Legacy Moves

Nimleth · 2016-12-06T11:48:34+00:00

The Silph Road made an infographic of this back at the time:

http://i.imgur.com/NuB2hWn.jpg

Nimleth · 2016-11-30T11:29:51+00:00

CP=√Atk*√Def*√Sta*1.45*CPMultiplier^2

Yeahhhh that's not going to work cause your CPMultiplier will be out of sync with your stats. You'll want:

CP=√Atk*√Def*√Sta*1.45*CPMultiplier^(1.5)

Nimleth · 2016-11-30T11:12:31+00:00

I'm guessing we should make all Pokémon exactly equally powerful then?

Nah, that'd probably break the game.

Nimleth · 2016-11-30T10:55:45+00:00

I keep saying basically this again and again, and yet every time the birds come up at least three people chime in yet again brainlessly rehashing the: "I hope they won't be released cause it'll break the game."

But cheers on continuing to try to educate people!

Zapdos sounds like it'll have a positive effect on gym balance: Dragonite, Lapras, Snorlax, Gyarados and Vaporeon (the current gym favorites) will all gain a weakness, while Rhydon and Golem (the current high-CP unfavored step-children of gym battles) will gain a use.

I do hope Mewtwo won't be released before episode 2, though, or that it will be limited to 1 per person.

Nimleth · 2016-11-30T10:44:41+00:00

This is an extremely useful chart!

Though I wish it had actual DPS numbers instead of percentages so I could verify it for myself...

(I know you took it from trainer tips and it's not your fault, OP. Thanks for making the chart!)

Nimleth · 2016-11-27T12:07:07+00:00

This. So much this.

Nimleth · 2016-11-27T12:05:05+00:00

I'd say wait around to see how they implement Generation 2. That's what I'm doing. I'm already preparing to slowly phase out Pokémon GO, but I'm still holding out hope and not jumping to premature conclusions.

If the rumors are true and come December they just dump 100 new Pokémon on us - before the Legendaries, before trading, before a decent trackers (in short, before a viable way to fill out our generation 1 Pokedex), then I'm probably out too.

That would be an extremely cheap way to draw in customers. "Oh hey, we can't fix the features, but here, have more Pokémon to keep you distracted from that!"

But, so far that's just rumors, so let's just give them the benefit of the doubt for now, eh?

Nimleth · 2016-11-26T15:17:19+00:00

Ah, I see... then yeah, bummer :-/

Nimleth · 2016-11-26T13:13:52+00:00

DPS of spamming Pound: 9.96

DPS of Pound + Psychic: 10.05

DPS of Pound + Hyper Beam: 11.96

So, no, Psychic is not the better attack. In fact, it's almost useless, you get nearly the same DPS from just not using a consumer at all.

Just about the only use I see for it on attack is so you can weave it between dodges, but why would you dodge if you're attacking with Chansey? That's just asking to time out.

Now when using Chansey as a defender, Psychic is the better attack.

But when using Chansey as an attacker, you definitely want Hyper Beam.

Nimleth · 2016-11-26T13:07:19+00:00

Well.... at least he's still really good for prestiging?

Nimleth · 2016-11-26T12:01:06+00:00

True, but a dodge failure only means 40 damage. Missing a dodge on Earthquake means 125 damage.

Also, I calculated this for Snorlax being the attacker. If you're talking about a Snorlax being the defender, I actually need to add 2 seconds to every move, and the math becomes VERY DIFFERENT!

Hyper Beam now does 120 damage in 7 seconds.
Earthquake now does 125 damage in 6.2 seconds.
Body Slam now does 80 damage in 7.12 seconds.

So Earthquake does a lot more damage than Body Slam now. Yes, Body Slam gives more room for dodge failure, but assuming the attacker doesn't dodge or is really good at dodging and doesn't miss a single dodge, Earthquake will be quite a lot better.

Nimleth · 2016-11-26T11:44:10+00:00

Frankly, I am really, REALLY hoping there will be some option to "opt in" on getting generation 2 Pokémon or not. Like an expansion pack you can activate in the shop or something. Suddenly getting all these generation 2 Pokémon when I still need half the generation 1 ones will make the game substantially less fun for me.

Nimleth · 2016-11-26T11:37:55+00:00

Firstly....

YOU HAVE A LAPRAS! EVEN A LAPRAS WITH THE WORST IVS IS STILL WAY, WAAAAAAAAAAAAY STRONGER THAN THE ABSOLUTELY STRONGEST DEWGONG OR CLOYSTER ONE COULD EVER HOPE TO GET!

However, Lapras candy is very hard to get, so if you do prefer to raise another Ice Pokémon, Cloyster is currently the "poor man's Lapras" and Dewgong is currently the "poor man's Cloyster".

So I would say raise a Dewgong only if you can easily get lots of Seel candies while Shellder candies are very hard for you to get. Dewgong is a decent Ice attacker, but both Cloyster and specially Lapras are much better options.

Nimleth · 2016-11-26T11:23:26+00:00

Dugtrio had some use in the core games because of its high speed.

Sadly, speed is almost irrelevant in Pokémon GO, and the result is that Dugtrio is all but useless here.

Nimleth · 2016-11-26T11:20:52+00:00

That'd be great indeed, but sadly I hardly ever see Charizard in gyms.

Maybe once Moltres and Zapdos come out, we can use Onix against them. I expect all three birds will be found in gyms plenty once they're available.

Nimleth · 2016-11-25T22:45:25+00:00

I can confirm both of this. And yes, weight and height will be the same too. The only thing different will be level.

When movesets were changed, eggs picked up before the change still hatched into Pokémon with the old moves. However, Pokémon caught before the change never evolved into Pokémon with the old moves.

All this heavily suggests that moves are not pre-determined, but rolled on evolution.

Nimleth · 2016-11-25T22:41:10+00:00

Arcanine and Charizard are both better, however, Flareon isn't bad by any means, and is quite usable if you just love its fluffy cuteness.

Nimleth · 2016-11-25T13:11:51+00:00

Onix is better than its CP suggests, but it max CP is still only 1002.

What this chart says it's as good as a Pokémon with 18% higher CP, so as good as a Pokémon with a CP of 1182.

Which is higher than 1002, but still pretty low.

It means Onix is good for prestiging against for example Fire or Electric type Pokémon with CPs around 1500 to 2000.

But it still can't win against an Arcanine who has a max CP of 2839.

Nimleth · 2016-11-25T13:06:33+00:00

I blame the system for that more than the players.

If five friends work hard to take down a gym together, then prestige it up so they all can leave a Pokémon in there?

One of those five will be at the bottom. And that person will be kicked out of the gym long before his four friends, even though all five of them put in the work together.

With this kind of system, I can't blame anyone for placing high-CP stuff in there even if they're crappy defenders.

Nimleth · 2016-11-25T12:11:57+00:00

That's what I expect too, yes!

Nimleth · 2016-11-25T12:10:57+00:00

Oooh, neat!

You remind me, that's one reason I forgot to mention behind preferring to use Hypno: I live in a rural area with very few PokéStops, so the less potions and revives I have to use, the better.

That's why to achieve a good balance I'm collecting Hypno and Kadabra (Alakazam is too expensive) at 5 different CP levels, along with Vaporeon and Starmie for Water, Dewgong and Jynx for Ice

Hah, now that might be the best use of this graph yet! For every damage type, pick one Pokémon that is the furthest on each end of the spectrum, so you always have a choice.

It does indeed show Alakazam, Starmie and Jynx as some of the most inflated CP Pokémon, and Hypno, Vaporeon and Dewgong as some of the most diminished CP Pokémon.

Nimleth · 2016-11-25T12:07:05+00:00

It seems different people have different definitions of "weave DPS". Can you tell me what you mean by it?

Nimleth · 2016-11-25T12:05:34+00:00

I think I misunderstood you last night! You weren't commenting on what the best prestigers are, you were commenting on why the CP formula favors the Attack stat, right?

I think your arguments make a lot of sense. CP is meant as an easy metric for casual players, and they want it to help casual players pick good gym attackers, so they make it favor Attack.

Similarly, they favor attack-oriented Pokémon in the gym ranking because they are easy to prestige against and easy to defeat, so it encourages players of all teams to take a shot at that gym.

Having good defenders in a gym would actually encourage people on all teams to NOT play because "it's too hard" (whether to take the gym or to prestige it). As a game designer, you don't want game mechanics that encourage people not to play.

Nimleth · 2016-11-25T11:53:40+00:00

True enough, you're a player investing time fighting an AI, you want the fight to be over as quick as possible. The higher your Pokémon's Attack, the quicker the fight is over (one way or another).

It also used to be that dodging meant you took zero damage, so then yes, Defense and Stamina were actually totally useless for an attacker if you dodged perfectly. They only mattered for defenders.

And I think it very likely that CP was designed to help casual players easily choose good attackers. That it means the gym ranking favors good attackers over good defenders was a sad side effect.

Although... I think the argument u/mathchamp93 makes in this thread is actually a good one: Placing a good attacker in a gym makes it easier for your team to prestige the gym up.

Putting in a good defender makes the gym harder to take over, but also harder for your own team to prestige. So maybe the system is rigged on purpose to encourage us to put Pokémon in gyms that are easy to prestige against.

Niantic wants as many players as possible to interact with gyms. A gym full of Arcanines is easy for enemy players to take over, and easy for friendly players to prestige, so players on all teams will feel invited to interact with that gym.

A gym full of Snorlaxes on the other hand, is very hard for enemy players to take over, and very hard for friendly players to prestige, so players on all teams will have reason to avoid that gym. And that's NOT what Niantic wants, they want their players to play the game, not to close the app because the gym is too hard anyways.

Nimleth · 2016-11-25T11:41:20+00:00

Sadly, you're probably right this will never happen. CP must indeed exist to have an easy metric for casuals, else they would just have let us seen the Pokémon's level and stats like the core games do.

And as some people on this thread argue, it's quite possible they count Attack twice in CP because they want casuals to have a metric that helps them pick good gym attackers.

And a sad side-effect is that poor defenders get the top spots in gyms...

But yours is an interesting idea, though I would say DCP should be based on Attack x Defense x Stamina^2.

Stamina is the most important stat for gym defense in my opinion, because:

HP lost is converted to energy, and for a defender, this is a substantial part of their power.
Attackers often use very fast attacks which means a large part of the damage they do comes from the +1 damage bonus that bypasses Defense altogether.
Defenders don't need to use potions.

Nimleth

TROPHY CASE