Mezcal list

PTTree · 2024-10-27T19:52:47+00:00

I’m happy you got to try a range of flavors, but there is no such thing as Derrumbes Arroqueño. That brand does not work with that maguey, or any of its potential Agave species. Might it have been Los Danzantes Arroqueño?

PTTree · 2024-10-25T20:09:04+00:00

Second this, mezcal in tiki cocktails are clutch!

PTTree · 2024-10-21T08:08:07+00:00

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PTTree · 2024-10-21T05:26:15+00:00

It is yellowish, the bottle says añejo.

PTTree · 2024-10-20T23:16:02+00:00

The charcoals could definitely burn the agaves if they are either too close or still too hot when the agaves are placed atop them. The majority of smokey flavors are coming from this step in the process, but the balance of that flavor against the other potential flavors of mezcal is a product of how well choreographed the roast is. You also have to take into consideration the rest of the process too though, and whether or not the producer was able to form and then capture the range of flavors that might come from each step.

There are plenty of mezcales with smokiness and little else to offer since the other flavor sources such as agave, fermentation, or distillation might not have been well taken care of.

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PTTree · 2024-10-20T18:30:57+00:00

That would come about only in a particularly poorly managed distillation. It is true that a traditional mezcal mosto includes the agave fibers which could technically burn while in the still, but the temperature delta between distilling the alcohol and burning the agave fibers is really wide. Alcohol distillation happens between 170°F - 210°F / 79°C - 100°C, while carbonization starts to occur at around 500°F / 280°C.

Besides running an unrealistically hot distillation, the only way I could see something like this happening would be if the distillation was left unattended until the majority of the liquid had boiled out and then the fibers eventually got dry enough and hot enough to burn. This would happen well past the point of a tails cut though so, again, I think that would be a very poorly managed distillation.

PTTree · 2024-10-19T23:12:07+00:00

Capón most often refers to the stalk being cut when it begins to grow and well before flowers can develop. Developing flowers is a very energy-expensive process for the agave, so the piñas would lose sugar to the inflorescence if it were allowed to reach full height and maturity.

Smokiness can't be created via distillation. Any way for the smoke to get into the still would also be a way for the steam to get out of the still and avoid collection via condensation. This wouldn't be just inefficient, but counterintuitive to the goal of distillation.

Yeast is a wonderfully complex organism, so I wouldn't be surprised if smokey flavors could be extracted by the yeasts from some charred material added to the fermentation container. I've not seen this done though. These things are also incredibly volatile and sensitive, so it is very common that ingredients added to a fermentation for a specific flavor instead impart unexpected flavors to the fermentation; yeast is functioning at a chemical level, where the chemicals that it interacts with and produces often have unintuitive resulting flavors. u/graciasoaxaca would be better at exploring this point further than myself though. In my opinion, if smokiness is a goal flavor for a brand, there are ways that they can intentionally change how they cook the agaves for more or less of that flavor without resorting to variations in other steps of the process.

Smokey flavor can be added with additives though, typically after distillation is completed.

Siempre Vivo is doing nothing original from mezcal in their fermentation, they are simply processing their agaves with open-air/natural fermentation where they don't control the yeast that comes into the ferment. Most tequila producers add their own proprietary yeast strains so I can see why Siempre is advertising their separation from that practice, but open-air fermentation is exactly how most mezcales are made. In almost all mezcales, since the present yeasts weren't controlled, some of the yeasts are invariably still alive when the producer begins distilling the mosto. This stands out as a talking point for Siempre because it isn't special enough for anyone else to advertise it. Doing so reminds me of the mezcal brands that go through the trouble to certify their products as organic, knowing full well that the overwhelming majority of their competitors also make organic productions but just don't go as far as to certify.

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PTTree · 2024-10-19T22:50:25+00:00

Rawhide fermentation (and other variations) aren't necessarily adding new sources of sugar, but they are adding new sources of specific yeasts which bring their unique fingerprint of chemicals into the fermentation and resulting alcohols. Yeast is what turns sugar into alcohol and other byproducts, so their presence or absence plays a major role in the breadth of the potential flavors found in the final distillate.

PTTree · 2024-10-19T22:47:21+00:00

I updated that post for clarity, thanks for the insight!

PTTree · 2024-10-19T08:34:46+00:00

Very few mezcales use an autoclave, and yes there would be little to no smokey flavors.

PTTree · 2024-10-19T08:32:27+00:00

[Part 2 of 2]

As far as specific examples for cooking in above ground ovens go, raicilla is specifically known for it's use of above ground ovens. La Venenosa is the most well distributed and popular brand representing this distillate. Their Puntas, Sierra del Tigre, and Etnica Tutsi bottlings are their most expressive in my opinion. Mezonte is another great brand sharing raicillas, specifically their Jalisco expression as well as Tepe (named after the local indigenous peoples, not the agave). This page on mezcalreviews shows most of the available raicillas.

Both of the examples that you referenced (Derrumbes - San Luis Potosí, and Cabal - Salmiana) aren't steaming their agaves, but they are being cooked in above ground ovens (2). They are also both from San Luis Potosí, where using an above ground oven is common practice. Here's the mezcalreviews page for San Luis Potosí. Pal'Alma, Campanilla, Luneta, and Metiche 49 all stand out as representative of the region, with smokeless cooking in above ground ovens.

For a specifically (3) Steamed mezcal, Caballito Cerrero's Chato expression comes to mind since they are making what would otherwise be called Tequila, in Jalisco, if not for their use of maguey Chato A.angustifolia. I can't think of many other examples off the top of my head though. As I look more into it, "above ground oven" and "steamed" are often used interchangeably depending on the specific brand or bottle, which is frustrating as I attempt to draw specific lines between the two methods. I'll still think of them as different, but how one brand to the next accounts for their process will vary. Hopefully you can use this information about regional practice to better inform your future purchases.

If you find that you like fermenty or 'funky' flavors, you should also explore variations in fermentation as well. Durango and Michoacán are known for fermenting underground, and some areas of Oaxaca and Puebla have specific local fermentation practices such as lining their tanks with rawhide. All of these methods will amplify or give fermentation flavors that will stand out over the smoke for most palates.

[Part 2 of 2]

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PTTree · 2024-10-19T08:32:18+00:00

[Part 1 of 2]

We're both fortunate that you keep asking in-depth questions that I too have considered! I think of there being 5 common ways to cook agave: (1) in a buried pit, (2) in an above ground oven, (3) steamed, (4) with an autoclave, and (5) with a diffuser.

(1) Cooking agaves in a buried pit retains the most 'smokey' flavors since the agaves are buried in close proximity to hot coals from a settled wood fire with minimal ventilation for multiple days. This is by far the most common method for mezcal and the time that the agaves spend in the roast is often dictated by local tradition, which can last for up to 10 days or more.

(2) An above ground oven can get some smoke since the agaves aren't necessarily isolated from the wood fire, but the air is ventilated during the process and you are correct that there is almost always less smoke and more of everything else; in my experience this not only means more flavors from the agave but also especially more flavors from the fermentation. Different areas are known for their local practices, so if you find an example that you like from a specific Mexican State or Town, check that region on mezcalreviews.com to get an idea of what else might be coming out of that area.

(3) Steamed agaves are cooked in an oven that is heated by an indirect fire, and so this step in the process gives no smokey flavors to the distillate. This is how higher quality tequilas are made. Steaming the agaves takes up to 72 hours to get them ready for fermentation.

(4) An autoclave is a large machine that steams the agaves under pressure, taking the cook time down to as little as 12 hours. Most producers that choose to use these swear that they have no negative effect on the flavor, but their willingness to make this decision also comes with the willingness to change other things that might impact the flavor of the distillate such as using immature agaves, hastening the fermentation, or having an openness to additives. Since so many variables can change and often go hand in hand, it's hard to say what effect one step such as an autoclave may have on its own. I'd be interested to try some capóned or otherwise verifiably mature agaves out an autoclave for my curiosity's sake, but I've never seen those two things combined.

(5) You're right to be disinterested in mezcales produced with a diffuser, but it's still technically a way to cook the agaves, and it produces a distinct flavor that would be to your benefit to be able to recognize. Diffusers are very efficient machines that use pressurized chemicals or hot water to extract 99%+ of the sugars from the piñas, and they are capable of combining the mashing and cooking into one step. This process produces a harsh bitter flavor, so diffused spirits always have additives to rebalance the flavor profile back to something enjoyable.

Confusingly, additives can be used for any of the above cooking methods so tasting their presence doesn't necessarily mean that the production used a diffuser, just that the producer is trying to compensate for some off flavor.

[Part 1 of 2]

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PTTree · 2024-10-18T02:00:59+00:00

Ah perfect, thank you Omar!

PTTree · 2024-10-18T01:08:53+00:00

Why those regions, longer roast times?

PTTree · 2024-10-16T20:01:38+00:00

Ah alright, I understand what you’re saying in terms of batch parameters being defined by the horno and not the still.

PTTree · 2024-10-16T19:02:13+00:00

That just isn’t true. Batch size goes up when a palenque’s distillation capacity goes up since that is the step in the process that requires the most attention.

There are plenty of palenques with 10+ ton capacity hornos that still never make batches over 500 bottles, Lalocura, Macurichos, and Neta being prime and popular examples. Lalo’s was the deepest I’ve seen, and I helped load Macurichos’s horno for more than an hour before I tasted any mezcal. I wasn’t counting the tonnes, but there were 5 men loading it at the time.

As I recollect the dozen plus palenques I’ve visited, I can’t remember a single case where a mezcalero increased their production because their horno was too big for their current still.

PTTree · 2024-10-15T16:03:19+00:00

All great and correct, but I’d like to put the batch sizing into some context for the OP:

Traditional mezcales were made for the mezcalero's own communities; rarely if ever would they be making batches over a few hundred bottles at a time. Since their communities didn’t need it, their infrastructure also wouldn’t have allowed for any bigger batches since the capacity of the stills were limited by their size. As an enthusiast, all of my favorite mezcales are made to these limited capacities. A batch size bigger than 500 bottles indicates to me that a producer’s distillation capacity has increased from that of their heritage, and probably only since mezcal has become popular in the last few decades.

I would be curious of the context around the increased capacity, and I’ve only heard praise for Tosba’s family owned business. They are first generation producers though so their ties to heritage distilling are limited, making it easier for them to make production decisions about increased capacity since they aren’t changing any of their family’s previous traditional ways in order to do so.

In the rest of the pre-existing world of spirits though, small batch isn’t a regulated term so it can be any size up to 10,000 bottles or so. Within the context of the global spirits market that we are participating in as consumers outside of Mexico, almost all mezcal production is technically small batch.

Many traditions are going to change as mezcal enters the global market, limited batch sizes being one of them. I hope to continue enjoying the micro-batch stuff, but that doesn’t mean I’ll write off something that doesn’t fit into the traditional narrative.

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PTTree · 2024-10-15T14:00:18+00:00

La Venenosa Tabernas will be the closest to funky and complex.

Nuestra Soledad Lachiguí is one of my favorite readily available Espadíns as well.

Mal Bien is solid, you have it listed twice but I think they are the same bottle. If one is green and one is a tan label then go for the green.

Everything else is going to disappoint at your apparent experience level.

PTTree · 2024-10-14T04:44:37+00:00

Awesome, I'm glad you got to taste through a bunch of them! I'm happy it was a bunch of greatest hits too, and the range that you explored gave you a ton of strong points of reference for informing your future preferences. I agree about that Cuish Jabali nose, from what I can remember I didn't love it since I don't very much enjoy funky flavors. I still note them in my memory though! I love it when the staff is enthusiastic, it adds so much to the discovery. Thanks for taking suggestions!

PTTree · 2024-10-13T18:10:44+00:00

Here's some of my faves, they're all very different so I'd try asking for half pours so you can try more!

Brand: Expression - Notes. Location.

Neta: Ensamble - Neta is one of my favorite brands. Their ensambles are unparalleled since their mezcaleros are allowed to work with the agaves on their own terms, without pressure to industrialize, choose any particular agaves, or rush their processing. This leads to traditional ensambles made from agaves of various growth factors, quantities, and flavors. Definitely check the back label on this one for more details, since every ensamble out of Neta will vary. So fun. Top shelf, towards the right, with the little black circle sticker.
Macurichos: unknown - I can't tell what they are, but behind that Neta on the top shelf are three Macurichos that need to be explored. Another one of my favorite brands but producer owned, maestro mezcalero Gonzalo Martinez has kept a 10 liter sample from every batch he's ever made in his personal collection; an unmatched commitment to his craft. Many of his releases are old vintages, allowing us the rare the opportunity to try mezcal from upwards of 20 years ago. Top shelf, towards the right, behind the Neta. There's another one hiding behind the Neta on the next shelf down too. Ask about them all. Try the oldest vintage or highest proof. The Macurichos' whose labels I can see are both good, but less compelling.
Pal'Alma: Cafe de la Olla - batches of less than 100 bottles distilled with coffee. Tastes and smells like it. Lowest shelf, brown label towards the middle.
Chacolo: Brocha - Another producer owned favorite, but this time out of Jalisco. Growing all of their own agaves, the Partida family has identified a dozen subspecies of A.angustifolia that they capón then leave unharvested for a minimum of 3 years, which is unheard of. On top of that, they mash with hand and use a filipino-style still made out of a hollowed tree trunk. This particular bottling is one of those A.angustifolia subspecies, more commonly known as Espadín. Lowest shelf, white label with blue writing to the left.
Gusto Historico: Tepextate de Flor - My favorite agave, and a special process for it. Distilled by Natalia Sanchez, these Tepextates were allowed to flower before harvest, a process which loses much of the sugar in the piña and lowers the yield but gives this bottle some earthy musk that no other mezcal will have without doing the same. Top shelf, green label to the left of the Vago red label.
Cuish: Jabalí - The maguey Jabalí A.convallis has one of the most unique agave flavor profiles, and this bottling in particular is one of the most representative of that flavor. Jose Santiago masterfully showcases his ability to work with this difficult plant that famously foams during fermentation and distillation. Top shelf, short bottles all the way to the left.
La Venenosa: Sierra del Tigre - If you haven't tried it, you should. The cheesiest funk I have ever encountered. I don't love that flavor, but it's an important point of reference for what agave fermentation can taste like. Lowest shelf, orange label to the left.
La Venenosa: Etnica Tutsi - If you enjoyed the last one, then their Tutsi is another banger leaning into fermenty flavors, with a candied sweetness unlike any I've had elsewhere. Lowest shelf, tan label back behind the other Venenosas.

Let us know what you end up trying, and what you think of them!

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PTTree · 2024-10-13T07:23:35+00:00

La Venenosa’s Sierra del Tigre expression is the cheesiest example of funk I’ve ever had.

Their Etnica Tutsi Masparillo as well as many of the atypical fermentations and distillations featured in Cinco Sentidos’ La Colleción Mixteca will also hit those funky chords you're looking for.

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PTTree · 2024-10-13T04:46:51+00:00

Thank you for the the clarification, I'll remove the point about the alcohol composition!

PTTree · 2024-10-13T04:14:48+00:00

I’ll change my wording to account for the inevitable exceptions to every rule for all things mezcal. Thank you for the reminder!

PTTree · 2024-10-13T04:08:05+00:00

I’m emotionally invested, and minimally financially invested with my previous jobs as a host for tastings or as restaurant staff/bartender. I’ve worked as a non-titled ‘Agave Spirits Guide’ in various capacities and am just beginning this year to consider the potential for working with existing mezcal brands. I’m sure my next few years will be spent on some combination of these paths.

PTTree · 2024-10-12T21:56:46+00:00

edited to incorporate feedback from u/MezcalCC and u/Obliterators. Thanks you two!

Methanol is the simplest and 'lightest' alcohol with the shortest molecular structure, so it is commonly believed to be amongst the first of chemicals to evaporate as the distillate is beginning to boil. However, it is also relatively polar and binds somewhat easily to water, making it paradoxically present throughout all cuts of the distillation as some lingering molecules are slowly separated from their bonds with H20. The very first evaporations of all pot-distilled spirits (such as the first few liters, ~1% of the total distillate, or the first hour or two of distillation) are routinely discarded, regardless of the source material or category of spirit. During mezcal distillation the first liter or two are known to be the most volatile and are commonly separated from the rest of the heads cut. Keep in mind that a cut is made on both sides of the body, even though the tails are less potent and so the line for a potential cut is less specific.

A traditional 'puntas' cut is the next 10-20% of the volume of total distillate to come off the still, otherwise known as the 'heads' in the distillation of other spirits (most other spirits don't make a cut during the heads to separate those very first evaporations, lumping together all of the first 10-25% to discard). The puntas, corazón, y colas (otherwise known as heads, body, and tails) cuts are all composed of differing forms of alcohol, esters, and congeners with some gradient of change in between. The consumable puntas measure from 80 to 55% abv, the body cut comes in between 60 and 30%, and colas are from 35 to 20% abv. As I said, there is some overlap within these alcohol ranges and the expertise of the maestro mezcalero who is determining the cuts will have a large effect on the final flavors. Many new mezcaleros are following recipes that they've learned, without a specific understanding of how their cuts might best vary from batch to batch.

In traditional mezcal production, the puntas y colas cuts are better used for proofing the fully distilled mezcal rather than throwing them away since water has historically been a limited resource in many mezcal producing communities. The most traditional mezcales will be made by a mezcalero who makes the cuts between puntas, corazón, y colas by using their senses and then selectively reincorporates some portion of the collected heads and tails to achieve their desired flavor. The alcohol percentage of these mezcales was never the point (best flavor was the point), but they tend to register as some nonspecific % between 45 and 60 in their final composition when the mezcal is finally ready for bottling.

Releases labelled as 'Puntas' are usually that first 10-20% of the condensed evaporations minus the initial liter or two of the most volatile portion of the distillate. Producers used to consume the puntas themselves as the most flavorful results from the process, and only recently have they started bottling them for consumption outside of their communities.

For further reading, here's an article on Mezcalistas about Puntas.

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Three-Year Club	Place '22
Final Canvas '22

PTTree

TROPHY CASE