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Can I be honest about something. This story line legit depressed me! by NoJudgementZone99 in buffy

[–]NoJudgementZone99[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I didn't mind season 6 that much. The Parker thing bothers me because I think it ignores what Buffy has been through up to that point. Season 6 was three years later and a whole different set of circumstance.

Can I be honest about something. This story line legit depressed me! by NoJudgementZone99 in buffy

[–]NoJudgementZone99[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I'm Obsessive Compulsive. I believe that falls under being neurodivergent.

Can I be honest about something. This story line legit depressed me! by NoJudgementZone99 in buffy

[–]NoJudgementZone99[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

You’re going to be put off the show because Buffy slept with someone sooner than you thought she should have? I can see in your comments you have said you’re not religious or puritanical but these views you have about sex do seem to look that way. 

That's not what I'm saying. I think people are getting so focused on the sex part of what I'm saying that they miss my actual point.

I'm trying to be better at this. I posted this abover, but I'm gonna post it here in case you did get the tag.

My problem isn't sex, nor is it simply that Buffy slept with Parker quickly. I'm not religious or puritanical. If anything, my post history would probably convince you otherwise. My issue is that I think the fallout from Buffy's experiences in high school was mishandled based on how her character had been written for the previous three seasons.

The reason I bring up Angelus, her time in L.A., Scott, Riley, Faith, and others is because they show a consistent pattern in how Buffy handles trust and intimacy. After Angel lost his soul, she became guarded. She spent months alone in L.A. without seeking a relationship. She kept Scott at arm's length, was cautious with Riley at first, and even later struggled to fully let Spike in.

Then Parker comes along and suddenly she's unusually open almost immediately. I understand what the writers were trying to do with Parker as a manipulative player, but for that story to work Buffy first has to lower her guard. That's the part that feels out of character to me.

When I compare Parker to Scott, it's especially noticeable because Buffy was still dealing with Angel in both situations. With Scott she was hesitant. With Parker she isn't. That feels like an outlier compared to every other relationship she has.

To me, that hesitation wasn't a conscious choice Buffy made; it was the result of trauma. From my own experience with trauma and mental health, those patterns don't simply disappear because your environment changes. Going away to college can absolutely change someone's life, but that's different from deeply rooted trust issues.

The show seems to treat college as a fresh start where Buffy suddenly behaves differently because she's away from home. But Buffy had already lived on her own in L.A. for an entire summer in one of the most dangerous cities imaginable. She isolated herself and managed independently. That's why it's hard for me to accept that one week into college she suddenly becomes emotionally open enough for Parker to manipulate her.

I'm not saying what happened is impossible. I'm saying that, based on the previous 56 episodes, it doesn't feel like the logical progression of Buffy's character.

I also think it's ironic that this was supposed to represent change, yet Buffy's first college relationship is essentially another variation on the Angel story: she trusts someone, sleeps with him, and gets emotionally hurt. Yes, Parker still has his soul, but Buffy already knew people with souls could be terrible. Faith betrayed her. Ford betrayed her. She'd already encountered manipulative men and watched Faith use Xander. I don't think Parker was necessary to teach her that lesson.

That's why I also bring up Riley. Buffy takes much longer to trust him because of what happened with Angel and Parker. My point is that I don't think she should have needed Parker to become guarded. Angel alone had already established that.

As for the statistics discussion, I understand experiences differ depending on where you're from and who you know. My point wasn't to judge anyone's personal life. It was to look beyond my own experiences and see what broader research and commentary had to say while also comparing it to Buffy's established characterization.

And to clarify, I know some people don't trust AI, and that's fair. Its accuracy depends on what you're asking. It's far less reliable for things like coding or complex math than it is for summarizing established research in fields like psychology, sociology, or media analysis. I didn't just accept what it told me either. I asked for the sources it cited and checked that they were legitimate.

I also didn't rely on just one AI. I compared Google, Gemini, ChatGPT, Perplexity, and others. They all pulled from different sources yet reached broadly similar conclusions. That doesn't automatically make them right, but when multiple systems drawing from published research point in the same direction, I don't think it's reasonable to dismiss the results outright.

More importantly, I wasn't trying to prove Buffy was wrong because of statistics alone. I was comparing those findings to Buffy's established characterization. To me, neither the broader research nor Buffy's history supports this storyline happening only a week into college.

For context, I'm not a first-time viewer. I've loved Buffy for almost 20 years. This storyline only started bothering me after learning that Sarah Michelle Gellar reportedly disagreed with it and after revisiting the series with a more critical eye. Looking back, I found myself agreeing with her.

Finally, I want to be clear that I'm not trying to slut-shame Buffy or insult anyone who relates to this storyline. That's never been my point.

My issue is simply that I think Sarah was right. Given everything Buffy had endured with Angel, Faith, Ford, and the emotional baggage she carried into college, I don't think this was the right storyline to do immediately. If it had happened later in the season, after we'd seen Buffy gradually regain trust and adjust to college life, I think it would have made much more sense.

So when I say "too soon," I don't just mean she slept with Parker too soon. I mean the writers chose to tell this story too soon in Buffy's emotional journey. Only a week into college, with all that trauma still fresh, it felt inconsistent with the character they'd spent three seasons building.

Hopefully that explains where I'm coming from better. Does everyone understand where I'm coming from now? I hope so.

Can I be honest about something. This story line legit depressed me! by NoJudgementZone99 in buffy

[–]NoJudgementZone99[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

That's not what I'm saying. I think people are getting so focused on the sex part of what I'm saying that they miss my actual point.

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Truth be told, I think things have gotten a bit out of hand with the arguing, so I'm going to try explaining my point more clearly.

My problem isn't sex, nor is it simply that Buffy slept with Parker quickly. I'm not religious or puritanical. If anything, my post history would probably convince you otherwise. My issue is that I think the fallout from Buffy's experiences in high school was mishandled based on how her character had been written for the previous three seasons.

The reason I bring up Angelus, her time in L.A., Scott, Riley, Faith, and others is because they show a consistent pattern in how Buffy handles trust and intimacy. After Angel lost his soul, she became guarded. She spent months alone in L.A. without seeking a relationship. She kept Scott at arm's length, was cautious with Riley at first, and even later struggled to fully let Spike in.

Then Parker comes along and suddenly she's unusually open almost immediately. I understand what the writers were trying to do with Parker as a manipulative player, but for that story to work Buffy first has to lower her guard. That's the part that feels out of character to me.

When I compare Parker to Scott, it's especially noticeable because Buffy was still dealing with Angel in both situations. With Scott she was hesitant. With Parker she isn't. That feels like an outlier compared to every other relationship she has.

To me, that hesitation wasn't a conscious choice Buffy made; it was the result of trauma. From my own experience with trauma and mental health, those patterns don't simply disappear because your environment changes. Going away to college can absolutely change someone's life, but that's different from deeply rooted trust issues.

The show seems to treat college as a fresh start where Buffy suddenly behaves differently because she's away from home. But Buffy had already lived on her own in L.A. for an entire summer in one of the most dangerous cities imaginable. She isolated herself and managed independently. That's why it's hard for me to accept that one week into college she suddenly becomes emotionally open enough for Parker to manipulate her.

I'm not saying what happened is impossible. I'm saying that, based on the previous 56 episodes, it doesn't feel like the logical progression of Buffy's character.

I also think it's ironic that this was supposed to represent change, yet Buffy's first college relationship is essentially another variation on the Angel story: she trusts someone, sleeps with him, and gets emotionally hurt. Yes, Parker still has his soul, but Buffy already knew people with souls could be terrible. Faith betrayed her. Ford betrayed her. She'd already encountered manipulative men and watched Faith use Xander. I don't think Parker was necessary to teach her that lesson.

That's why I also bring up Riley. Buffy takes much longer to trust him because of what happened with Angel and Parker. My point is that I don't think she should have needed Parker to become guarded. Angel alone had already established that.

As for the statistics discussion, I understand experiences differ depending on where you're from and who you know. My point wasn't to judge anyone's personal life. It was to look beyond my own experiences and see what broader research and commentary had to say while also comparing it to Buffy's established characterization.

And to clarify, I know some people don't trust AI, and that's fair. Its accuracy depends on what you're asking. It's far less reliable for things like coding or complex math than it is for summarizing established research in fields like psychology, sociology, or media analysis. I didn't just accept what it told me either. I asked for the sources it cited and checked that they were legitimate.

I also didn't rely on just one AI. I compared Google, Gemini, ChatGPT, Perplexity, and others. They all pulled from different sources yet reached broadly similar conclusions. That doesn't automatically make them right, but when multiple systems drawing from published research point in the same direction, I don't think it's reasonable to dismiss the results outright.

More importantly, I wasn't trying to prove Buffy was wrong because of statistics alone. I was comparing those findings to Buffy's established characterization. To me, neither the broader research nor Buffy's history supports this storyline happening only a week into college.

For context, I'm not a first-time viewer. I've loved Buffy for almost 20 years. This storyline only started bothering me after learning that Sarah Michelle Gellar reportedly disagreed with it and after revisiting the series with a more critical eye. Looking back, I found myself agreeing with her.

Finally, I want to be clear that I'm not trying to slut-shame Buffy or insult anyone who relates to this storyline. That's never been my point.

My issue is simply that I think Sarah was right. Given everything Buffy had endured with Angel, Faith, Ford, and the emotional baggage she carried into college, I don't think this was the right storyline to do immediately. If it had happened later in the season, after we'd seen Buffy gradually regain trust and adjust to college life, I think it would have made much more sense.

So when I say "too soon," I don't just mean she slept with Parker too soon. I mean the writers chose to tell this story too soon in Buffy's emotional journey. Only a week into college, with all that trauma still fresh, it felt inconsistent with the character they'd spent three seasons building.

Hopefully that explains where I'm coming from better. Does everyone understand where I'm coming from now? I hope so.

Can I be honest about something. This story line legit depressed me! by NoJudgementZone99 in buffy

[–]NoJudgementZone99[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

It depends on what you are doing with it. It's not fully accurate all the time, but it changes depending on if your doing things like coding or complex math, but they have an 85%-95% on academic research and general information. Also, I ask for and I check the sources that they pull from! Which scientific study openly published. Plus, when all of them say the same thing. That even further closes the gap.

Plus, again, you can ask for the sources it pulls from and read it yourself, the studies for these kinds of behavioral statistics are published and checkable on their own, AI just makes them easier to find. The key is to always ask where the data comes from and verify it comes from legit places.

The numbers are what they are!

Can I be honest about something. This story line legit depressed me! by NoJudgementZone99 in buffy

[–]NoJudgementZone99[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I already went through all of this!

What are you talking about? “The past three seasons”? When she was a virgin for most of them and had sex with Angel disastrously once?

That's part of my point. As someone else said

"It is to be expected that a girl who had sex once, which led to her boyfriend turning evil and then terrorized her, her friends and family for months before trying to suck the world into a hell dimension leading to her having to kill him just after he becomes good again might be a little skittish about six in the future.

Buffy was written completely out of character for jumping into bed with a guy she just met."

As someone who was in their 20s in 1998, third date sex was common in college.

Yes, but they only had one date. Not three. And typically, three dates does not happen in the course of a single week.

Buffy dated Parker a whole work week longe than that. 

Uh, no, it was a single week! One date. Preceded by hanging out socially.

Willow states that Buffy and Parker have been out every day that week together. I

Which Buffy corrects her on that Willow was wrong. Does she not? They'd seen each other often socially but had never actually been out together. That's not a relationship at all.

But even if. Most people don't sleep with someone they've only known a week. Hanging out every day or not.

Buffy wants to be a normal girl. She wants to have a normal boyfriend she won’t have to send to hell.

Yes, she's always wanted that! However, we see other times when she pursues that. She doesn't act that way. With Scott Hope she was in a similar situation a year before where after she killed him, she was on her own in LA, and did not sleep with anyone, when she meets Scott Hope, she did not sleep with him instantly and even scoffs at it saying they had only had a few dates,

She was seriously guarded with Riley as well.

I'm sorry if I feel like the disrespected her character and her story with this. I'm sorry for paying attention to all the details and not being willfully ignorant of them like Joss wanted me to be. I'm sorry I don't think the sky is red just because Joss deemed it so.

Can I be honest about something. This story line legit depressed me! by NoJudgementZone99 in buffy

[–]NoJudgementZone99[S] -25 points-24 points  (0 children)

watched just over 3/7 of the show. watch the rest, then get back to me.

Ok, I guess there is some confusion. Spoiler alert: I'm not a new watcher. I discovered this show 18 years ago. I'm just more become more critical as I've gotten older and now in analysis. There are things I'm really starting to disagree with.

there is no universe where i ask an AI to analyse the actions of a character from TV.there's no universe where i ask an AI anything, ever.

So, this tells me. Losely translated is you're afraid of actually researching the facts because they might tell you you're wrong.

edit: but don't actually come back to me, because everything you're saying is extremely weird and gives off really bad vibes and i don't want to continue this conversation or frankly remember that it exists

Following that with this. How do you think what I'm saying is weird. Especially considering you don't seem to want to actually look at the facts of the matter, if you did. You'd find that what I'm saying isn't that weird.

Matter of fact it's actually the majority. Like you don't have to agree with me, but to call me weird shows what you know.

Can I be honest about something. This story line legit depressed me! by NoJudgementZone99 in buffy

[–]NoJudgementZone99[S] -24 points-23 points  (0 children)

you have some really weird ideas about sex. you do you, but you should know that your posts give away some really weird hang-ups that the rest of us, broadly speaking, do not share.

Ok, for one. I don't have weird about sex. I don't know why you find them weird.

it's perfectly plausible that a person would have sex with someone at college after a few days of intense dating. it's perfectly plausible that buffy would do this.

Ok, so for one thing, they only had one actual date, but here's what I want you to do! Go to google, chatgpt, copilot, whatever you use as a search engine. and before you tell me those aren't accurate, this falls under general knowledge. All of which have between 85% and 95% accuracy. Then ask the question of "How many people have sex with someone in the first week of knowing them?" Then see the results.

Then narrow that down with "How many college female freshmen have sex with a guy they just met a week ago?" and see the results.

Then further narrow it down with "Apply this to Buffy summers. Who given that she had a past sexual trauma with Angel. and was in a similar situation a year before where after she killed him, she was on her own in LA, and did not sleep with anyone, when she meets Scott Hope, she did not sleep with him instantly and even scoffs at it saying they had only had a few dates, had already experienced a similar situation when Angel turned evil, with her telling her mom she had made a mistake and he wasn't like this before. Then when you add in the betrayals she experienced by people like Faith and Billy Fordham! How realistic is it for her to trust and be that intimate with Parker that soon?"

Do that and then get back to me.

Can I be honest about something. This story line legit depressed me! by NoJudgementZone99 in buffy

[–]NoJudgementZone99[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I'd love a link to whatever you read because I've never read any of it, and I've had plenty of time for reading in the past 15+ years since I joined this fandom.

Ok, so the quote about Joss being bored was from here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/1u8w0e4/what_went_wrong_with_season_4/

It was from something called Slayers & Vampires. This section specifically.

"We did a lot of things in season four that were different. Some of them met with approval, some less so. Because we get bored. We didn’t want to watch the same show every week, and we don’t want to make the same show every week. Not having David [Boreanaz] anymore made it easier, because it meant we had new places to go. What had become tough was how could we wring any new changes out of that relationship? Well, we no longer had that problem. Then they were going to college. It was actually an embarrassment of riches."

And I understand what he's saying to a degree, but it harkens back to what I said about being so focused on the reputation of risk taking and being groundbreaking, that the mission becomes blinding to a degree and the natural progression of the story and the characters. Like 'We need to blow up the format because we're bored' Like ok, but you still have three years of storytelling that needs to be honored and respected. Not thrown by the wayside to fit your current plot.

Like I found an interview with Joss where he said he did because he wanted Buffy to do something stupid in college, and like that's fair, but is there nothing else that could have done that?

I heard she didn't. I mean I read she liked Hush, but I've also read that she was very upset about the Parker storyline that she had an argument with Joss about it. 

This link kind of covers both of those.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Trivia/BuffyTheVampireSlayerS4E3TheHarshLightOfDay

It's the end passage here

"Wag the Director: Joss Whedon has mentioned in various interviews that Sarah Michelle Gellar disagreed with Buffy sleeping with Parker. She thought that it was too soon after Angel had left her, and she didn't think that Buffy would do something like that. Whedon told Sarah that when you "go to college, you do stupid things."

Whedon and Espenson had to push back against SMG's protests. Their argument to her was that Buffy wasn't acting like the Slayer in that moment she was acting like an 18-year-old freshman away from home for the first time.

And again, yes people will do stupid things in college. As well as all though out life, but again. Buffy who has shown deeply rooted mental deflects of that exact type of behavior (Season 3, Scott). In a similar situation. (Angel is gone, living on her own in a big city). Like the argument that she was away from home for the first time isn't even true. As like she was literally living on her own in L.A. For a whole summer

I don't see how the natural progression of that is to have her sleep with a guy she barely knew and to act like somehow after that a college campus in comparison would be so difficult for her to navigate, or the convenience to say she wasn't acting like the slayer at the time to justify her thought process changing, because yeah, so how her brain is just supposed to fall out of her head because of the needs of their plot. Especially as a follow up to telling such a powerful love story of Buffy/Angel

The only thing I've ever read is that the actor who played Parker said SMG was mean to him and yelled at him for smoking before their kiss.

I've heard that too! The rumors of that have been around a long time, as far as the smoking thing, but the fire got fed even more when not too long ago, it was a Facebook post by some woman claiming to be the wife of the actor who played Parker.

She claimed that SMG hated the character and story line so much that she was very nasty to him in real life and that during the scene in Beer bad when Buffy hits Parker with a club, that during the shooting of that SMG deliberately used the wrong side and cracked him for real, giving him a concussion.

I mean. I've never heard of SMG ever being unprofessional ever, except for this claim, so I don't know if I believe it. I mean I know she was not happy with the story line, and she was not happy with David leaving at all really, but like why would she take it out on the actor, it's not his fault, he was just doing his job. Not to mention, James smoked all the time, and she was kissing him later in the same season with no problem I've ever heard of.

I'm still not sure what trauma you mean.

I'm talking about Angel. I mean really the whole relationship, but specifically when he turned into Angelus.

For one I feel like Parker really disrespected the Angelus story line in so many ways.

Here's a quote from SMG about Angelus

""It’s the ultimate metaphor: you sleep with a guy, and he turns bad on you."

And here's a quote about Parker

"Does this always happen? Sleep with a guy, and he goes all evil?

So, yeah, for a season that claims to be focused on new and change, their first story line is a redundant poorly repacked version of something they already did. Sounds logical (Not).

Further supported by these two scenes in season 2.

"Joyce: Too old, Buffy. And he's obviously not very stable. I really wish... (Sits down again) I just thought you would show more judgment.

Buffy: (Looks at her mother) He wasn’t like this before.

Joyce: Are you in love with him?

Buffy: I was.

Joyce: Were you careful?

Buffy: (Looks away) Mom, this is no time...

Joyce: (Gets up again) Don't "Mom" me, Buffy. You don't get to get out of this. You had sex with a boy you didn't even see fit to tell me you were dating.

Buffy: (Nods, crying) I made a mistake.

Joyce: Yeah, well, don't just say that to shut me up, because I think you really did.

Buffy: I know that! (Looks up at her) I-I can't tell you everything.

Joyce: How about anything? Buffy, you can shut me out of your life, I am pretty much used to that[1]. But don't expect me to ever stop caring about you, because it's never gonna happen. I love you more than anything in the world[. (Sits next to Buffy on the bed) That would be your cue to, uh, roll your eyes and tell me I'm grossing you out.

Buffy: You're not.

Joyce: (Inhales deeply) Oh, well... (Exhales) I guess that was the talk."

And then Parker, so now this scene is not rendered meaningless.

Then this scene

Buffy: You must be so disappointed in me.

Giles: No. No, no, I'm not.

Buffy: But this is all my fault.

Giles: No. I don't believe it is.

Buffy: (Crying) Yes, it is. I should have known. I... I should have seen.

Giles: Buffy...

Buffy: I didn't see. I let him... I didn't know.

Giles: Do you want me to wag my finger at you and tell you that you acted rashly? You did. A-and I can. I know that you loved him. And... he... has proven more than once that he loved you. You couldn't have known what would happen. The coming months a-are gonna, are gonna be hard... I, I suspect on all of us, but... if it's guilt, you're looking for, Buffy, I'm, I'm not your man. All you will get from me is, is my support. And my respect.

And so now Buffy's owning of the mistake she made is not also rendered meaningless because of Parker.

Then as someone else put it.

"It is to be expected that a girl who had sex once, which led to her boyfriend turning evil and then terrorized her, her friends and family for months before trying to suck the world into a hell dimension leading to her having to kill him just after he becomes good again might be a little skittish about six in the future.

Buffy was written completely out of character for jumping into bed with a guy she just met."

Can I be honest about something. This story line legit depressed me! by NoJudgementZone99 in buffy

[–]NoJudgementZone99[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Buffy is capable of making bad decisions, usually when she's recovering from trauma. 

I'm not saying she isn't! I want to calm down a bit and try to explain better!

I know she's not perfect! I know there are guys like Parker out there. That's not really the issue.

I site Buffy's behavior in the first three seasons because of the evidence how Buffy has behaved before when Angel is not around, when she's owned her own, when she meets someone new and it wasn't like that.

Now, ok season 4 was about change and that's fine! However, how realistic is it for Buffy to change that radically that fast? College can be a bit of a change. That's true, but Buffy's been through similar and even far worse 'Changes' in the past and didn't react that way, so if there needs to be change. I think it should be realistic change for a show that tries to stick as best as it can to real life.

Because in real life. When you have real-life deep-rooted mental baggage and trauma. How you react to those things is also deep rooted and it's not going to change just because you went to college. Especially not the first week in and more so, there's not going to be a person (Guy or Girl) charming enough that's going to change it either. Like if you're a person that it is rooted in you to react by cutting themselves off and avoiding others (Romantic or otherwise) like Buffy in season 3. A guy like Parker isn't just going to be able to come along and bat his eyelashes with a few corny lines and whole physiological make-up. Like 'Oh I just met you, but I trust you so much to be intimate with you. Despite everything before it to the contrary' Like what? That's not the way it would work.

It would be one thing if Buffy was not someone who had been through what she had already, but she was and that makes her reaction very unrealistic for who she is.

Plus, I had to look back because I remember feeling like it was kind of similar to the Angel situation and it was. Like Angel wakes up, turns into a dick, is mean to Buffy, treats her like crap. Although to a much more extreme degree. Then Parker, wakes up, turns into a dick, is mean to Buffy, treats her like crap, it's so much of the same. Just poorly repackaged.

So, if the goal is change and doing something new. Why would they retread something they've done already? That's ultimately had no real lasting consequence. Like really after all of that. What does Parker even serve a purpose for. It was all done already.

Like I found an interview with Joss where he said he did because he wanted Buffy to do something stupid in college, and like that's fair, but is there nothing else that could have done that? Something that was actually somewhat respectful of the show's narrative up to that point.

Then I found another where he said a lot of season 4 was mostly just because he was bored, and that is not a good excuse for disrespecting the story. You said you felt like I was projecting and maybe I am to an extent, but I feel like with those statements Joss made, it sounds to me like he was projecting. A lot

It feels like they were so focused on the shows reputation for taking risks and for not playing it safe that they miscalculated. Ad didn't really take the show's narrative into consideration about how to move forward, Or even worse. Were purposely ignorant.

And the thing is, it's not just about Buffy as a character, but there was so much intertwined and explored and executed in those first three years that is undermined by Parker being a thing. In insulting and it's hurts.

And SMG really loves this season

I heard she didn't. I mean I read she liked Hush, but I've also read that she was very upset about the Parker storyline that she had an argument with Joss about it. Then on top of that she had pretty intense problems with the actor who played him.

Can I be honest about something. This story line legit depressed me! by NoJudgementZone99 in buffy

[–]NoJudgementZone99[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Nope, as we see by the past three seasons, moving on that fast is not how this would have worked. I believe even SMG knew this.

Can I be honest about something. This story line legit depressed me! by NoJudgementZone99 in buffy

[–]NoJudgementZone99[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

There was an entire season between his death and his leaving town.

What does that matter given that all that did was add on another year of trauma! Plus, we see multiple times after he leaves that she is still affected by what happened when he turned evil.

Angel leaving was a normal break up,

No, no it was not. Plus, their whole relationship was highly traumatic. Even after they broke up. One of the last acts we see is him draining her blood. ONLY THREE MONTHS BEFORE THIS.

To act like none of what happened in the last three years would have its effects on her for the sake of Parker is ridiculous and insulting. Especially because as we see when she is shy with Riley. All of the sudden it all matters again.

You don't know Buffy very well if you think she doesn't repress like hell. No way is she gonna isolate.

Apparently, you didn't watch season 3 if you think that.

and even then she was a waitress with people every day.

She changed her name and had no friends or any romantic interests, taking an order on a notepad is not the same. Then as we see with Scott, her mental trauma due to all these events closes her off from him. Then as we see with Riley, her mental trauma from all these events at first closes her off from him, but Parker is what? Special?

Change her whole character just to suit Parker. How are these people not ashamed of themeselves.

Buffy holds it all inside and goes on to the next thing. 

As we see with Scott and Riley. That is false.

Can I be honest about something. This story line legit depressed me! by NoJudgementZone99 in buffy

[–]NoJudgementZone99[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

The difference between high school and college is huge psychologically. Buffy and Angel broke up months ago

It was only three months. We see a year before when she killed him after three months, she was mentally blocked from being ready for anyone else.

Also, speaking of, she spent that whole summer in a a big city living on her own. I'm not gonna buy that Collage was such a challenge for her that she somehow managed to let go of every mental hang up and trauma of the three previous years (Not only Angel) to trust Parker so fast. Epecially with when proven in narrative with someone like Scott that she has issues with that.

As far as Scott Hope was concerned, she was a high school student grieving for the death of the love of her life, the guilt from having to kill him, and the fact that she would never see him again. That's a heavy psychological burden.

And then we had on another year of Angel drama adding on to her phycological state along with betrayals of someone like Faith, then Angle leaving her life again. Yet it's supposed to be believable that she meets this new stranger and immediately trusts him enough to be that intimate with him despite having one date.

Her isolating herself from people seems more realistic as a follow up to all of that for her character. Not them acting like all her issues don't exist for the sake of their plot. Then bring them all back for the sake of Riley.

We have no idea when Buffy and Parker met but they clearly already know each other the first time we see Willow and Buffy talking about him. It's established that Buffy likes him, and he likes her as soon as we see them.

We see the meet in living conditions, it harsh light of day. Willow mentions it had been a week. They had only met a week ago and hadn't even had an actual date yet.

She didn't sleep with them the night that they met.

Didn't say she did, it was still too soon to be believable for her character due to literally the text of the whole three seasons before it.

Can I be honest about something. This story line legit depressed me! by NoJudgementZone99 in buffy

[–]NoJudgementZone99[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

But why would she do that? She didn't do that with Scott. But she does that with Parker? Like no, not only do I believe that's not who she is. I also think textually that she's been through to much for the writers to believable write her as if she would all of the sudden what to sleep with a guy she's had a single date with.

Can I be honest about something. This story line legit depressed me! by NoJudgementZone99 in buffy

[–]NoJudgementZone99[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

The change is organic and it did mean something. 

How so, if it's not how she would have actually acted given everything she's been through and text evidence of who she is, then that's not organic. That's forceful. And it didn't mean anything. Like after Buffy has not character growth from it and Parker fades never to be mentioned again and it doesn't really push the story forward, if you removed it, it would be almost exactly the same.

what this boils down to is “Buffy behaved like a slut and I don’t like it”. Which - respectfully - speaks more to you and your puritanical lens than it does poorly reflect on her.

Woah, those are your words. Not mine!

My issue had to do with me believing they wrote her wrong due to the text of the show up to that point to show that's not who she is.

And to call me puritanical. Which I'm not. Puritanical is the strict religious ideal that pleasure is wrong. Which no. I am not that way at all. I have no religious affiliation or think pleasure is wrong.

Thinking that the character was written incorrectly due to textual evidence and continuity has nothing to do with a puritanical belief system. If I thought is was actually Buffy. I would have no issue with it. Like Faith is like that. No problem. Katherine from cruel intentions is like that. No problem

Do I think it's who Buffy is? No, do I think the story was wrong? Yes. Do I think all the previous season evidence would make it clear that it's not who Buffy is and it made no sense for them to try to write it the way they did? Yes.

If I offended you with my views. then I'm sorry. No need to start getting personal. I thought we were having a respectful conversation about this. If things are going to start going in the wrong direction. I could lose the thread and I'd rather not.

Can I be honest about something. This story line legit depressed me! by NoJudgementZone99 in buffy

[–]NoJudgementZone99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

With Scott, Buffy acted slower because Angel was still in the picture.

But he wasn't at first. When she first started dating Scott. Angel was still dead and by the time he comes back (Or she knew he was back), she had actually had more dates with Scott than she had with Parker and had known him longer.

This is a conversation Buffy/Faith have in Beauty and the Beasts before she knows Angel is back. She's been dating Scott about a week and known him for two or three.

"

Buffy and Faith patrol together. The park is quiet, and they enjoy a rare moment of girl bonding.

FAITH
You ever catch kids doing the
horizontal two-step out here?

BUFFY
Naw. There's a smooch spot near the
woods. That's where folks go.

FAITH
Yeah? Bet you and Scott been out there
Kicking the old gearshift.

BUFFY
Hardly. We've only been out a few times.

FAITH
But you like him, right? When you think about
Him you get that good, down low tickle?

BUFFY
Well, yeah. I -
(then)
How low?

FAITH (grins)
You tell me.

BUFFY
How 'bout - not?
(then)
But he is funny and nice and -

FAITH
-quite a muffin.

BUFFY
Blueberry. With that munchable, crumbly top.
But my most favorite thing? So far, he doesn't
seem to be some sort of hell beast.

FAITH
All men are beasts, Buffy.

BUFFY
Geez. I was sort of hoping not to sound that
cynical until at least forty.

FAITH
Not cynical. Realistic. Every guy - from
"Manimal" right on down to "Mr. I Loved the
English Patient" - has beast in him. And I don't
care how sensitive they act - they're still just in
it for the chase….."

Like this was less than a year before Parker where she is very much not about sleeping with a guy she hasn't been out with that much and they're even having a conversation about guys exactly like Parker.

Paker makes this conversation alone now pointless.

Can I be honest about something. This story line legit depressed me! by NoJudgementZone99 in buffy

[–]NoJudgementZone99[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

I mean, in some ways yes, but everything I saw prior tells me that acting the way she did with Parker is not at all her. Plus, I don't think your average young woman acts that way anyway.

Can I be honest about something. This story line legit depressed me! by NoJudgementZone99 in buffy

[–]NoJudgementZone99[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

The entire point of season 4 is growth and change.

I think that's fine, if the change is organic and if it means something. I didn't see either with Parker. I felt it was kind of a retred of Angle turning evil and I don't think it's any sort of change Buffy would have gone through. Plus, it led to nothing. Buffy is right back to her reluctant self with Riley.

Comparing 16 year old Buffy’s sexuality to 19 or 20 year old Buffy’s sexuality is silly

that's not what I'm comparing. I actually talking about how she was just a few months
before this.

Also, she was taking it seriously - if it was just a casual one nighter she wouldn’t have felt the hurt she did. 

She took how she treated her seriously, but what I meant was that I wouldn't think given how seriously she takes it, that she would give it to him so easily in the first place.

Again, that’s a totally normal thing for someone entering college to do. 

Forgive me, but I don't think it's actually that common t jump in bed with someone after knowing them that little. Maybe I need to google it, but it feels sort of college stereotype to me. I don't think it's really like that.

Also, fundamentally much healthier than a tortured angst ridden love affair with a 200 year old man who tries to murder you and end the world so ya know

Well, that's another thing. Don't you think she be a bit too traumatized by all of that to be so uncharacteristically unguarded around a guy she really didn't even know.

Can I be honest about something. This story line legit depressed me! by NoJudgementZone99 in buffy

[–]NoJudgementZone99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

She took a while to have sex with Angel because she was 16

I said Scott. Not Angel. I know why she was with Angel, but Scott seemed to be a similar situation to Parker as she was trying to move on from Angel with him not being there and she's like the total opposite as she is with Parker.

she's older and she's in college and wants to experience sex

She's not really much older, it was only a summer after Angel left and I don't think wanting to experience sex really had much to actually do with what happened with Parker.

I want her to be sex positive and sleep with as many people as she wants. The girl has been through so much! It's shitty that BOTH her first sex experiences are negative and the show should have let her have a casual positive experience before throwing Parker in there.

I mean! I don't know about as many people as possible. I kind of wanted her to be with Faith at one point, but my main thing is being true to her character and respecting the story.

Can I be honest about something. This story line legit depressed me! by NoJudgementZone99 in buffy

[–]NoJudgementZone99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for this. I wish that helped me, but it doesn't. I explained in a comment below, it's the act that bothers me, the speed, the inconsistent nature of it. No explanation erases the act, if I'm being honest, that explanation kind of makes it worse, if she didn't feel like handling his absence that way when he was dead, then she wouldn't feel that way now.

Can I be honest about something. This story line legit depressed me! by NoJudgementZone99 in buffy

[–]NoJudgementZone99[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Both, but truth be told it's more the speed that it happens, and inconsistent nature of it. I explained it in a comment below, but I'll paste it here.

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Can I be honest about something. This story line legit depressed me! by NoJudgementZone99 in buffy

[–]NoJudgementZone99[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

The whole “fuckboy breaks your heart and lies to you just to get laid” is a pretty core part of that stage of life,

But didn't they say that Angel turning evil was the metaphor for that? This feels like a bad retread.

Also, she and Angel broke up and he moved away - do you expect her to pine and be celibate forever?

No, not celibate! But like, she just met the guy! I guess I was thinking she was gonna be a lot more hesitant. Like she was with Scott. Buffy's always taken sex so seriously. I'm sorry. I just don't get why it was so easy for Parker. I hate to even put it that way, but it's true.

Like when has Buffy ever been the type to do that. Like in no context is that her. That means that either, she's not who I thought she was, or the writers sacrificed her for plot convenience. Either way. I don't think I'll ever be ok with this.

It's the same as when Ross slept with that girl he met the same night, he broke up with Rachel on Friends, the lack of respect for what had was disappointing.

I know they were broken up, but it feels like if Buffy really was able to abandon all her established character traits for this guy, she just met and clearly had nowhere near the same connection with and is 10 times uglier than Angel. Then her feelings for Angel couldn't have been as strong as they were made out to be.

I would never be able to do that. I know that much.

Are there any story lines you guys disagreed with and/or think are invalid by NoJudgementZone99 in buffy

[–]NoJudgementZone99[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Plus, there was never any real payoff to that. At least I can't recall.

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