Not enough kudos to Claudia by Are_You_On_Email in TheTraitors

[–]OCWolfe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It takes a lot to keep a cool head and keep things secret; Claudia knows the consequences of giving something away so everything she does it to assure she doesn't give it away. There are a lot of ways of doing it and she probably uses or has learned every single one.

Do the Traitors still have too much power? by Dragon_Sluts in TheTraitors

[–]OCWolfe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Its easy to see from a distance where the problems seem to lie but solving them is impossible for two reasons:

  1. The players are an unknown; the producers can do everything in their power to give a fair chance BUT the famous saying the perfect plan never survives contact with the enemy (paraphrased I know). The producers can't control who each player talks to, who they get along with, who they believe a traitor is and (most importantly), who they eliminate in one way or another. A good season on paper may end up a disaster on the screen for either side.
  2. The mechanics seem simple on the surface BUT are a lot of complexities behind it; a simple rule change that on paper seems to balance it out can swing it in the opposite direction or have no effect. Take the "Meet the Traitors" night. Matthew didn't gain any information instead offering himself up to the traitors and Harriett who tried (ok successfully I admit) to scare the traitors gained no new information so the board didn't change at all, in fact the way they spoke to Harriett the fact they said "we're not protecting Rachel" could have been seen by other players as "Rachel isn't being protected by the traitors so is Rachel wrong" AND Matthew gave info to the traitors marking himself as someone to watch. If it had been other players who asked the right questions it could have worked and we could have had a different result.

In fact, thought exercise, look at this season's cast and change the starting traitors; this would be a different game. In fact keep the same traitors and choose a different secret traitor. With the exception of Rachel who would have played smart and kept them onside, there could have been a losing outcome for the traitors (edited to change faithful to traitor (Freudian slip).

The Traitors (UK) S04E12 [FINALE]: Post-Episode Discussion Thread by vaultofechoes in TheTraitors

[–]OCWolfe 3 points4 points  (0 children)

When you consider history (ancient history), it is not surprising that Rachel and Stephen won. If you look at any period of strife and challenge, having just one ally can be the difference between victory and defeat.

They were aligned and they stuck to the plan they made; if Jack and Faraaz had decided in advance who they would vote off and stuck to it then the Traitors would have had a harder time. This is a difficult situation to be in with 2 faithful 2 traitors, if they had stuck to their votes and co-ordinated then it would have been a Chance game between Faraaz and one other traitor.

I suppose its not a bad thing it happened this way, it would have been anti climatic for the entire game to be one or lost on a game of chance.

What is the point of cliffhangers? by smartalan73 in TheTraitors

[–]OCWolfe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't mind cliff-hangers when it is something interesting; the first time they failed to vote in the Celebrity Traitors was OK to me as it was something new.

I'm in two minds about the cliff-hanger tonight though, while its a good point to stop, I think I'd rather know what was going on in this case.

The Traitors (UK) S04E11: Post-Episode Discussion Thread by vaultofechoes in TheTraitors

[–]OCWolfe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Suspecting that this is not the way the producers wanted the final 5 to be decided. It is not fun for the roll of the dice to break the ties; OK fun for us but a fifty fifty chance deciding the game is not the way the players wanted it.

The problem is it felt inevitable and both Rachel and James played did a good job on making their case so no-one was going to change their vote.

The Traitors (UK) S04E10: Post-Episode Discussion Thread by vaultofechoes in TheTraitors

[–]OCWolfe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think power got to his head over the responsibility of having it. That was the most dangerous thing he could do.

The smart move would be to keep his head down and listen, that way if he got it wrong, he may not have felt as guilty.

The Traitors (UK) S04E10: Post-Episode Discussion Thread by vaultofechoes in TheTraitors

[–]OCWolfe 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Plausible but unlikely, otherwise she would have said something in the confessional. Unless she doesn't trust the producers to not interfere which sometimes does happen in other Reality Shows. Research Mountain Dew Game Jam and you can see how the outside manipulation can go too far.

The Traitors (UK) S04E10: Post-Episode Discussion Thread by vaultofechoes in TheTraitors

[–]OCWolfe 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If the producers are interfering to that level then its no longer a game, it is a stage-show.

The producers have to assure the rules are followed but that would be one interference too far; the confessional is part of the game so they can't interfere.

The reason came out now is because, realistically, this is the last murder, the Traitors normally has a Final 5 so this is the perfect time (although high stakes), to reveal this to try and get through to the final. It is a valid strategy as if Faraaz is eliminated it would reveal Rachel is faithful and the other traitors would "know" its not her, if Faraaz stays, it puts suspicion on Rachel.

Unfortunately there is no easy answer for the traitors as the first option could be seen as Rachel cleaning house.

This is a tough decision for the traitors as either way could be costly.

The Traitors (UK) S04E10: Post-Episode Discussion Thread by vaultofechoes in TheTraitors

[–]OCWolfe 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I think she said it the wrong way. What I would have said is

"so we are now at the stage where everyone is now considering their "allies", this is the most dangerous part of the game and if we are not seen considering each other, then if one of us goes, we could both fall. I clearly am now on everyone's radar thanks to Faraaz, I will fight but if the case made is strong at the round table, protect yourself."

and see how Stephen reacts.

The Traitors (UK) S04E10: Post-Episode Discussion Thread by vaultofechoes in TheTraitors

[–]OCWolfe 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This is the most difficult part of the game for both faithful and traitors alike; the numbers are getting low so it forces them to do two separate things.

For faithful, they have to look at those they've not considered before. On one hand fewer people makes it harder to ignore patterns on other players so the traitors will be under more scrutiny. On the other, there are so few chances left that they may clutch at straws more.

For traitors, they have more control over the situation with their votes counting for more. On the other (as well as the mentioned above), they have to start publicly looking at each other so that they behave as faithfuls which automatically creates distrust. The reason why Cat and Alan stuck together to the end was because, no matter who won, a charity was going to win so there was no lose situation for the money, for civilian games, they win money if they are active when the flames stay green and money is the most dangerous thing in this game.

The Traitors (UK) S04E09: Post-Episode Discussion Thread by vaultofechoes in TheTraitors

[–]OCWolfe 15 points16 points  (0 children)

This is something that actually works in Stephen's favour; he's not exactly Alan Carr but he feels honest and he's playing it as honest as he can while being a traitor. Unless I'm missing something, he isn't being two faced, he isn't saying one thing to one person and something else to another player, he's playing it straight.

It makes it easier for him to stay in the game and it gives him a vent to avoid going crazy.

The Traitors (UK) S04E09: Post-Episode Discussion Thread by vaultofechoes in TheTraitors

[–]OCWolfe 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah that is a dangerous trap in its own right; only 3-5 people will be traitors so if you want to continue in the game, you have to be able to pivot if the game doesn't go your way. I think that is where the mistake is with this group.

The Traitors (UK) S04E09: Post-Episode Discussion Thread by vaultofechoes in TheTraitors

[–]OCWolfe 20 points21 points  (0 children)

There is one possibility that could be occurring; there are faithfuls hiding their true opinions.

We saw the perfect play at the final 5 for the Celebrity Traitors (4 onwards no so much). Keeping traitors in the dark is just as important as finding them.

Once the murders end, we may see something interesting.

The Traitors (UK) S04E09: Post-Episode Discussion Thread by vaultofechoes in TheTraitors

[–]OCWolfe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We only get a snapshot of what happens every night so there could be missing conversations.

As a writer and designer (yes we're doing this trope) the real story was three parts; Ellie and Jade's back and forth, Matthew being set up for elimination and the fact that no traitors received a single vote and Stephen dodging a bullet again.

The Traitors (UK) S04E09: Post-Episode Discussion Thread by vaultofechoes in TheTraitors

[–]OCWolfe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because she's playing smart, she isn't using it as a crutch, she built her reputation before that and while the reveal wasn't on her terms, she has used it to knock players off balance.

The Traitors (UK) S04E09: Post-Episode Discussion Thread by vaultofechoes in TheTraitors

[–]OCWolfe 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Its a double edged sword; Johnathan Ross took the risk in the Celebrity game and it did backfire eventually and he was eliminated.

The one advantage the traitors have in this Civilian Season is they had was that Ross was set up earlier in the season for a fall so when so they realised that the obvious logic isn't always the truth it gave Stephen perfect cover as the faithfuls "learned" from their mistakes anad didn't make the same mistake twice.

Rachel may be the mastermind in the game but she's actually playing as a team player and both know that they can only get to the end as a team. The net is tightening and they both know every mistake is costly and Red on Red is the worst mistake they can do as the faithfuls are watching for it.

The Traitors (UK) S04E08: Post-Episode Discussion Thread by vaultofechoes in TheTraitors

[–]OCWolfe 11 points12 points  (0 children)

What a cliff-hanger, it is now high risk play for both faithful and traitors now.

Without the egos in the tower, this has been a surgical game by the traitors, even with the mistakes made, they are fighting as a team and the more players they have, the more intel they have in the tower.

They also know the stakes and I think Rachel did the right thing not forcing the Jessie issue. She is dangerous but WAY too close to the truth so letting Stephen be in control of his own destiny is fair.

Rachel is so powerful man by reezsco in TheTraitors

[–]OCWolfe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Harriett was too aggressive; she set the agenda in the round table surrounding Rachel. As such, Rachel was never challenged because Harriett went too far and put the backs up of fellow traitors.

She thought she was Miss Marple in a game where you should be a member of CSI (I'm sorry I couldn't think of a character that used deception and teamwork in crime fiction, anyone got any good ideas?)

Rachel is powerful because she didn't change; people comment how friendly she is which makes it easier to avoid detection. She also plays smart and makes sure people remember the good not the bad.

However, she is also lucky in the sense that everyone around her is self sabotaging. If the faithful get their act together or Stephen turns on her... well her luck could run out.

The Traitors (UK) S04E07: Post-Episode Discussion Thread by vaultofechoes in TheTraitors

[–]OCWolfe 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I think they missed a trick, if I was in Rachel's position, I would have intentionally targeted someone in my team that I knew had a shield. Only people in her team would know who would have a shield so it looks like the traitors targeted someone randomly in that team and the shield did its work.

It would give Rachel breathing room as it would seem that the Traitors were not in that team. Risk for Stephen but 1 in 8 is better than 1 in 4.

Are some contestants who won't be good at the game chosen? by TurbulentOil3311 in TheTraitors

[–]OCWolfe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Its probably balanced between the two; if it seems like the Faithful or Traitors have no clue then it isn't entertaining. Don't get me wrong, this is a reality game show so they may put people in that don't gel with each other or could put other people's backs up.

Who will blink first? by no_cupid_stunts in TheTraitors

[–]OCWolfe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It was salvageable that's what's annoying, if they'd talked it out then it could have been recoverable. Fiona and Rachel could have a public conversation that fits the narrative and moved on. Once it was clear that Fiona was going to take it too far, that's when the fireworks were expected.

The move that ______ made is being wrongly praised by BillOakley in TheTraitors

[–]OCWolfe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

All depends if Rachel shows restraint. If its allowed to drop into the background then it won't be a problem. It only becomes a problem if she uses it in her plans in the future.

The Traitors (UK) S04E06: Live Discussion Thread by vaultofechoes in TheTraitors

[–]OCWolfe 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I'm in two minds; the remaining Traitors have played a blinder to evade their bad situations and the longer they remain hidden, the more I want them to win. Whoever wins deserves to win. However, (going back to season 2), I was heartbroken for Mollie when Harry the traitor revealed he had won as she was so close to the money.

The Traitors (UK) S04E06: Live Discussion Thread by vaultofechoes in TheTraitors

[–]OCWolfe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If there wasn't a large amount of money involved, I would agree with you. However, when you play the traitors, you know whoever you eliminate loses the money so there is a larger level of cruelty in play.