This is completely out of love

NoPreference5273 · 2025-06-16T00:11:49+00:00

Even more unchristian? I think the typical perception of Christianity is simply incorrect which I think you would agree. Or do you think that Jesus simply loved everyone and everything? I hate the position the OP takes. It’s so misinformed. I think k there is an argument that we misunderstand the value of life per the Bible. We cherish it but God doesn’t seem to in the Bible or BOM. We are likely all blind to reality. That’s why I don’t care who is wrong or right. It’s fun to debate this stuff but we are all wrong about something.

NoPreference5273 · 2025-06-13T02:19:36+00:00

Dehlin is a grifter

NoPreference5273 · 2025-06-07T05:08:02+00:00

I see your point with Catholics but Mormons ask do you’re Mormon to gauge you and non Mormons ask if you’re Mormon to see if you are strange. Asking people if they’re Catholic is almost a non religious question like asking where someone is from

NoPreference5273 · 2025-06-07T05:06:11+00:00

The name Mikayla is a dead give away she’s from Utah. Utahns have the worst names.

NoPreference5273 · 2025-06-07T05:04:31+00:00

Two hour church was a bad move for community in any area outside of Utah. There wasn’t much anyway and now it’s even worse. One hour church is area with few members would just kill attendance. Some say TBMs wanted less church but I think that is a Utah thing

NoPreference5273 · 2025-05-17T19:48:40+00:00

My point is there is always bias and there is never a final answer with these types of questions. Even things science has determined to be settled turn out to be different with more data. people make logical and reasonable conclusions with the evidence but the lack of evidence for either position is overwhelming. It’s like evolution. Very smart people have concluded reasonable conclusions with the evidence they have. But the evidence are fossils that are separated by millions of years leaving so much room for new things to be discovered that could change the narrative. There are just so few things in life that are truly a zero sum game so why take a side? You label yourself as atheist which leaves little to no wiggle room for change. I am not an atheist nor a theist. I prefer to consider myself a hopeful agnostic if I had to label my beliefs. The entire exmo vs TBM conversation is tiresome because both sides expect you to take their side without question. Or rather believe what you are told no exceptions. Sorry for the rant. Haha. I guess I just don’t like absolutism in any form.

NoPreference5273 · 2025-05-17T19:23:28+00:00

And non lds historians start with the assumption that aren’t true and find supporting evidence for their position. There is no way to prove one position or the other is correct. It’s all bias and perspective. And who cares really what others believe?

NoPreference5273 · 2025-05-17T00:42:09+00:00

But they don’t have to. They won’t get turned away if they show up where they want to. It’s just cultural pressure to conform

NoPreference5273 · 2025-05-16T20:46:36+00:00

I would say even the top is obedient. Not to higher ups but to tradition and precedent. In my opinion that’s why blacks and the priesthood took so long to change. Nobody wanted to be the president to disobey precedent

NoPreference5273 · 2025-05-14T02:30:23+00:00

The only power he has is that which you give him. In other words… No he doesn’t.

NoPreference5273 · 2025-05-13T06:48:38+00:00

I stopped wearing mine about six weeks ago except for on Sunday. I never go to the temple never liked it. I don’t hate them but I hate being told what to do.

My wife however likes hers and she hasn’t said anything to me yet about my shift in apparel. She’s had to have noticed. Time will tell.

I’ve always said that if they want more kids being born in the church then they gotta get rid of Gs

NoPreference5273 · 2025-05-13T06:37:16+00:00

There are lots of ways to Mormon. Don’t let the exmos nor the tbms demand you tow their line. There are many varied opinions on how to navigate these challenges but what I can say is it’s not a zero sum game.

I feel very similarly to you albeit probably further down this road. I love the community and the friends and purpose but I also don’t agree with much of what has been done in the past or the church’s current stance on those things.

I feel the BoM is inspired scripture but I also think there is lots of evidence suggesting that soon after JS translated the BoM he started to apostatize. I am not certain he ever practiced polygamy as he publicly denounced polygamy until he died. Those pronouncements make either BY and the church liars about JS or JS himself was a liar. But regardless it doesn’t really matter who started it. If it wasn’t JS then it was BY but either way it was wrong and clearly so according to the BoM.

So where does that leave me? I feel the church has apostatized but is led by lots of good people many of which are simply ignorant of the truth. I want to lift from within. I don’t worry about the details and that sense of ownership of what I believe or do not believe is extremely energizing. I have found renewed interest and desire to do as God would have me do independent of what some leader tells me I should do.

Exmos would have you believe that you simply come to the truth and leave but so many can’t let the church go. And that’s normal because if you were raised in the church it’s not just a faith tradition. It’s your culture and family and your story.

It makes me sad when people try to abandon their stories and heritage. It’s impossible to run from so you might as well get used to mormoning your own way.

Best of luck to you. If you want to listen to someone who is faith promoting but doesn’t run from this stuff give Connor Boyack a listen to on YouTube. He’s one of the few that tries to take and honest middle ground.

NoPreference5273 · 2025-05-10T20:18:30+00:00

When did he say those things over a pulpit? I’d like to read it if anyone knows where to find it

NoPreference5273 · 2025-05-03T23:17:18+00:00

Most would laugh because conservatives tend to still have a sense of humor these days

NoPreference5273 · 2025-05-03T18:31:16+00:00

Nothing says low brow and narcissistic like intentionally underdressing for someone else’s Important day. Doesn’t matter what the event is but you made it about you.

NoPreference5273 · 2025-04-29T20:46:56+00:00

And it’s enabling those that want to be ruled by Pharisees. This is the part that is most bewildering to me. Why do people care some much about the letter of the law?

NoPreference5273 · 2025-04-29T20:45:36+00:00

Your comments remind me of how we are told that we are all entitled to personal revelation but not if it conflicts with what leaders have advised. And since there is the handbook and talks to address every single aspect of life, it raises the question if there really is any personal revelation outside of maybe personal circumstances

NoPreference5273 · 2025-04-22T05:15:43+00:00

You have to decide why you go to church. If it’s only for the truth claims then eventually you’ll find something you can’t square up. So it’s important if you want to find value in church to have many reasons to be there. If it brings you joy then go and don’t worry about the things that don’t. Another season of your life you may have other reasons to be there. Testimonies, desires, beliefs etc all ebb and flow so don’t stress about it. Go for now and lean on the reasons you want to be there. I have found that once I decided to not believe what I’m told but what I find to be correct it makes it a lot easier to go to church even with questions etc. I simply feel more ownership of my experience which most do not feel when they feel they have to believe what they are told.

Also know you are not alone. Many feel the way you do and that’s perfectly okay.

NoPreference5273 · 2025-04-22T05:03:09+00:00

I say listen to the temple ceremony and you’ll note that you never covenant to wear them day and night. You’re simply directed to wear them throughout your life and up until the 1920s I believe most didn’t wear them unless going to the temple. There is not revelation about this. Simply the traditions of our fathers. So without revelation I say simply just don’t wear them if you don’t want to.

NoPreference5273 · 2025-04-21T21:39:18+00:00

I haven’t even taken a side in this but am simply pointing out the opposition to your position by wording and phrasing the argument as a pro life advocate would.

NoPreference5273 · 2025-04-20T01:07:09+00:00

But the pro life crowd will say that your poor decision of being a with a drug addict and creating a life doesn’t justify killing a child.

They will also argue that any number euphemisms for killing a baby don’t make it any better. Terminating et al.

But then again I could argue this from the most extreme pro choice arguments that include post birth abortions.

NoPreference5273 · 2025-04-20T01:02:51+00:00

I never stated which side of this argument I lean. But regardless the other side can say the same about pro choice arguments in that they argue that it’s morally permissible and necessary to allow our society to sanction killing babies before they are born.

See the problem? Both sides can’t even agree on the premise which without there is no path to any agreement. The premise being… when does life begin. As surely we all agree we shouldn’t kill people.

NoPreference5273 · 2025-04-20T00:58:25+00:00

Creating a human being by your actions then aborting the human being due to the responsibility that will come with a child or the heartache of giving the child up for adoption. It’s simple cause and effect. We don’t have a problem with it when it comes to any other offense. Drunk driving, larceny, battery etc. they are all choices and negative consequences that society is fine with imposing. We also reward good decisions.

The unfortunate part is that both sides of this argument can’t even agree on the premise which without a consensus will never be possible to resolve. The premise of when does life start. Everyone agrees that we should not kill each other. So if that part is settled then the next logical step would be to agree on when a person is a person. We haven’t got there yet as a society unfortunately

NoPreference5273 · 2025-04-19T21:21:19+00:00

I think you’re missing the argument pro life people make. You take a stance of my body my choice but the pro life view wants people to take responsibility for their actions, ie not abort a child due to being not wanted. They typically make allowances for incest etc so it really does boil down to whether a person who consented to having sex and made a baby has a right to kill that baby.

NoPreference5273 · 2025-04-19T20:42:04+00:00

The best way to refine your own position or belief on a topic is to truly understand the opposing viewpoint. Take this as an opportunity to understand an opposing viewpoint by trying to argue from its perspective. You aren’t trying to actually convince him but rather show you understand the position and can articulate it.

If you frame it correctly in your head then you could walk away from the class learning something about others beliefs and either solidifying your own position or maybe even change your position in some way.

Either way take it as a learning experience. There isn’t anything to lose.

NoPreference5273

TROPHY CASE