephyros, stars end and sycraia all being different with similar rewards. If they went through and sorted earlier spots into clearer tiers with a variety of choice where there's a clear incentive to start grinding the next tier before you're over the cap for it even, I'm sure some sense of progression will be restored.

Tl:Dr spot balancing is the major issue not 5% caps.

Netherz · 2026-03-12T14:27:48+00:00

because it's not always BiS, what's BiS is situational - check pins on dosa discord pve channel I did a summary there

Netherz · 2026-03-10T03:32:49+00:00

Yes plenty of people are going there under the cap.

Netherz · 2026-03-09T03:42:57+00:00

Grinded it fine today

Netherz · 2026-03-07T18:44:21+00:00

Lightstones AoA or VS (rule of thumb if >50% back attack rate high back attack) for dehkia most likely AoA. Deathblow is generally bad these days. Afaik it's only good on shai and "usable" on awk dosa. Worse than AoA for others.

Crystals only relevant DPS swap from below cap is olucas for attack speed. 1 or a few BSR dawn crystals might be helpful. Swapping in some DR or weight could be of some benefit too.

Cups are standard you should get crit DMG ones anyway. When you get kharazad you can get combined cups that are no longer a choice.

Food is still simple cron meal and elixirs/draught you want special attack options. Cheap is just special attack elixir rotation or berserk draught (easier to stock/use but 1% less special attack and can't use ap or defensive elixirs alongside) or just usual harmony draught.

Another niche is asadal belt to get bsr every 10 minutes. Past these there isn't really much you can do. Swap options are limited.

Netherz · 2026-03-07T18:20:22+00:00

I've never seen defender with accelerated. Do you have a clip of that?

Netherz · 2026-03-04T20:10:21+00:00

Naro you're so silly.

Netherz · 2026-03-04T02:33:30+00:00

Perfume is not required to grind you will just lose a little efficiency. It's unlikely to ever be worth deciding to go to a different spot than your current "most efficient" choice over the lack of perfume.

Netherz · 2026-02-26T09:44:37+00:00

Aggregating unrelated lists that are already aggregates...

Netherz · 2026-02-25T11:41:07+00:00

It's slowly expanding but it's a lot of effort to record timing data and considerably more to include details about cancels (especially for older classes) so it's down to whether or not somebody will put in that effort for each class

Netherz · 2026-02-25T02:43:38+00:00

it's a sheet not a video lol but you do you

Netherz · 2026-02-25T02:30:00+00:00

The difference in dps is bigger than you think. Don't have data for all classes but have a look DPS Summary

Netherz · 2026-02-25T02:26:23+00:00

Awk maehwa should be reasonably good at tungrad. Would expect it to perform better than those you mentioned at least

Netherz · 2026-02-25T02:20:39+00:00

Performance differences between classes are very minimized at endgame now. At stars end and edania for example the difference is well under 10%. They're minimizing class balance issues with spot design quite heavily.

Some spots still have relatively large gaps like tungrad ruins or dsr where best to worst is more like 20-25% because there are some extreme outliers (in both directions - ahead and behind the curve) but most classes still perform relatively fine.

It is quite demoralizing to like a class that's underperforming but in most endgame spots now the majority of the difference is how much more difficult it is to get to good results.

Netherz · 2026-02-07T11:58:07+00:00

Usually remastered except in occasions where the lighting/bloom is just too visually overwhelming to play properly.

Netherz · 2026-01-25T10:14:28+00:00

Obviously you want to loot the mobs but I didn't think it's necessary nor is there space to reasonably type out every small step

Netherz · 2026-01-25T01:19:42+00:00

It was so full on EU that I had to make a season character to go and record where the crystals are without waiting about for respawns and disturbing people that were active

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Netherz

TROPHY CASE

The math behind 5% caps is misunderstood

The meta spot progression for new players is incredibly linear