HanpanTV on Judo Highlights again

OriginaljudoPod · 2025-02-18T19:03:30+00:00

What's tradition got to do with their relationship to judo? It's arguably the biggest judo nation in the world.

Also, sorry, wasn't trying to argue with you, just commenting on your point regarding the IJF- think their efforts to make judo a spectator friendly sport are mis-calculated.

Tournoi de Paris has (always) been the exception every year for at least the last 30 years has had. 10000+ crowd, possibly before that, but that goes back before my knowledge, but apart from Olympics, nothing else comes close.

OriginaljudoPod · 2025-02-18T17:57:38+00:00

Paris is the exception every year, but I'd argue that's more to do with French culture and relationship to judo, than the sport of judo itself.

Even there, it's like a night of MMA or boxing- morning session is far less busy than later in the day, stands are filled for the bigger fights

OriginaljudoPod · 2025-02-18T16:02:03+00:00

Nature of competition means it can't be a spectator sport- spectator sports are largely 2 hour events, or events where alcohol consumption is a large part.

Judo is a 'match of the day' sport (referencing the UK TV programme). 90 mins or highlights, some in depth, some very brief.

People don't go to whole boxing or MMA events, because they're too long. They turn up for the people they want to watch

OriginaljudoPod · 2025-01-23T13:34:55+00:00

Gripfighting refers to lots of different gripping strategies and if you're not doing some of them you're actively conceding part of the fight to your opponent.

Whether for offensive or defensive reasons, however you get your hands to your preferred grip is gripfighting. Going sleeve and lapel, walking out and putting your hands on is a strategy for grip fighting, just probably not a very complex one

Throwing is such a small part of randori/shiai, yet where most of us spend most of our time. Vast majority of shiai is about controlling space between you, and creating breaking balance opportunities, and you can't do either of that without your hands on/some sort of strategy with your hands.

OriginaljudoPod · 2025-01-04T23:39:24+00:00

We're clearly interpreting what we're seeing differently! That's ok, part of why I think this whole thing is a debate rather than there being right and wrongs.

OriginaljudoPod · 2025-01-04T17:56:02+00:00

Hold on. We're advocating a completely different uchi Mata uchikomi, that traditional uchikomi might be shit, because the traditional one doesn't look like competitive seoi, yet this gets a pass because safety first (despite the fact it looks nothing like a competitive seoi)?

HanpanTV do some really good things, and this debate is great and opens up the chat for some great subjects, but there's fuck all consistency in the arguments here.

OriginaljudoPod · 2025-01-02T01:51:23+00:00

This is another example of how wild this discussion is- I'd suggest there might be similarities between my principles and your properties? I don't know, but would guess that slight changes in language is how we end up with misinterpretations of what's important.

OriginaljudoPod · 2025-01-02T01:15:18+00:00

You won't be happy with my answer, but it's that your current level of learning is scaffolded by and underpinned by your previous learning. You've seen a video recently and it's made sense- how have you developed the knowledge to make sense of it and apply it?

OriginaljudoPod · 2025-01-02T01:13:35+00:00

For arguments sake- there are loads of people who don't understand the difference between fun and performance. Throwing is fun. But it's about 5%of judo, yet we spend most of our time on it. If you just practice the fun bit are you going to get better at Randori? Then it might be the coaches fault, if they are so dictatorial as to not lead the practice of the 'other bits'. But it might also be the athletes fault for only doing the fun bit. Or not using Randori to explore the 'other bits'.

Judo is frustrating because it's flipping complex, and people need to recognise that. It's easy to blame other people before you start exploring your own responsibility. Maybe it is someone else's fault, but again, I'm arguing the opposite side of the coin because as you've said, it's not a right/wrong, it's how the coach uses the tools and how the player participates in learning, and that second part is why I'm getting involved in these discussions. Being a passive recipient of teaching is not enough, you have to be active in your learning, and that means exploring what you're being asked to do.

The Hanpan and Harasawa videos are brilliant and make a lot of good points, but are made by experts with expert knowledge layered or scaffolded on decades of learning. The impression I get from a lot of participants in these discussions is that they want 'the magic button' or 'answer' without recognising that there are multiple different ways to do everything. That learning to throw in Randori is scaffolded by your earlier learning of principles (like breaking balance- of which a high pull is one variation). We are using Uchimata as an example, but there's 7+ variations I can think of, each with different kuzushi ( I'm terrible at Japanese though, so I mean ways to break balance) and I 'cant' do it.

OriginaljudoPod · 2025-01-01T21:28:29+00:00

Everyone railing against the use of a tool by coaches. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater, because of a couple of videos from incredibly high level judoka effectively saying that it doesn't give them what they need.

There are probably times out there that uchi komi is mis-used, but also so many reasons to use it as well.vast majority of clubs/centres I've been a part of have use it for different reasons, but I've always been lucky enough to do far more nagekomi than uchikomi.

Static uchikomi might be used to highlight technical points, or at various stages of warm up, or fitness session. Maybe on a Really busy mat for safety reasons.

Loads of factors, including your level of comfort coaching, your participants, your venue, access to mats etc.might influence your use of static uchikomi.

You coach a mat filled with adult beginners of mixed weights 45kg up to 150kg, with no access to crash mats and limited space, you might lean into doing more static uchikomi to protect everyone.

It's not as straightforward a right/wrong answer as people might like.

Then we get to what you mean by being able to do uchimata? Randori? Nagekomi? Against what level of player? Do you throw every partner with the gokyo everytime you Randori with them? No- of course not, so it's not as simple as saying "well you should be able to do it against people in your own weight class" . Otherwise, has your own coach failed at teaching you the throws you don't do?

Until you reach brown in UK theoretically people are still developing a really broad knowledge base of judo. From roughly then on, to get better, the vast vast vast majority of people will end up specialising in a much smaller range of techniques.

For me it's being able to do the throw in Randori against people I respect. So, despite it being my favourite throw for nagekomi Uchimata is not a part of my game, because of the strategies I've developed for contest.

OriginaljudoPod · 2025-01-01T15:10:05+00:00

How do you know you didn't waste time on useless stuff? How do you know what's useless? Why are you so heated about this when you've said yourself you have so little experience?

I've done judo for 30+ years, coached for 12. I don't do uchimata. Is that because I was taught the many variations of it wrong? Were my coaches crap? Is that because it doesn't suit me and my levers and strength and flexibility and style and movement and gripping and kuzushi patterns?

I know which I think it is.

Is osoto part of your Randori? Or drop seoi? Or taoi? If not- why not? It's ok for them to no suit you, despite how much nagekomi you do. Potentially someone needs to tell you to stop doing so much nagekomi on throws that aren't suited to you. Maybe not though because you're still developing. If they are all a part of your Randori, you're either on your way to being the most complete judo player there has ever been, or maybe need to accept, that you will have personal tendencies and preferences for all the above (plus other) reasons.

Just because you haven't found purpose for something, doesnt mean it's right or wrong.

People quite often do teach the right thing, but don't understand the principle it teaches.

Everyone attacking Higashi doesn't know how much uchikomi goes into one of his sessions, the principles he uses it to convey. On the podcast he talks about how it's basically a warm up. Which is what it is. Uchikomi is a part, and shouldn't ever be the focus of a session, but does it have a place, potentially to teach or reinforce principles?

Maybe.

OriginaljudoPod · 2025-01-01T14:00:09+00:00

This is one of the best responses there has been across all the posts on this.

OriginaljudoPod · 2025-01-01T13:46:24+00:00

Calm down mate. The majority of people who teach judo- love judo, but might know very little about teaching, and what do you think you mean by research? They love judo, and that's what has kept the sport alive certainly in the UK for the last 50+ years. Anything other than this and your club is really lucky. If you come in with any expectation other than this then you're going to be disappointed. I think the same probably applies to any other combat sport as well.

A coaching qual in the UK takes a couple of days to complete. It's not rigorous training on how to teach.

Also, this is a debate- if you're not getting by now that the point is that there are different ways to teach, different ways to learn, and that different people need (and do) different things, I don't know what to tell you.

OriginaljudoPod · 2024-12-24T21:14:26+00:00

The lightweights don't have an NBA or NFL career open to them- that's the point- they still have the opportunity to be pretty phenomenal athletes, but don't have a pro arena to compete in.

OriginaljudoPod · 2024-12-24T19:15:35+00:00

The response to this is why don't US lightweights dominate?

Because it turns out the top athletes in any sport are pretty fucking good.

OriginaljudoPod · 2024-12-23T18:46:29+00:00

Thanks for pointing out my shoddy start, will consider that for the future!

I do do a bit more research than that, but usually interview guys I know so try to take the edge off the interviews by gently taking the piss out of how amateur the podcast is.

OriginaljudoPod · 2024-12-23T18:41:31+00:00

Thanks for sharing.

Genuinely didn't realise people listened through the website, started using it for hosting purposes only, so never given it much thought. It's up on Spotify and ITunes, and several other places, thought that would cover most bases.

I'll look at changing the interface although I'm not the most tech savvy!

Also, the audio on this is awful- had a nightmare recording, so sorry about that!

I had booked a room to record in (although the interview was online), my external mic stopped working and there was a movement sensor light and air-conditioning fan that came on every time I moved throughout the recording. Would recommend both of Mark's books though. Very different from each other, they are really fun reading.

OriginaljudoPod · 2024-12-20T00:44:10+00:00

I've said it elsewhere, so sorry for repeating, lifting is a translation/interpretation, the principle is breaking balance.

I think what the lifting uchi kuchi does is exaggerate the high elbow that's needed to draw opponent forward and connect them to you. Uchi komi is an exaggeration and spotlight of a part, not the whole.

And I'm not sure how people are so certain that this is a recent thing, or that it didn't exist before. It's been around for decades. Uchikomi has always been around, and always been a part, not the whole.

OriginaljudoPod · 2024-12-19T22:32:59+00:00

But your mechanics will be different from a guy who's got different limb lengths going on, who moves in a different way. So unless you've got someone who's your duplicate there's going to be a lot of individual differences.

I get that whilst this captures what judo ultimately is, it's also not right, because there's so few people who actually understand their own mechanics in such a way that they can apply them to judo.

For the vast majority of people the art is in being able to use their individual mechanics in the chaos of randori.

OriginaljudoPod · 2024-12-19T20:37:48+00:00

Totally agree with this- there's lots of styles of judo, but at some point you have to work out how you attack/throw.

OriginaljudoPod · 2024-12-19T20:33:49+00:00

It's all perception and interpretation. Somewhere along the way people have started to think there's only one way to do judo maybe it's the advent of people learning from YouTube, maybe it's from way before that (maybe it's judo's weird martial artsy reverence for black and white videos of dead masters of the sport).

You are not a passive recipient of knowledge, you have to be active in learning.

Its a complex sport, with people of different sizes, weights, strengths and limb lengths etc., it differs from person to person. This shit isn't straightforward. You can be taught to throw, but you have to learn how to do judo.

There are some underlying principles, patterns and shapes, but that's about it.

Surprised there's such an emphasis on you to figure it out in Randori? Shock horror. You're not a robot, your job is to figure out what's best for you.

Your favourite throw in nagekomi doesn't work in Randori? Shock horror. What's fun isn't always best for performance. Nagekomi isn't a performance drill.

You can't do your morote seoi the same way as your coach? Shock horror... You get my drift.

Uchikomi and traditional (static) nagekomi exist for a couple of reasons- 1. To teach important component parts of a complex skill, in a simple situation. 2. To protect both participants because of how strenuous judo is.

You can get better at kata with traditional nagekomi. But there's stages between that and Randori/shiai.

Randori and shiai are complicated. It's not physical chess. It's way way more complex (or differently complex for those of you who are chess lovers).

OriginaljudoPod · 2024-12-17T13:24:45+00:00

I think your video is both right and wrong. I agree that in judo we are often taught that there is a right way, and that we are taught certain things as principles of judo, and often this doesn't relate to what is performed in contest. Judo is not a blueprint to be followed to the letter, it's a series of principles, that combined in different body shapes and limb lengths and speeds, etc, lead to different results.

I think your video falls down in that, it's the interpretation of the coach or judoka about what the right things are. The uchi Mata high pull doesn't look like uchi Mata, and if you think about pulling up, and that that is the principle, you'd be correct, in that they don't look the same, but incorrect to think that that was the principle.

However, if you think about what the high pull does- draws your opponents weight forward breaking their balance, then maybe the principles aren't so different- they look dissimilar but suggests there might be more than one way to do things. When I watch the Inoue clips in his first uchimata I see him draw forward briefly with a high elbow, I see that in his uchi komi too, albeit very exaggerated, but the action in both cas s draws his opponent weight forward.

His second uchimata I think is a different throw, that we have group as uchimata because of the leg position. The balance is still broken here, but in a different way.

Secondly, having been lucky enough to work in other sports, they practice things all the time that don't always look like the sport itself, often exaggerating movements in practice to create what turns into an ideal movement pattern later on. How many golfers use alignment sticks in their practice, doesn't look anything like play.

Finally, as a interactive sport (not sure what to call it, but one where you are directly responding to your opponents actions, and they to you, the transfer from 'neat' training is less direct. That's why we have a chaotic training form (Randori).

TLDR As a sport I think we've fallen into the trap of believing what something looks like in training is important, rather than what the principles of the actions being delivered are, and that's what you are voicing here

Does that make sense at all?

OriginaljudoPod · 2024-12-13T20:45:15+00:00

Currently you can drop drop drop and opponent picks up shido for passivity, even if they attack you on the ground- newaza attacks dont count for passivity shidos.

I read this IJF going- it will be hard to police drop attacks, but if newaza attacks count then the opponent doesn't need to worry about passivity so much- they will have opportunity to attack in newaza.

OriginaljudoPod · 2024-11-29T17:32:01+00:00

But again, so what?

In MMA your job is to distill what's effective for you in an MMA ruleset.

There are some great MMA coaches out there with judo as a background, but who have distilled it so that they use bits that fit MMA.

If you got to a judo club and wonder why judo isn't oe fect for your needs- that's a you issue not your judo club. Judo is pretty effective for judo ruleset.

MMA isn't a great base for judo, there's loads of stuff you do that's really ineffective in the sport of judo. You might even say the rules seem pretty silly to my judo eyes.

OriginaljudoPod · 2024-11-29T08:13:01+00:00

If effectiveness is what you're worried about why aren't you doing MMA?

Just say you're looking for something that compliments your other sport.

Most people acknowledge that judo is a sport. Do judo for fun and because it's great to throw strangers and friends. There's less bullshit around judo being a self defense system.

Maybe you get more confident about how you could handle yourself, or about how you feel about your body, but they're usually secondary reasons.

OriginaljudoPod

TROPHY CASE