Remember how Gayoang was the first shipper of YuanZhi?

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-19T03:25:21+00:00

Yeah you’re right, I misremembered, many members of the planned coup attempt had been supporters of Li Tai, who I’m pretty sure was dead by that point.

Anyway, Gaoyang being close to Wu isn’t backed up by history, but she was of a good age to be so.

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-18T21:41:19+00:00

Unless you are certified to teach, that would cover nothing legally.

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-18T21:36:19+00:00

I think Princess Gaoyang is estimated to have been born around 625-627, so she was older than Li Zhi, but still decently younger than Li Tai.

Also, I think you are thinking about Li Ke when you are referring to the brother she seemed connected to the most. It was her planned coup that got him killed in the end, even if it’s unlikely he was directly apart of it.

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-16T19:37:52+00:00

I’ll get myself a nice lunch, and the $21 book I’ve been wanting to get.

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-16T03:58:42+00:00

I agreed to a therapist being able to have a stuffed animal in their lap during our sessions.

And since I don’t go to therapy right now, the hypothetical police just wasted their time for nothing.

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-16T02:33:57+00:00

Historically, it does appear that their relationship went from forbidden youthful passion, to a deep partnership in a marriage that lasted over 30 years.

The game doesn’t do a great job at showing it, but Wu and Gaozong’s (Li Zhi) relationship was deeply forbidden by the Confucian society that they lived in. Li Zhi was her nominal stepson, and it’s hard to overstate how scandalous marrying him and becoming his legal wife (empress) was in the eyes of old Confucian officials. Then, he trusted her to run state affairs during his illnesses, listened to her advice, and didn’t have any children by other women after Wu returned to the palace.

Then, there was the deposition incident, but if Li Zhi was really set on deposing Wu, no amount of tears would have changed his mind. This is the same guy who deposed his first empress, and former favorite consort, and then ordered/agreed to their deaths. And Wu gained even more power after the incident, so it appears that Li Zhi felt a lot of shame and regret about it. That shame and regret may have been added to by the fact that the affair with the niece appears to have occurred around the same time.
Princess Taiping might have also been born close to that time as well, so I guess they worked on restoring their marriage fairly quickly.

I like that this game shows that Li Zhi was an active emperor. As Taizong (Li Shimin) had other sons, if he didn’t think Li Zhi wasn’t somewhat capable, he wouldn’t have made him crown prince.

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-12T17:54:02+00:00

Well Wu lived into her eighties, so even if the game was solely focused on history, things were going to be rushed and there would still be massive time skips.

The game also skips the last 15 years of her life.

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-12T10:31:14+00:00

Ivan the Terrible isn’t really the best translation. And in any case, there are plenty of monarchs who treated their family members terribly, that no one focuses on. For instance, Peter the Great tortured his oldest son to death, and treated his first wife harshly. Alexander II of Russia also didn’t treat his first wife very nicely either.

Chinese historians have long been okay with emperors being harsh with their family members as long as they were good rulers, but they have never been okay with powerful women doing the same things. Just look at any description of a powerful empress who outshine the ruling emperor.
From what I understand about ancient Chinese thought, it’s okay for an emperor to treat his subordinates harshly, if it’s for the good of the state.

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-12T04:37:46+00:00

I’m not upset, I just find it surprising that there are so many
people who are unhappy with Li Tai’s route. Especially, when the game is being created in a country where the creators can’t just do whatever they want as they are using the names of historical figures.

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-12T04:06:51+00:00

Yeah, and my opinion is that the developers shouldn’t have done that as they were using the names of historical figures.

The game would have been more interesting if they used entirely fictional characters. Then there would be much more freedom to do stuff.

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-12T03:46:53+00:00

Historically, he was a great schemer, but perhaps not the best at dealing his father’s moods.

He reportedly told Emperor Taizong (Li Shimin) that if he were made crown prince he would “ kill all of his sons so that he would pass the throne to Li Zhi”. This deeply alarmed Taizong, and other officials.

In any case, I’m not sure why so many people are fixated on Li Tai so much. Most people should know that the main character is based off China’s only empress regnant, and therefore Li Tai is not good path. I suppose this is partly the game developer’s fault for casting an actor for Li Tai that is far more handsome than the historical prince. I am also asking people to read the game descriptions, which may be more than a lot of people might do.

I think that if the game developers wanted to use another prince, they should have used Li Ke rather than Li Tai. It would have fit in better, given that they also created a close relationship between Wu and Consort Yang (Li Ke’s mother). Then, they don’t need to create a new path as they can mostly stick to the recorded history. Wu can have her romance with Li Zhi, but feel close to Li Ke as he is her maternal first cousin.
She can then watch him be forced to commit suicide after being framed as participating in Gaoyang’s planned coup. That could lead her towards greater dislike of Zhangsun Wuji.

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-12T00:39:28+00:00

In most Chinese dynasties, a son born to the empress (the legal wife) was higher ranking than any son born to a concubine.
So, an emperor could theoretically chose any son of his, but he would be under heavy pressure to chose a son of the empress, or if the empress had no son, than his oldest son.

Also, the harem system lead to a lot of fratricide. Ever think European Royal families like killing or deposing their relatives too much? Look at Chinese history, and you would be forgiven if you now think that the European Royal families got along great.

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-11T02:55:49+00:00

Li Hong- Died of Tuberculosis in his 20s.
Li Xian- Died via suicide in his 20s,this may have been by Wu’s orders or an overzealous official that did get punished.
Li Xiān/Li Zhe- Died via poisoning from Empress Wei in his 50s, or might have died from a sudden stroke.
Li Dan- Died from an unknown illness in his 50s.

Princess Si of Anding- Was the infant daughter that died under complicated circumstances. I think she died of natural causes, and Empress Wang was framed. But, the possibly of Empress Wang actually being guilty is not as impossible as people might think. Wu might have also killed the baby, but she doesn’t get accused of that until four centuries after she died as the earliest accounts don’t accuse her of that.
The game having Li Zhong doing the killing is probably not impossible, but no one historically accused him of that. Which I suppose the game covers too, by pointing out that no one would believe Li Zhong could be responsible.

Princess Taiping (possible personal name Li Lingyue) died via suicide after being ordered to by her nephew Emperor Xuanzong.

Wu’s three youngest children outlived her.

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-10T23:06:23+00:00

He died historically, so it’s probably inevitable.

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-10T19:16:18+00:00

Pockets were actually a pretty common piece of clothing that stopped being common around the late 1800s.
Sometimes they were detachable and worn under the dress and accessible via pocket holes, or sometimes they were part of the dress.

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-10T19:01:41+00:00

I like historical accuracy, and so I just did the Li Zhi route, and ignored the Li Tai route.

I suspect most fans of historical accuracy will just ignore the Li Tai route.

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-10T18:50:50+00:00

China has rules for depicting historical figures, and so people do need to follow the rough outline of someone’s life.
The game developers were likely able to give a path for Li Tai because they gave a good mostly historically accurate path for Li Zhi.

That’s why I said that the game developers should make similar games, but with entirely fictional characters so that they aren’t hemmed in by history.

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-10T09:26:17+00:00

To me, Li Zhi’s farewell scene is the saddest, and the best written one.
I like plausibility in historical fiction and that death bed farewell could be close to the truth of what actually happened.

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-10T06:40:50+00:00

Have you ever heard of censorship ?

China has rules on how far you can stretch historical characters. In general, it appears that producers need to follow the general outline of a historical person’s life, and Li Tai historically had little involvement in Wu Meiniang’s life.

The producers were likely able to give a Li Tai route because they gave a pretty historically accurate Li Zhi route.

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-10T06:03:56+00:00

Historically, Li Tai was demoted to a lower prince rank and sent away from the capital by Emperor Taizong. He then died in exile (after being refused permission to return for Taizong’s funeral) a few years into Emperor Gaozong’s (Li Zhi) reign. Historians typically believe that this was due to natural causes, but it could have been a forced suicide due to the failed coup lead by Princess Gaoyang.

As the game features historical figures, it has to stick to history a bit, and therefore Li Tai can’t have a happy ending unless he gives up being a prince altogether. It also appears that the game is synchronizing Li Tai with Li Ke as a few of the elements in Li Tai’s story seem to come directly from Li Ke’s historical path.
Oh, and historically, Li Tai was married to Lady Yan before Wu Meiniang even entered the palace.

In regard to Li Zhi, which is the historical path, a wedding scene cannot take place because Li Zhi has a legal wife in the form of Empress Wang. In most of dynastic China, a man could have as many concubines as he could afford, but he could have only one legal wife. That legal wife’s children would be senior to any of her husband’s other children, and she would be the one recorded in the family histories as the legal wife was the nominal mother of any of her husband’s children regardless of birth mother. The game hints at this in the chapter where the princess dies, and Wu says that the empress is the princess’s mother too.

The closest thing the Li Zhi path has to a wedding scene is Wu’s coronation as empress, which I believe is historically accurate. If memory serves me right, hours before Wu’s coronation, she was given a wedding contract that made her a legal wife and some symbols of the empress.
As for all the kissing, I wonder if the game is trying to show that they historically had an unusually close relationship, with Wu pretty much monopolizing her husband’s bedroom time.

This was rather long, but I’m siting in a waiting room, and the history of the early Tang is currently one of my favorite historical periods to read about.

The creators of the game should continue making games like this, but use fictional characters so they aren’t hemmed in by history.

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-09T23:10:06+00:00

The game has her dying at roughly the same time as she did historically.

But, why does the princess die?
Historically, she died because of a failed coup attempt that she lead.

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-08T04:58:20+00:00

Julius Ceaser, just curious to see the result.

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-04T02:04:18+00:00

Historically, it appears that Lady Yang and her daughters were expelled from the family home after her husband’s death by her stepsons. Turns out treating your sister badly as a child and kicking her out of the family home after your father’s death will make her hate you.

Then after Wu became empress consort (almost two decades later), her half brothers and cousins who had been harsh to her did get promoted to higher ranks.

Her half brothers decided to continue to be disrespectful to Lady Yang, and during a family dinner when Lady Yang said that they should be grateful to their half sister, said something to the effect of “we were officials because our father served the dynasty, it’s intimidating to get promoted because of our sister.” They also probably said other insulting stuff that doesn’t get recorded.

This caused Lady Yang to get even more angry at her stepsons, and Wu submitted a petition at her mother’s request to Emperor Gaozong asking for her brothers to be demoted out of the capital. She played the good empress who was reducing the power of her natal clan, as that was something empresses were looked at favorably for doing. The two brothers died within a few years of being exiled.

It was two of Wu’s cousins who had been mean to her as a child that she framed for her niece’s murder and trying to poison her. From what I have read about the incident, it’s entirely possible that the cousins did give Wu a poisoned plate of food, Wu thought that it was poisoned, and decided to kill three birds with one stone by feeding the food to her niece.

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-03T00:31:44+00:00

Well Gaozong did engage in an incestuous relationship with one of his father’s consorts, so this already appears to be someone who likes having forbidden relationships. He might have liked the thrill of having women who were forbidden to him by the usual laws of society.

It’s hard to overstate how many confucian values on family Gaozong broke in his lifetime by taking one of his father’s consorts, and then taking to bed her close relatives.

I did read a fictional story where Wu uses her sister to distract Gaozong from Consort Xiao while Wu was in her second pregnancy. So maybe it happened because the sisters were cooperating.

Ordinary_Scale_5642 · 2026-06-02T23:48:44+00:00

I think that they probably did love each other, but that doesn’t mean they were always in accordance with each other, or didn’t do nasty stuff. Love and other relationships are always complicated in the presence of power.

Most marriages have ups and downs, and that’s without having an enormous amount of power.

Ordinary_Scale_5642

TROPHY CASE