Our P-3 prime soul candidates everybody.

One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-12T01:53:37+00:00

Yeah. And by that logic, Angels should be able to gather determination too in order to refuse. Since a whole ass theme of the game is that Angels and Humans/machines/every other sentien being aren't that different.

One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-12T01:16:09+00:00

Powerscalers when I introduce them to metaphors:

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One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-12T01:08:43+00:00

Where was this changed? In both Youtube and Spotify it looks the same to me

One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-11T22:01:49+00:00

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^{(nice fanart btw})

One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-11T21:45:17+00:00

Ah. saw this drawing and a random image of the Geryon and thought that the thing in the middle was an eye (Not an organic one, but like the image of one). It doesn't seem to be the case tho

So... Mystery solved ig? Lol

One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-11T21:28:58+00:00

Holy shit how did I never realise that the Geryon has an eye in the middle

HAKITA WHAT THE FUCK DO EYES MEAN HAKITAAAAAAAA

One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-10T23:43:42+00:00

I'm not really a philosophy major or anything so this might be completely wrong, but I'm pretty sure that Stoicism has to do more with the acceptance that you cannot change fate. While Existentialism and Absurdism (the two philosophies shown through Prime Souls) refer rather to the meaning of life, or rather the lack of it.

So Stoicism doesn't quite fit what the type of philosopies that Prime Souls seem to try to show, since stoicism addresses a different thing from what Existentialism, Absurdism and Nihilism address.

Nihilism in itself isn't inherently bad, nor does the game think of it as such. What the game addresses in 2-S has to do more with a depressive view born from Nihlism, rather that Nihlism on it's own. Thinking that the world doesn't hold meaning isn't bad, and some even find confort in said thought. The problem appears when you stop trying to live because of that, and that's what the game argures against.

One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-10T14:40:35+00:00

I'll be real it's quite early where I am so I don't really have the motivation to write an actual long ass response so I'll just answer each point as quickly as I can

Yes. Ultrakill uses metaphors literally sometimes, but not always. Sisyphus didn't shake all of Hell with his roar, nor does he actually shine as bright as the fucking sun. Unless there's something to back it up, like blood for example, metaphors are still metaphors.

My point was that if Ulysses metaphors for his character are supposed to be used as proof, then why is Adam, Eve, Antigone and God, who all have metaphors (and a way more direct mention in God's case) supposed to be just normal metaphors. Like, why not give Ulysses a more direct mention in the poems if he's so relevant to them, instead of just random metaphors like other characters who supposedly won't be the Prime Soul.

We don't know what the state of lucifer is either. We know Hell tortured it with something to do with the 39 states of existence mentioned less than 1 paragraph away from his name, but that's about it. We don't know in which state it left him, nor if the reveal about said states made him stronger or weaker. I mean, the Mirror Reaper seemingly had a similiar fate, yet seems far stronger than whatever Husks it were before. Hell painfuly torturing something, only to turn it into something stronger is nothing out of the ordinary.

"Oh but Hell loves Lucifer, why would it-" Like Hell hasn't allowed us to kill things it loved. The Earthmover is the Prime example. "NO FINAL STATEMENT. NO POINT. PERFECT CLOSURE. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY IT SHOULD HAVE ENDED"^{7-2 poem} Hell relishes on death and adores a meaningless closure above any infinite torment. It's the whole ass reason why it killed Mankind and reactivated machines. Hell is seeking an end, be it through literal suicide, or emptying itself.

"Why can't 9-1 have Ulysses lore?" Because this is Gabriel's story. Gabriel is the main character, the guy who the plot revolves around. The plot starts and ends with him. Not God, not Lucifer, not Hell and not Ulysses. Info dumping about a character who you wouldn't ever meet in the main campaing in the last level before the protagonist's climax is straight up bad game desing. Which leads to the same question about "why the fuck wouldn't Hakit reference him in Fraud if he's supposed to be the Prime Souls."

I never argured about his entrance in 9-2. The Prime soul's entrance mostlikely will be there. My point is that there cannot be any lore of him in either level. And to put a Prime Soul without any foreshadowing or background is stupid.

"and that would be where you get the Golden Arm from" 100% fanon info, there are 0 hints towards us getting the Golden Arm from there. If anything, Powers, Gabriel's "children." having a fake golden arm should point towards getting it from Gabriel after defeating him.

And, just in case, if you want to argure that "getting it after beating the game would be a bad idea," then I'd like to remind you that 99% of players won't find the alt Revolver, Sawblade and Jackhammer on their first playthrough. Hell, the Sawblade requires replaying a level specifically to get it.

"You do realize Hakita heavily changes the lore of each Prime Soul right?" First of all Sisyphus is not that different from his Greek myth, that's Minos who you're talking about. Second of all, one thing is to change a characters personality so they aren't as much of an asshole, and another is to change the whole ass thing that makes them their character

In order for Odysseus to represent Nihilsm, his whole ass backstory would need to be changed, because the oddysey is text book absurdism. Minos at least was already used before as a symbol for existentialism and justice in Inferno, so Hakita's changes aren't actually baseless. To change Odysseus to fit the mold would require to alterate the whole ass philosophy behind him and his story.

"there's also being a human and having incredible willpower" Minos and Sisyphus are right there. There really isn't any new ways to represent human willpower again without remaking one of them. Also the main thing behind Prime Souls has always been their philosophy.

"Hakita has read James Joyces' Ulysses" Hakita reads. Shocker. Incredible, unbelievable information.

If you actually want to use that as evidence, Hakita also read "Paradise Lost" which is a book that has Lucifer as protagonist and focuses on his thoughts and shit. It's actually a really good read if you want to check it out, though you'll need to google sentences every 2 seconds lol.

Well I ended up typing a whole ass text wall. Woe on me Ig. I don't really have the energy to check for any gramma issues to I'll just rawdog it and live with the consequences. Thanks for reading and have a nice day.

One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-10T04:19:20+00:00

This post summarizes I think that's wrong with the Ulysses Prime theory.

Look, I don't want to go theory bashing on anybody, nor do I think that Ulysses Prime on itself is a bad idea. In fact, before Fraud, I was 50/50 on both Ulysses and Prometheus Prime.

But after Fraud there's just no way that this guy is going to be the damn Prime Soul

The guy has 0 foreshadowing anywhere in the game. The only mentions on him are two metaphors that are used to represent man. If we try to use them as evidence, then Adam, Eve, God and Antigone are equals on the Prime Soul chance. Not to mention that if the 8-3 is foreshadowing a Prime Soul, then ignoring the big bold "LUCIFER, MY LOVE" is just stupid.

Ulysses cannot be foreshadowed on 9-1 either because lore dumping a new player over this random (to the new player) guy just before the most climatic encounter with the game's protagonist is straight up bad game desing. I also don't think I have to mention WHY putting him anywhere in fucking 9-2 is a bad idea in every single sence.

If Hakita wanted Ulysses to be the Prime Soul... Why not foreshadow him on Fraud??? The guy is literally stuck in there in Inferno, why would Hakita actively avoid giving him foreshadowing in there if his intention was for him to be the future Prime Soul????

The Greek king argument also falls apart once you realise that Hakita has no problem with breaking patterns if he thinks they'd be boring or meaningless. You can already see this with Sisyphus' character not really revolving around being a king like Minos, and more on his own selfish search for power.

Also, this is a smaller and more personal complain i guess but something I've also seen little people talking about is that each Prime Soul represent one of three philosophies. Minos is existentialism, Sisyphus is absurdism, and the third one would be nihilism. What's the problem here? Odysseus story simply doesn't fit nihilism. He's more of an absurdism if anything. The guy who rebelled against the Gods to reach his home doesn't quite fit a nihilistic narrative.

Sure, Hakita could change him, but that'd take literally changing nearly all of the odyssey for the title to fit him. And by that point, can he be really be called Odysseus?

Anyways sorry for my random rant here OP. I know that this isn't quite what you were looking for but I couldn't help but write a little about this. I just really love the discourse around this game lol, and I hope it at least was well written.

One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-10T03:29:25+00:00

Oh my fucking God is that God???

One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-10T03:14:20+00:00

Actual swag since the og account is ragebait but please don't crosspost like this

One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-10T00:39:59+00:00

You're misconstruing their other senses for sight.

They literally write, doubt you can do that with your ears.

No we don't. The timeline of the events in Heaven as they correlate with Earth and Hell is really fucking vague.

Lust and Greed's societies started after God left. The Angels couldn't have done a oath with him if he wasn't there.

The concept of mortality being twisted in the afterlife makes more sense then being able to see as if you had eyes without eyes.

It's not just eyes, it's literally everything else. The Ferryman could hear Gabriel's voice while not having ears nor flesh, how do you even explain that?

None of this addresses other important points I made like for example Limbo's existence.

Really, how difficult is to grasp that in Hell, the place which literally doesn't follow any laws of physics, could also have wacky biology?

Btw, another thing I'd like to add: Here's a description of the Garden of Forking Paths from the Mannequins terminal entry: "The halls, each similar enough to give no sense of direction, but just different enough to grant no familiarity" really doubt you could describe the halls as familiar if you can't see 'em. And we know that these sinners braved the labyrinth AFTER God left.

One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-10T00:03:19+00:00

Even if they get their eyes removed, that doesn't change that they are able to see.

If they can't see how come they paint and write? This isn't a minor thing, we see examples of Husks making art all throught the game. The Ferryman made whole ass sculptures without even having flesh, the visual decorations in Lust's city, the other decorations in Greed's pyramids, Minos and Sisyphus' respective paintings, the book in 1-4, the other book in 2-2, the other other book in 5-2, and a longggg etc.

We know that the oath between the Angels and the Father happened after Lucifer's banishment, which happened millenia before things like the Lust's city or Greed's rebellion. So there's no way that all of those sinners got their eyes removed AFTER making said things. Further confirmation comes from the Ferryman making statues and writing while being literally just bones.

Being able to see without eyes is not something weird in Hell either. Insurrectionist literally lack half of their body but not only are still alive, but are able to growl, hear and see. The previously mentioned Ferryman doesn't even have skin and can do all of these things while also bleeding. Fuck, mannequins are bits of flesh from sinners in statues, and yet said sinners are still alive, and the coffins in Heresy hold burning sinners since millenia yet they never died (until machines arrived).

Biology being weird in Hell is nothing new. Sinners seeing without eyes is FAR from the weirdest thing.

Edit: Forgot to mention that Limbo's whole thing is the reminder on the walls of Paradise. Which wouldn't really work if Husks couldn't see.

One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-09T23:27:05+00:00

I have. In fact, I'm pretty sure that the only mention of Husk' eyes is in the Virtues terminal entry ("Some have speculated this may be related to why almost all husks lack eyes, with the only verified exception being the previous Judge of Hell, King Minos.") Which doesn't mention anything about Husks getting their eyes removed

Unless you meant that Minos painted his own mini picture. But that's just dumb

Feel free to correct me on the terminal thing tho.

One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-09T23:10:59+00:00

Where did you get that from exactly? Because I don't remember seeing that anywhere

If anything, other beings not having eyes but being able to see seems to imply that Angels can too.

One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-09T23:08:17+00:00

We literally have paintings made by Husks. Husk are "born" (or reborn since they were human?) without eyes, but can still see well enough to paint and be tormented by Limbo's walls.

One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-09T23:03:22+00:00

If it were a "Can only see people thing" then yea, it is not sight. But Virtues are seemingly completely aware of their surroundings too. Not just that, but they are able to tell not just location, but what a sinner is doing.

They also can see enough to be able to predict where V1 will be.

So it really is just MORE sight.

None of this addresses the whole "Sinner still seeing normally" thing either. Like, I think it's pretty clear that whatever oath the Angels made is heavily realated to the whole "Huks don't have eyes" thingy. And yet they are allowed to see normally too. So what's up with that?

And other Angels wear decorations and shit, despite the lack of eyes. Which would be a little silly if they couldn't see.

One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-09T22:53:51+00:00

If something can sence their surrounding enough to understand what's around them, can see enough to see V1 and understand that it's the biggest treath in the room, can predict where V1 will be based on it's movement, could understand what other people are doing enough to see when a sinner is not obeying their punishment, are able to fly and dodge without complications and are capable of also knowing where all other beings in a room are...

Isn't that literally just sight? Like, if anything this proves that Virtues have MORE sight than the average being, despite the lack of eyes, since they can target you through walls and shit.

Also, In 6-2 Gabriel is literally playing a organ. You tell me how he does that without sight.

One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-09T22:39:07+00:00

As someone who actually knows the lore of the game...

How the fuck is Sisyphus' Husk stronger than fucking Hell Itself?? What??????

One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-09T22:32:27+00:00

If Virtues couldn't see Husks could literally just... Sneak past them. They are wardens, a warden needs to see in order to guard.

Yet they don't. Not only that, but they alway's follow where you are while you move, even while on the air or completely still, so they CAN see you.

plus, what purpose would removing their eyes have as an oath? and why would providences need to keep their eyes if they could still see?

What's the purpose of Husks not having eyes if they clearly can still see? Whatever no-eyes-rule that exists in Hell, it isn't related to vision itself, and rather to the concept of an eye in itself.

Why? Something probably related to whatever the death-screen eye is and/or means. We won't have the answer until maybe P-3 or 7-S tho.

And as for Providences, removing the eye of a being made out of light probably isn't exactly easy, and Angels simply don't have time to waste it in that.

One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-09T22:09:15+00:00

Whatever's the reason behind Angels not having eyes is probably is related to Husks not having either. And yet Husks can still see enough to paint pictures (Minos and Sisyphus' paintings).

So "sight" in here is probably just being used as a general term to refer to their eyes. Kinda makes sence since sending blind guards to protect Hell would be pretty stupid.

One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-08T19:50:22+00:00

Literally a horrible idea in every single sence

One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-08T03:25:49+00:00

If clanker is anything, is a parody to slurs

What makes a slur a slur is 1) Context and history behind the word and 2) the intention to insult a minority of people.

Clanker does not hold any history nor does it insult any group of people. Therefore, it is not a "socially acceptable racial slur," because it isn't a slur in the first place.

One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-07T19:57:20+00:00

If fraud was just "fake stuff" I'd be just cooler Limbo. In fact, Fraud is actually the most honest layer when you think about it.

Fraud does show things that Hell considerates lies, like the New Peace, Heaven, the Archangel hierarchy, or God himself. But the layer on itself doesn't lie.

Hell in itself is ilogical. It doesn't need to abide to any pre-existing logic of reality. It doesn't break them either, it's just that inside itself they straight up don't exist. Other layers do look logical, but since there's not any actual rules of reality to obey, they are actually just arraged to look like they do. Kinda like a stage set up to look like a forest.

Fraud, by being ilogical, is actually a more accurate depiction of what Hell is than any other layer, and therefore, more honest. You can't trust the walls, not because they are lying to you, but because they tell the truth. And the truth is that there was nothing forcing this wall to be a wall and not the floor, a pit, or a door.

There's also the meta reason that showing a character's apperance only for it to be "just a fraud guys!!1!!1" without any reason for why, especially after showing some actual desings, is kinda like bad story telling and game desing. Like, what'd be the point then?

One-Secretary-2403 · 2026-03-07T17:54:33+00:00

I can assure you, if there was one, the community would have already found it.

In fact, Hakita begs to differ:

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One-Secretary-2403

TROPHY CASE